Will grapefruit juice ruin dihydrocodeine effect? Difference between white or pink???

[oxyloveUK]

Seems to potentiate oxycodone and methadone from personal experience. Been drinking alot for that reason and just had some before taking 180mg dihydrocodeine but feel nothing for the first time in a few, usually comes on quick. feels too sudden for tolerance

 

[Rexeh]

How long is it since you have taken the Methadone? and please give a list of Opiates and how long you've been using them so we can help you out further.


-- Peace o/

 

[oxyloveUK]

Months since methadone. Recently lots of daily tramadol use in the last few months (never stopped being amazing) with oxycodone/morphine 2-3 times a week. last couple of weeks 40-80mg hydrocodone a day, some oxycodone (similar dose) and dihydrocodeine 120-300mg twice a week including today. The last few dihydro times felt nice (I can live with that atm) nothing like the bliss of a crushed oxycontin but suddenly after grapefruit juicing I feel nothing. I dont take 2 opioids in one day atm

 

[raphaelvize]

Grapefruit juice works great for potentiating stronger opioids like hydrocodone or oxycodone since it inhibits the cyp2d6 enzyme responsible for metabolising it therefore leading to increased concentrations in the blood. But for weak opioids such as codeine or dihydrocodeine, this method doesn't work and actually decreases the effects. This is because they are prodrugs (codeine=morphine and dihydrocodeine=dihydromorphine) and rely on cyp2d6 enzyme for conversion to active form (they are inactive themselves), this is why grapefruit juice or other cyp2d6 enzyme inhibitors don't work for codeine or dihydrocodeine.

 

[Lorne???]

^ Sorry. Dihydrocodiene is NOT A PRODRUG- it is active on it's own, and supposed to be 1.5-2x as potent as codeine, which IS a prodrug, for morphine and another active metabolite

Yes, white grapefruit juice can DRAMATICALLY INCREASE the effects of dihydrocodiene, as it has a low BA%; drink at least a liter beforehand, along with an antacid, as low stomach ph hinders opioid absorption, and it could be double the potency, and may hold a bit longer.

Wgj is more selective for 3A4 than 2D anyway; with cimetidine, which is an antacid, the effects would be further enchanced

Should be a good way to use dihydrocodiene,imo, especially w/apap

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Gains with WGJ are usually seen when it's used 18-24 hours beforehand, and then twice a day thereafter. White can sometimes contain more Bergamottin but both are usually adequate.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/558200-White-Grapefruit-Juice

Enhanced oral drug bioavailability can occur 24 hours after juice consumption.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00129784-200404050-00002

 

[wolf359loki]

This is the reason you will almost never see grapefruit juice or fruit served or even sold in hospitals. It has odd effects on many drugs from opiods to antibiotics.

 

[Lorne???]

Different juices inhibit enzymes to a different degree; white is selective for 3a4 and generally potent; although yes, most pure grapefruit juices will work; ocean spray actually stopped making pure white, and it is now a white/red blend

Don't have the link anymore, however they studied different types of grapefruit juice( like 4 kinds or so) and the effects on enzymes, and the all inhibited the p450 system to a degree, however the exact enzymes and to what degree varies among the huices; be nice to find it

Yeah though it is more effective when taken for a couple of days, although effects are obversed within 2 hours of consumption-you may need a larger dose/more juice. And it takes a fairly large amount of juice to also significantly effect the liver

 

[oxyloveUK]

Dihydrocodeine is a prodrug? its active metabolite is dihydromorphine, a slightly stronger morphine analogue. Hydrocodone (dihydrocodeinone) isn't a prodrug.

 

[Lorne???]

^ Dihydrocodiene is NOT A PRODRug; the amount of dihydromorphine produved is irrelevant; much like oxycodone is tevhnically metabolized in part, to a small portion of oxymorphone, yet it is clinically relevant

Dihydrcodiene is an actieve Mu opioid agonist in it?s own, again more potent than Codiene, which is a prodrug; they say it is twice as potent, although 1.5-2x is more reasonable, due to low BA%, and that fast 2D metabolizera het extra morphine, from codiene, compared to most people

If you do not trust me, take 10 or 15 minutes on google; better yet the Wikipedia page explains it, w/ references*

They have studied it, and 2D poor metabolizers have no difference w/ extensive metabolizers

And the lower BA%(20-30%, roundabout) the more dramatic the effect of inhibitors; you can easily double BA% safely, maybe more with slower elimation to boot.

If you want an altered version of the ?Super Tanuki? recipe, then ask, however you choose

 

[oxyloveUK]

Does grapefruit juice ruin prodrugs then if it inhibits metabolism and potentiates drugs that are active on their own like oxycodone? Know any other juices that inhibit the enzymes?

 

[Lorne???]

^ Well WGJ is typically s?lective for 3A4, and inhibits 2D and 1A2 to a lesser extent...

So it is complicated

However a truly selective 3a4 inhibitor should enchant? the effects, by allowing more codiene to be converted to morphine