CE&P Rules / Moderation

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I like Ali's idea of making mod forums visible with no posting.

Quite telling that the mods won't go for that.
That idea has been floated for years and will never happen. Never.

That's why I suggested that just part of them be open. Still, I'm not holding my breath. I remember not being allowed/not supposed to publicly share why someone was banned and how long. Let that sink in so you get just how ridiculous it is.
 
This post is addressed to cep mods, senior mods that oversee cep and admin.


Swillow has mentioned he doubts my sincerity in enquiring about an infraction handed out by a staff member to liquid method.


I have some doubts about the sincerity of the intention of encouraging differing viewpoints in your forum based on a lot of exchanges between a number of people for quite a while and have noticed that is shared by other people.

I really do appreciate that cep is extremely difficult to manage due to the subject matter being polarising and the current state of the world is bringing out the worst in people.

I understand the sceptisism about this enquiry and why I am doing this.

I had concern about some decisions made about this member, hes been banned a while and honestly cant see what hes done wrong.

Hes been gone a while and came back and didnt last so it looks like hes doing nothing but trouble which is not really the case.

Theres a simple solution that might help make things a little easier to understand for people and also prevent mods from being slammed out in public.

I read the lounge guidelines just before writing this out of curiosity as casual racism is allowed there now .

The editing options used in these situations would help more than either unapproving or leaving up with no explanation of why its not allowed

I think those options are in all forums but I havent looked.

Droppersneck had the benefit of people on staff for a long time giving him nudges to stay on track and hes had a lot of previous staff educating him but maybe he still needs a lot of staff time to not be a troll.

LM has been around regularly for far less time in cep despite his join date and has not had that amount of time and effort devoted to him , unless he has people on staff that have found some connection with him and done this privately too.


He might be worth the same amount or more of your time or might not really need any more than a good example regularly, friendliness and the occasional edit.


Either way, its obviously your call if any one person is more deserved of your time than just mingling and debating with many who dont seem to need that time.

Cduggles came into bl and cep as anyone else does and looks as if shes given up her own personal fun space here to hold responsibility for everyone elses.

Personal mental escape time is valuable and thats not something to be taken for granted. Having this infraction thing and her name up on the title is pretty bad as shes new and it would have been vetter this discussed as per usual and droppersneck knows that. I relate to this from my own experience.

Infractions being overturned isnt a big deal, shit happens. Having them upheld and increased despite wanting them overturned though was not . (Dunno if you remember that one but its back in the records)

I do think this thread is just him trolling via provoking from reddit but thats how he rolls. The ignore function is great!
 
That idea has been floated for years and will never happen. Never.

That's why I suggested that just part of them be open. Still, I'm not holding my breath. I remember not being allowed/not supposed to publicly share why someone was banned and how long. Let that sink in so you get just how ridiculous it is.

I thought that was still the case.


There was a ban enquiry thread in anon for this kind of thing and bans attributed to me were posted up and were responded to by senior staff on my behalf as skl said thats the procedure and must be the case as a post I put up there in response to some weirdo saying i banned him in eadd didnt appear and i wasnt allowed to speak for myself .


I think staff who have been around on staff forever would forget how relaxing and great it is to not be accountable for every single thing you do.

All we have to do is follow the rules and we need to have them cut and dried as much as possible due to possible substance abuse, mrntal health issues and a lot of changes that arent being made public and easy to find.

Example: being called a fig or fig references could be interpreted as homophobic as could posting a picture of a fig. Today, casual racism is allowed. So casual references to homophobia is ok yeah?

So If I casually compare phr to a fig (we dont like each other ) a he could report me and id get infracted.

What about the infamous letter f?

I dont like figs much.
 
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this is a thread for clarifying the rules in CEP - whats allowed in the lounge and whats allowed in CEP are 2 entirely different things. basically, skirting the rules by finding loopholes in their written letter is tolerable in the lounge, but in CEP we look more at intent and context. most decisions, unless they're blatantly obvious violations, will be judgement calls reached by a consensus. it should be easy enough to avoid infractions though, simply remember that we're all adults in there for serious discussion, and act that way. it doesnt have to be humorless, but having fun in any way besides lively debate isnt the aim of CEP.
 
That idea has been floated for years and will never happen. Never.
what did you do to make it happen while you were an admin?

I remember not being allowed/not supposed to publicly share why someone was banned and how long. Let that sink in so you get just how ridiculous it is.
it's not ridiculous at all. imagine i'm arriving to eat dinner at a restaurant to see another customer being asked to leave by the manager and being walked out of the place. so i go up to the manager and ask him why that customer was asked to leave. if he told me that it was none of my business he'd be right. it's none of my business.

occasionally we'll elect to discuss a case because it has a broader relevance but if somebody is infracted in ce&p and that trips a ban, it's really none of your business. but i need to know so i won't be infracted? if you're concerned that something you post might net you an infraction, then run it by the forum staff first. straightforward.

alasdair
 
I read the lounge guidelines just before writing this out of curiosity as casual racism is allowed there now .
no. it's not. if you see a post which you feel exhibits it, report it and we'll take a look.

alasdair
 
It is though, I am having trouble linking as it just links the picture of the number of the post.

Its in the admit thread.


Tath said casual racism is allowed. Hes a mod. Things are changing a bit. This made sense to me , do lounge mods know this? Am i crazy ?


Ffs. Im crazy. Ali I have decided i am crazy.


I would rather not report this post as i am crazy. Oh well not like its the first episode of nutter ever.
 
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no. it's not.

please report the post and we'll review.

alasdair
 
Tath said casual racism is allowed. Hes a mod. Things are changing a bit. This made sense to me , do lounge mods know this?

Moderators can only officially speak for their own forums. This should be commonly understood.
 
It should be commonly understood that you suck Tath.

Maybe you should stop doing it then .
 
Moderators can only officially speak for their own forums. This should be commonly understood.

I would say it's commonly understood by members who have been around awhile but not by the NMIs that Swerlz is herding like cats. Those who have been in The Lounge for a bit and can read the room know the difference between good natured ribbing between members they're friendly with and hurling epithets. My guess is that new members would just see Moderator and think said person speak for the entire staff. I by no means think you meant it as "let the slurs fly!" but I don't think it was phrased as clearly as you believe it was. I briefly searched for it but didn't see the post. I think 'casual racism is fine in The Lounge' was the phrasing. Apologies if I am off by a bit there.
 
That's a pretty good point, i hadn't really considered that at the time. The very nature of the lounge is causal humor and non-serious discussion, and ancient regulars in there like you and myself remember when "lurk moar" was a common greeting. The lounge of yesterday is by no means the lounge of today though, so I'll leave it to the lounge staff's discretion on how they'd like other staff to behave to avoid such misunderstandings and the possibilty of misleading information being taken more seriously than it was meant.
 
Look. Its very difficult to figure out in cep what is in and what is out as theres people in there who have very strong opinions one way politically or about a subject that is equally as strong as the exact opposite and these viewpoints are then somehow so offensive or deemed wrong that then there are accusations of misogyny, racism or hateful against a group as per blua4.

So how does anyone who has strong views on anything going to know that they are just going to be contributing and end up banned as someone else thinks they have broken a rule?



Its safe in the middle, no viewpoint looks any better or worse than the other but having no real leaning either way no infraction makes sense.



I still dont know what is misogynistic but if its what i think it is, I posted a similar thing ages ago so whats the deal ?
 
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That's a pretty good point, i hadn't really considered that at the time. The very nature of the lounge is causal humor and non-serious discussion, and ancient regulars in there like you and myself remember when "lurk moar" was a common greeting. The lounge of yesterday is by no means the lounge of today though, so I'll leave it to the lounge staff's discretion on how they'd like other staff to behave to avoid such misunderstandings and the possibilty of misleading information being taken more seriously than it was meant.

That would have been helpful if you had have done that a bit earlier but the mods there can type so they can tell you to knock it off and actually answer some questions themselves.


Their choice if they dont so whatever
 
So how does snyone who has strong views on anything going to know that they are just going to be contributing and end up banned as someone else thinks they have broken a rule?
if you're concerned that something you post might net you an infraction, then run it by the forum staff first. straightforward.

alasdair
 
what did you do to make it happen while you were an admin?

it's not ridiculous at all. imagine i'm arriving to eat dinner at a restaurant to see another customer being asked to leave by the manager and being walked out of the place. so i go up to the manager and ask him why that customer was asked to leave. if he told me that it was none of my business he'd be right. it's none of my business.

occasionally we'll elect to discuss a case because it has a broader relevance but if somebody is infracted in ce&p and that trips a ban, it's really none of your business. but i need to know so i won't be infracted? if you're concerned that something you post might net you an infraction, then run it by the forum staff first. straightforward.

alasdair
I don?t think I did anything to further the issue. We weren?t having conversations about this specific issue and I didn?t personally experience the other side back then.

I don?t think that comparison works. This site is based on members interacting with each other, not an official site entity such as a chef or server.

When one of those members is forced to leave and can?t interact anymore I think it?s only fair for it to be out there. Call it public shaming. Call it staff transparency and accountability.

It?s not an I need to know so I don?t do it, it?s an I need to know because I think it may not be fair.
 
I don?t think I did anything to further the issue.
so fair assumption that it wasn't very high up your list of priorities back then? the timing of some complaints is curious.

i agree that we could consider a philosophical change and be more transparent in this area. we'll discuss.

alasdair
 
Keep in mind that bluelight isnt a democracy, its a harm reduction community built and maintained by its members, with all kinds different views on what's fair and just and necessary, and different ideas on everything from how policy matters should be handled to what bluelight should strive to be and the best way to achieve that. With so many many opinions and varying views it almost becomes necessary to have an executive that can say, "this is how we're doing this, full stop", regardless of if it ends up being the wrong decision. In the end there is no need to everyone to be privy to everything thats considered when the staff make a decision, especially since personal and non-public information will sometimes be factored in, particularly in this community where it was common for members, including staff, to know each other on a personal level, outside of bluelight (even if its just seemingly ordinary info like knowing that the user's public persona is a facade that differs from their real personality). There have been people in the past that used this kind of non-public information for malicious purposes to cause harm, and its probably more common to our community than others considering our subject matter and our members' the hobbies, and the sometimes detrimental effects this can have on one's personality, emotions, and judgement.

Certainly suggestions and criticisms from the community will be heard and considered based on their merits, but opening up every single decision to public criticism and debate won't really accomplish much except make things even more troublesome and difficult, in many different ways.
 
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Hi Tathra

I am well aware bl is not a democracy and any type of discussion involving suggestions or questions about decisions/actions attributed to staff are generally for show . This is normal and thats fine, mods never have to explain themselves to anyone.

In fact bl has gone to extreme lengths to protect their own when they mess up. Im sure some current staff have had to cop lots of flack when they know it wasnt their fault but thats what you have to do fot bl at all costs.

A lot of ex staff over the years would have their own experience so despite many changes at all levels technically nothing actually has.




Praise in public and criticise in private - your words. Thats whats going on here but also mod decisions are always right so I dont know why there are questions anymore

That way of running any kind of organisation may be the best thing to do when the scenario is a buisness providing a service to general public who come for what you advertise and then leave.

So with that in mind, its hard for a person who has hing around this place over many years and had the benefit of ignorance as to what its like in private.

If you are criticizing each other and not working together and find yourself cleaning up after a mess left behind by actions of former staff- what presents as the front of a well oiled machine should be absolutely perfect regardless. Since you arent then thats good news .


The days where blrs were postwhoring everywhere together are well and truly over. What this place is now is fine as it is for the people who need it and its a good distraction from life who dont need any harm reduction. But thats all it is and lifes hard as it is so i dont really care if theres spotfires any longer.




From this conversation and a lot of others that I wish that I did not have, the conclusion drawn is bluelight mods and above management would like all members to respect and look up to you and to do that people need trust and find your influence a positive one.



I suggest to you that you also assume anyone who posts here is equally as genuine and has no hidden agenda in their posts. Take at face value both ways.

Personal connections and having made outside are what makes this place hard to leave yet its going to be increasingly easier. Whats painful to leave behing are the ones who have died as their words are the only thing left behind. Youre a mod now so I guess you have lost more as you are more leaning towards the image of a websites needs than your friends. Being seen as impartial means not favouring your homies and also not targeting strangers. Infracting those you are close to would be hard but it must be done. Hopefully that wont happen as being fair would mean to not put you in that spot.


Bias works in favour sometimes and its hard to be impartial with bias.



This took hours to type so tldr


Im leaving it at that wont raise any more questions.
 
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