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Opioids Why 400mg tramadol gets me buzzed for hours but 80mg hydrocodone does nothing?

O

oxyloveUK

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
264
Had lots of tramadol use recently (300-500mg a day), love it then ran out and have been using hydrocodone the last 3 days up to 80mg now which has still done nothing. Makes no sense even if cross-tolerance is the case

Hydro is meant to be 10 times stronger so in theory 80mg should have the same opioid effect as 800mg tramadol
 
Tramadol also has SNRI effects, could that be what you're missing? 500mg of Tramadol is at the top of the safe dose range and can cause a tolerance, and while 80mg of Hydrocodone is quite strong you might be trying to compare the effects of starting fresh vs a hefty tolerance now.

The best suggestion I can make is to take a break, drop your tolerance and to save your remaining Hydrocodone another day. Stay Safe and don't over do it with the Tramadol.
 
I know about tramadol seizure risk and make sure I'm careful never to go above 12 which is always fine for me, thanks though. 80mg hydro is strong so surely it should give even more of an effect as its stronger in equipotency?

A break would mean wds haha, wish I could be sedated for a few days so the tolerance goes down
 
Your not alone on that one.. :\

Why I can't tell exactly why it's happening I can tell you it's going to put a big dent in your Hydrocodone supply. Maybe taper for a bit?


Just out of curiosity, what size are your Tramadol and what does 12 equal?
 
They are 50mg so 12=600mg. Youre right about the hydro supply haha. Maybe if I chew the vicodin it will absorb better? Am thinking of using benadryl and clonazepam to sleep through the wds and using some ibuprofen/codeine which is OTC here in the UK for when it gets bad during the break :)
 
Tramadol's seizure threshold is noticable in the 400+ mg range so try taking a maximum of 400 mg, I don't know why you have now good effect from the Hydrocodone but maybe it is just that they are your first trials with a new Opiate / Opiod and the added SNRI effects from tramadol could somehow block the mu opiud receptors from taking the Hydrocodone (which IIRC gets metabolized in the liver to both norhydrocodone and hydromorphone, if I'm not correct someone please correct me on this :)). on so maybe that's what it is all about..

BTW I'll respond to your PM later oxyloveUK, now I have little time on my hands to search for the information that you requested. :)


-- Peace o/
 
Hydro is more like 5-7x as potent if you want to nitpick, although comparing Tramadol w/ other opioids is like comparing barbiturates with Valium; Tramadol is a prodrug for d-methyltramadol(m1) which is an opioid agonist, Tramadol itself has no appreciable effect at opioid receptors(well maybe at those doses) and is more of an snri; these effects come into play, especially at those doses, and also, as a prodrug, the amount of m1 that you produce could vary

So it can't really be answered and barely speculated upon

Watch out for atypical wd symptoms if the tram abuse has been heavy enough

There are inhibitors that will increase hydrocodone BA% and slow metabolism a bit; in mild wd, it would hit. Always be careful, in case that hasn't gotten across, especially w/ a weird one like Tramadol, and also, the tolerance break cause a variable drop, so low and slow; you can't really take less
 
i can't answer, but i am the same way. some of the best opiate highs i had were on tramadol. never went above 400mg cause of the seizure risk.

i'd get some insane "brain zaps" coming off em. never got that from other painkillers. be safe o/
 
Those brain zaps are from the serotonin reuptake action. They happen when you skip some SSRI doses, sometimes. No real pattern to them.

And science has no fucking clue what actually does it.
 
Thanks for mentioning about tramadol wds^ already been through it after a huge OTC supply from a summer trip to Mexico ran out (worst realization ever) and no other opioid suppressed it, never been through something that awful not even wds from methadone. Was scared of light, hallucinating, panic attacks and basically going crazy. It's a great reason why doctors shouldnt start putting people on tramadol as an alternative to oxy/morphine/hydrocodone etc as well as the seizure risk

Never understood how the SNRI effect can make someone high as the effect users describe isnt matched with any antidepressants (that I know of)?
 
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I'm pretty sure nobody gets high off of SNRIs. But then I read enough internet comments here to know it has happened. Enough NET inhibition should make you wired, so that could be it. After a while that can effect mood in a positive way.

Tramadol's AD cousin is Effexor/venlafaxine, almost same structure, overlap of targets, but 100X less MOR agonism. Venlafaxine has a nasty withdrawal, is the common scuttlebutt of forums across the land (which will tell you that Zoloft does too). But if so, it's from something else entirely. My guess is some GABAergic thing, NMDAR activity, the one that might cause seizure risk.

I took two low dose venlafaxine once, getting it confused with something else. Felt nothing. I was hoping for a little energy, but hey, what can a meth user say for that.
 
I've found that if you're a decent metaboliser ( regular cyp2d6 allotment) that high dose tramadol use for a period of time makes hydrocodone seem dissapointing. When I've had enough trams to get a good o-desmethyltramadol build up, the high seems to have more depth in opioid activity. This is just a personal experience/opinion but I could get a very methadone like high with too much tramadol to be mentioned on a harm reduction website+ white grapefruit juice. Hydrocodone on the other hand always feels like it's just scratching the surface, no matter how much I take. It's always a weak high with hydrocodone, even high doses just seem like a more intense weak high.
 
^This explanation sounds great, nice to know I'm not alone. For me tramadol is like oxycontin (not crushed) that really hits for 12 hours rather than a weak high
 
It scares me to think about it, but many years ago back when I was a student I came accross access to an almost limitless supply of tramadol (I wont go into detail as to how that was, it came from a friend and tramadol wasn't a scheduled drug in the UK at the time). This was back in the 90s and tramadol hadn't been on the market here long and I had no clue about seizure risks etc. There were 50mg capsules, 200mg XR tablets, 50mg dispersal tablets and 50mg/ml 2ml ampules.

Anyway, as is often the case in these situations, I took more and more as tollerence grew and eventually was taking up to 50 (fifty) x 50mg caps at once (2,500 mg). Fortunately, I never suffered a seizure (god knows how) but it makes me shudder now to think about it.

It actually embarrasses me a bit to talk about it, but I was going through a very rough spot in my life and my personal safety wasn't high on my agenda at the time...

Good knows how I'm still here but I got through that time in my life somehow. I'm only mentioning it ad an example of the rediculous things we do sometimes when we lose hope in life and just don't care anymore.

It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that this was incredibly stupid of me and just because I survived it doesn't mean everyone would so please, please no one else be as stupid as I was...
 
^ Wow ��

On another note, d-methyltramadol actually has about the same binding affinity as oxycodonebdoes(oxyycodone has fairly modest binding affinity compared to the other big hitters, w/ hydromorphone being ~20x higher, and even morphine is supposed to be ~ 5x)
anyway just though that was interesting a people are comparing it to oxycodone,?although of course many would not
 
Hydrocodon sucks!!!! I only use it when I'm coming off Oxy I never get a high off them just enough to keep the w/ds away which is more often these days since Oxy is so hard to find in my neck of the woods
 
I remember hydrocodone being incredible the first times I had it while in the US, like a slightly weaker oxy
 
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