Cutting

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ElkHorn

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
211
Sorry to make so many threads, but i think this is deserving of its own.

How do you guys cut on cycle? Do you use ECA stack or clen? How big of a deficit do you run? Do you run a larger dose cycle than you would for bulking to prevent muscle loss? Any of you ever use DNP?

My gains only one month in have been pretty amazing. Hit 300 on bench today pretty easily, and i haven't been training for powerlifting at all. Thinking i can be hitting 315 in the next couple weeks. Little stronger than my best ever ~5 months ago, but i look better at 210 than i ever have hands down.

I think i should be plenty big in another month to wear it would be worthwhile to cut down a bit the last month of this cycle, and i'm interested in all the input i can get. Thanks in advance.
 
I'd hold off on cutting for a bit.

But, if you're really decided on ending your cycle with a fat loss phase, keep doses the same and drop cals slowly to recomp. Don't try to crash diet.

Dnp is great but not needed. Honestly I'd say its never needed. Clen worked for me for the last 10 or so weeks of prep. Ec works well too if appetite is a problem.
 
Probably would be better to bulk this entire cycle, still eat and train hard during your time off (to preserve gains as much as possible) and then do another cycle that is a cut right out of the gate.

I personally have the genetics to get shredded on diet alone, but at the same time I see the advantage to using cardio or drugs that allow you to eat more food while cutting. I plan to run test/tren/mast as my first cutting cycle and maybe run clen, but I'm scared of DNP.
 
Cut just like normal. I go entirely by feel now but 500 deficit is standard. Tren and T3 are your two primary cutting compounds and will strip fat faster than anything.

Clen is really just going to put an inordinate amount of strain on your heart for a negligible increase in BMR. It's best used for 3-5 days at a time to drop water for photoshoots, contests, etc IMO.

I've run DNP plenty of times but no one in the recreational world has any need to touch that compound. Getting the fat off a few weeks faster isn't worth your health. If you're competing (and actually have a shot at doing well) then it's best use is to get you from the ~6% range down to the ~4% range.
 
I honestly still have pretty decent abs at 210 right now, so i think i would be pretty damn cut at 200.

Will likely just do a cut with diet alone as i always have. I feel like my hunger is way more intense on cycle though. I read a lot of people get that from EQ.

And when i cycle off, i will still be running HGH which should help me maintain my mass and help with leaning out. Been taking 4-5iu of it per day. Definitely higher than i intended, but i wanted a true bodybuilding dose.

I honestly love PED's. Had a feeling this would happen, lol. Going to be hard to come off in another two months. I need to give it an honest shot before just saying fuck it and going on a perma-cruise though.

Definitely will stay away from DNP though. I realize the chance of an adverse reaction is likely quite low, but it still scares me. Would much rather just try trenbolone, lol.

Do you guys prefer ECA or clen? What are the pros and cons of both? Will obviously research a bit myself, but interested in your opinions specifically.
 
ElkHorn said:
I honestly still have pretty decent abs at 210 right now, so i think i would be pretty damn cut at 200.

Will likely just do a cut with diet alone as i always have. I feel like my hunger is way more intense on cycle though. I read a lot of people get that from EQ.

And when i cycle off, i will still be running HGH which should help me maintain my mass and help with leaning out. Been taking 4-5iu of it per day. Definitely higher than i intended, but i wanted a true bodybuilding dose.

I honestly love PED's. Had a feeling this would happen, lol. Going to be hard to come off in another two months. I need to give it an honest shot before just saying fuck it and going on a perma-cruise though.

Definitely will stay away from DNP though. I realize the chance of an adverse reaction is likely quite low, but it still scares me. Would much rather just try trenbolone, lol.

Do you guys prefer ECA or clen? What are the pros and cons of both? Will obviously research a bit myself, but interested in your opinions specifically.
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Other people might disagree but I've always found running GH when off cycle to be utterly pointless from the perspective of muscle growth...

It may have other benefits but on it's own (and in a low test environment) its just too weak an anabolic hormone... to me running GH without steroids is just a huge waste of money that could be better spend putting together your next cycle....or even spent on food.

As for ECA and clen one is a general beta agonist and one is specific to beta 3 IIRC (would have to look it up) but I run both. Both have quite a nasty PNS stimulation effect but more so ECA....
 
Backfromthebrink said:
Other people might disagree but I've always found running GH when off cycle to be utterly pointless from the perspective of muscle growth...

It may have other benefits but on it's own (and in a low test environment) its just too weak an anabolic hormone... to me running GH without steroids is just a huge waste of money that could be better spend putting together your next cycle....or even spent on food.

As for ECA and clen one is a general beta agonist and one is specific to beta 3 IIRC (would have to look it up) but I run both. Both have quite a nasty PNS stimulation effect but more so ECA....
Click to expand...

Same here, pointless without AAS (and lots of them)..
 
I wouldn't expect it to help me build significant mass on its own, but i was assuming it would help me hold on to what i built. Was i wrong to assume this?

Its primary use off cycle would be to help me stay lean and continue improving hair/skin quality, but helping me hold on to the gains would be a bonus.
 
Gh imo and experience is a very poor Anabolic when used solo. I think it could help create an anti catabolic environment but don't expect too much from it on its own.
 
^Id agree with that. It will help in terms of keeping fat off and skin and hair but that's about all I'd expect
 
ElkHorn said:
Sorry to make so many threads, but i think this is deserving of its own.

How do you guys cut on cycle? Do you use ECA stack or clen? How big of a deficit do you run? Do you run a larger dose cycle than you would for bulking to prevent muscle loss? Any of you ever use DNP?

My gains only one month in have been pretty amazing. Hit 300 on bench today pretty easily, and i haven't been training for powerlifting at all. Thinking i can be hitting 315 in the next couple weeks. Little stronger than my best ever ~5 months ago, but i look better at 210 than i ever have hands down.

I think i should be plenty big in another month to wear it would be worthwhile to cut down a bit the last month of this cycle, and i'm interested in all the input i can get. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Unless preparing for a comp, maximise your cycle and embrace the bloat, there is plenty of time post-cycle to manage calories and bodyfat %..
 
Serotonin101 said:
Gh imo and experience is a very poor Anabolic when used solo. I think it could help create an anti catabolic environment but don't expect too much from it on its own.
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This.

People sometimes assume GH is a potent anabolic probably due to its cost and rarity but in actuality it isn't..

Personally I've only ever got any real gains from GH when running it with insulin and a couple of grams if gear....

Half a dozen IUs of GH will do practically nothing to hold onto your post cycle gains....and it's expensive to waste like that (post it to me instead :) jk)

It's not a healthy thing to do but Ibdont come off gear. Unless I've been in hospital where I can't train and am not eating (ie not bodybuilding at all) I always am on at least my TRT script (when I bother to get it) or some black market test...minimum of 250-500mg year round and 1-2g when "on" properly..

I've just never been able to hold onto enough gains to justify cycling...plus when youve trained enhanced, drug free training teally sucks lol
 
Genetic Freak said:
Unless preparing for a comp, maximise your cycle and embrace the bloat, there is plenty of time post-cycle to manage calories and bodyfat %..
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Embrace the bloatmax :)

Right now I'm about 15% bf....16 stone and holding a load of test induced water.... generally speaking you can't cut and gain simultaneously...so as genetic freak says....do one at a time...

15%bf isn't "fat"...it's smooth but you're much stronger and my gf likes it haha!!!
 
I'm probably around 16%BF right now at 211. I honestly hate carrying this much fat, not that it is that much, but i'm a bit nuts with body image. Also, i don't want to get too fat because it will hurt how much money i make when dancing.

And the GH isn't really a strain financially for me, and the reason i got it in the first place was to help maintain lower BF and for hair and skin health. I didn't plan on it helping me with size.

Will just put off deciding for now, but i definitely want to do a gnarly cut for summer.

Some jacked 50 y/o guy walked up to me at the gym today and complimented my build and strength. I complimented his and he immediately said that he did it without anabolics or anything. He asked me if i used anything and i told him i just started using test. He then begins to ramble about how amazing trenbolone and igf-1 is lol.=D Also talked a lot about inulin. Not insulin, inulin. You guys know much about it?
 
ElkHorn said:
I'm probably around 16%BF right now at 211. I honestly hate carrying this much fat, not that it is that much, but i'm a bit nuts with body image. Also, i don't want to get too fat because it will hurt how much money i make when dancing.

And the GH isn't really a strain financially for me, and the reason i got it in the first place was to help maintain lower BF and for hair and skin health. I didn't plan on it helping me with size.

Will just put off deciding for now, but i definitely want to do a gnarly cut for summer.

Some jacked 50 y/o guy walked up to me at the gym today and complimented my build and strength. I complimented his and he immediately said that he did it without anabolics or anything. He asked me if i used anything and i told him i just started using test. He then begins to ramble about how amazing trenbolone and igf-1 is lol.=D Also talked a lot about inulin. Not insulin, inulin. You guys know much about it?
Click to expand...

Inulin is a supplement....it's a kind of "low calorie" carbohydrate supplement....nothing special.

And lol at people who feel the need to lie to you about their gear use as if saying they don't use steroids when they really do is some kind of achievement....fair enough if you have to lie to youyr wife or gf or your workmates but don't lie to other guys in the gym..

16% isn't fat at all but obviously it's not lean either....I get where you're coming from withvwanting to stay a bit leaner for your dancing....if I were you I'd may be do a cycle of cutting steroids like tren/masteron/ winstrol/propioante or similar and then when you're at the body fat you want do your bulking slowly...it isn't as efficient attaining size that way but unfortunately that's justvrhr way it is....to get bigger you need a calorie surplus and if thst surplus is only marginal then while you might not get fat, you're also restricting how much you actuslly gain....it's s bit of a catch 22
 
I see some pots mentioning/suggesting the test/tren/mast stack to cut, and while it surely is as effective at fat loss as steroids can be (except methyl tren, but nobody really wants to use that), it is probably not the safest choice for a guy on his first cycle.

To be noted also, activation of the AR in fat tissue increases the number of adrenoceptors in fat cells, leading to adrenergic stimulants being more effective at releasing triglycerides into the bloodstream.

Wouldn't moderately supraphysiological doses of AAS coupled with stims (like an EC stack) be more effective at fat loss than a TTM stack with no stims?
 
Phobos said:
I see some pots mentioning/suggesting the test/tren/mast stack to cut, and while it surely is as effective at fat loss as steroids can be (except methyl tren, but nobody really wants to use that), it is probably not the safest choice for a guy on his first cycle.

To be noted also, activation of the AR in fat tissue increases the number of adrenoceptors in fat cells, leading to adrenergic stimulants being more effective at releasing triglycerides into the bloodstream.

Wouldn't moderately supraphysiological doses of AAS coupled with stims (like an EC stack) be more effective at fat loss than a TTM stack with no stims?
Click to expand...

Exactly this. Gear never really helped me cut, it just helped retain tissue. The stims like clen and ec did the heavy lifting.
 
I'm gonna say fuck that haha. Stims will never in a million years come close to the way tren will strip fat off your body.

Cutting is about caloric deficit, however you create it. Realistically, looking at literature, stims (if abusing) aren't going to get you above a 10% increase in BMR. Not counting T3/DNP here
 
Tren will increase your BMR a lot, yes, and will retain and probably increase your mass a bit even on a deficit, unless you are very close to your maximum development while using steroids.
But tren will basically do a recomp meaning more muscle less fat, which might be undesirable in some cases, in instance if one wants to just loose fat to keep a certain appearance, or to get in a specific weight class for a competition.

And ofcourse cutting is about caloric deficit, but AAS while cutting are needed first and foremost to prevent the loss of any lean mass, and then to directly help with shedding fat and preventing new fat deposit as well as raising BMR.

As I said in my previous post, AAS will increase the adrenoceptors in fat cells making stims more efficient at shedding fat, so as often happens with PED stacks, the right combos will allow for smaller dosages of each compound and hopefully less side effects.

On that note, if using stims, Ketotifen seems to help reduce or even eliminate the downregulation of adrenoceptors of the b2 class, the ones targeted by Clenbuterol and Albuterol, so that might allow a lower dose to be taken.
 
How’s albuterol for cutting? I have an albuterol inhaler that I use. Are the doses used in an inhaler going to be significant enough to aid with cutting?
 
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