CE&P Rules / Moderation

[tathra]

A lot of ex staff over the years would have their own experience so despite many changes at all levels technically nothing actually has.

oh i was one of the many involved that got screwed by a former admin basically doing whatever he could to turn over almost the entire staff, he screwed over a lot of people and drove a lot of people away. that cant be held against anyone but him though, the current staff isnt responsible for the actions and decisions of former staff.

That way of running any kind of organisation may be the best thing to do when the scenario is a buisness providing a service to general public who come for what you advertise and then leave.

i mean, thats kinda what bluelight is. the community is the real draw here, but of the ~7.5 million registered users, only ~6k are still active. in the end its just a management style, one that was ingrained into me in the military (chain of command and all that), but i still think its the right idea. everyone on staff has their own different jobs to do, and if somebody else on staff is talking smack or challenging their decisions, well, consider what you and ebow said about that lounge post i made and you should naturally come to a conclusion whether its the proper way to do things or not.

From this conversation and a lot of others that I wish that I did not have, the conclusion drawn is bluelight mods and above management would like all members to respect and look up to you and to do that people need trust and find your influence a positive one.

well thats not the case. we're not anything special, just members that want to give back to the community by volunteering our time and efforts. we are the enforcers of the rules in our respective forums though, so if we have to tell a user that their behavior is getting to be unacceptable, its not really a suggestion, its because we dont want to be forced to infract them.

 

[zephyr]

Tath,


As you said the mods of any forum are the go to people who can answer any questions or sort out issues in their forum.


Thats all they are, they dont seem even required to be seen regularly posting just checking in mod thread or reported posts.

So can you please not skip jahs post pertaining to your forum.

In other areas such as the lounge, when a simple question re "can we talk about reddit" is asked, there have been infractions if so in the past and also no action at all.

So its not your place to respond with what that answer is . If lounge mods answer or choose to not make things clear then if its infractable or not thats loungers issue not yours.


There are other cep mods that could answer jah if they want so if not maybe its not important.

 

[phr]

so fair assumption that it wasn't very high up your list of priorities back then? the timing of some complaints is curious.

i agree that we could consider a philosophical change and be more transparent in this area. we'll discuss.

alasdair

No, it wasn?t on my priority list because I didn?t go through it and I didn?t see others go through it. Sometimes you have to experience something first hand to get it and address it. This isn?t a quality unique to just myself.

 

[zephyr]

Alasdairm you assume a lot.


I

 

[swilow]

So just to be clear what was the misogynistic phrase?

Sorry for taking so long to answer. It was Liquid basically making light of sexual assault and trying to justify trumps pussy grabbing and this was but one of a sequence of posts that seemed misogynistic. It's not a big transgression by any means but it was something like his eighth infraction so it tripped a 6 month ban.

Seriously, as I've said, you don't need to worry because most users are no way near that level of infractions.

Jah, your contributions lately have been pretty great and I hope you keep posting like that.

 

[zephyr]

Ah. So I read through the correct posts and that in itself has cost a member a 6 month ban. If I then go ibto cep and put firward my own perspective on the sane thing, would you or other mods please guide me on the right path as I would like to avoid getting bans. I cant see what was so bad with what he posted so will just post what I would anyway and hope you help out. But if infract then ill take the risk once and never post there again

 

[alasdairm]

the straw that broke the camel’s back is negligible out of context.

alasdair

 

[swilow]

Ah. So I read through the correct posts and that in itself has cost a member a 6 month ban. If I then go ibto cep and put firward my own perspective on the sane thing, would you or other mods please guide me on the right path as I would like to avoid getting bans. I cant see what was so bad with what he posted so will just post what I would anyway and hope you help out. But if infract then ill take the risk once and never post there again

We unapproved some of it so you're not getting the full picture but are reacting like you are. As Ali said, context.

But please ask us if you have genuine concerns about something you're going to post.

 

[tathra]

assuming we've satisfactorily provided answers as to what is and isnt acceptable in CEP, i think we can close this thread out.

if there's anything thats still unclear, just ask one of us or report a post that makes you go, "wait, is that allowed?", and if the lack of clarity on an issue is found to be a non-localized problem we'll put out clarifications as necessary.

 

[zephyr]

No the answers are not clear and satisfactory .


But near enough is good enough.

 

[swilow]

I agree with Tathra, it's time to let this issue rest. We've sincerely tried our best to answer all queries and I kid you not when I say we've very comprehensively discussed this behind the scenes ad nauseum

But please PM any of the mods or admin if anything else requires clarification.

 

[zephyr]

Just one thing I would hope happens:

Tathra he place to discuss mod and admin behaviour in cep bl is actually on bl not the bl fb closed page which is just a fun place for old farts to catch up.

You really should not give the impression you are representative of bl or cep as you are not. You are a mod now so you cant really speak freely and not give false impressions.

You prol mean well but please dont. Reddit sucks hard do dont make a fb page thats existed for a decade go doen that road.

Ppl can whinge but srsly you dont speak for sj or anyone else.

Non mods bitch and whatever but it doesnt mean shit, if we want to discuss things its best done here.

 

[phr]

Sorry for taking so long to answer. It was Liquid basically making light of sexual assault and trying to justify trumps pussy grabbing and this was but one of a sequence of posts that seemed misogynistic. It's not a big transgression by any means but it was something like his eighth infraction so it tripped a 6 month ban.

Seriously, as I've said, you don't need to worry because most users are no way near that level of infractions.

Jah, your contributions lately have been pretty great and I hope you keep posting like that.

Most users are not upper level, but some STAY upper level forever. That's not fair. That's very not fair from a group of people who embrace forgiveness, and are given forgiveness, from their family, friends, and just about everyone else due to their drug use and destructive behavior from addiction. America fucking loves forgiveness, why don't you guys? It blows my mind that we treat people the same way we are treated.

If it's not clear, I'm not trying to defend this Liquid guy. He seems like a major creep-oid and deserves an infraction about joking about such things under the wrong forum. So good riddance, but I still think even someone that did that should be given forgiveness down the road.

 

[Droppersneck]

Most users are not upper level, but some STAY upper level forever. That's not fair. That's very not fair from a group of people who embrace forgiveness, and are given forgiveness, from their family, friends, and just about everyone else due to their drug use and destructive behavior from addiction. America fucking loves forgiveness, why don't you guys? It blows my mind that we treat people the same way we are treated.

If it's not clear, I'm not trying to defend this Liquid guy. He seems like a major creep-oid and deserves an infraction about joking about such things under the wrong forum. So good riddance, but I still think even someone that did that should be given forgiveness down the road.

I actually agree with what you're saying here about forgiveness.

I have read all of L_Ms posts from the last three or four weeks. He's like a tame version of me that actually does his due dilligence and sources things/ backs up his claims with statistics. Coming from me this may not mean as much, but I've never seen anything even slightly egregious or infraction worthy. I suspect many of influence were getting annoyed with being proven wrong and having a well encompassing learned conservative voice willing to challenge their world view. With that said I don't think I saw the post claimed to be misogynistic, but I can assure you the referenced post would probably be about as apparent as the one that got my last infraction. The forum has become very insular and self important since the days when I contributed a lot. If you are not left leaning and want to stay in good gracious of BLUA I'd steer clear. All that said

 

[zephyr]

Does sj need guidance from tathra re his posting style or is it just droppersneck posting style school?

 

[swilow]

Most users are not upper level, but some STAY upper level forever. That's not fair. That's very not fair from a group of people who embrace forgiveness, and are given forgiveness, from their family, friends, and just about everyone else due to their drug use and destructive behavior from addiction. America fucking loves forgiveness, why don't you guys? It blows my mind that we treat people the same way we are treated.

Two things are required for forgiveness. One is contrition and the other is a demonstrable change in behaviour. Neither can be found here.

I don't think we are being too hard hearted here. The dude has pages of infractions.

 

[zephyr]

^ So has the other person who this was about originally.

 

[phr]

Two things are required for forgiveness. One is contrition and the other is a demonstrable change in behaviour. Neither can be found here.

I don't think we are being too hard hearted here. The dude has pages of infractions.

I understand. He's probably a shitstain of a human being, but you're not giving him a chance to change if he's given permanent infractions. If he racks them up, wouldn't 1-2 year long infractions be good enough? What will a permanent infraction achieve for you that a 2 year one will not? Who are we to say change isn't possible for someone?

Your reply is probably going to be... well, look at Evey. She racked them up and was an internet pest on here for years and years. But, if her infractions were permanent it would be easier to get rid of her. Sure, but it wasn't cut and dry. Why was there a 1000 post thread about her? Because people didn't agree with something. If everyone wanted her gone, they would have said so and she would have been removed earlier. But even she had defenders. She also wasn't removed by permanent infractoins. So the argument of permanent infractions getting rid of all the eveys and the tones isn't valid.

Permanent infractions don't allow for a chance to change. Similar to why people are against the death penalty. Yeah, most are going to be Ted Bundy like motherfuckers, but you know what, you're also killing innocent people because you don't always know for sure.

My point is it's just so so lazy to just give out permanent infractions. I get it, you guys aren't paid. It's annoying to deal with the same people over and over. But there are better ways.

Why were permanent infractions brought back in the first place?

 

[alasdairm]

...but I've never seen anything even slightly egregious or infraction worthy.

that's because problematic posts tend to be unapproved.

I suspect many of influence were getting annoyed with being proven wrong and having a well encompassing learned conservative voice willing to challenge their world view.

ok.

I understand. He's probably a shitstain of a human being, but you're not giving him a chance to change if he's given permanent infractions.

that's nonsense. he was given 7 chances to change before the latest infraction and chose not to. for most online discussion boards 7 chances is about 5 chances more than most problem posters get before a permaban.

you think we're way too harsh? there's an argument that, even with the move to permanent infractions, we're still too lenient.

it's telling that much of this criticism is coming from bluelighters with a long history of disruption.

alasdair

 

[zephyr]

Point to note: Decisions made by staff can cause far worse damage and disruption to bluelight than any one post or pattern of posts a single member ever can and those decisions have to always be right and seen as justified to avoid in necessary angst.


Should some things not be seen fair it should be ok to ask questions.