CE&P Rules / Moderation

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Swillow I Why did liquid method get banned?

What post was it as that would be an example of what not to do as per jahs questio.

Swillow please refer to tathra and sj and maybe they will help or also feign ignorance. Thanks.

I wont reveal private conversations as per guidelines and in respect for former friends
 
Its very hard to believe you are being genuinely inquisitive zephyr but Liquid was banned because he has accumulated heaps of infraction points. That's his doing. We just issue the points.

The post in question contained misogynistic content. I will try to find when I'm home.

ZEPHYR said:
Swillow please refer to tathra and sj and maybe they will help or also feign ignorance. Thank

I'm not sure what you mean but I've already told you that we are ALL discussing this.

I will say that these are valid questions well worth asking but you just have to give us time to answer you guys.
 
Hi swillow.

I saw someone else in cep asking why he was banned and not sure where to ask.

Noticed he banned.

Read his posts.

Saw nothing that was in any way out of the ordinary.

Hence the question.

Can you please show the post that was against the rules for same reason that jah gave as per his question.



I am sorry you are doubtful of this question.


I have a couple of reasons why I would like you to help out please.

1) His posts since last return have consistently been completely within the rules and he has not personally insulted anyone.

2) His political views are just as valid as anyones and members can not be infracted or discriminated against based on that. If they can, please correct me and explain why.

3) I cant remember if I argued on his behalf or not in tph in previous incidents. But if I did then again I am concerned he is being targeted due to his political stance and/or racial background.

4) There is method in my madness swillow.
I am wondering if there is equal amount of interest in the mysterious fate of yet another repeat ban cep poster whose ban is a mystery as he has not broken guidelines that i can see (unless its hidden).

Jahseeus: if youvare genuinely interested in the posts of cep and what is in and what is out, surely you would question every bizarre mod decision equally as the original?

Or are you white knighting for your friend, who could speak for himself and has done so all his other bans?


I dont have a copy of the post or the infraction to support my case. But swillow you do

Can you post them here please.


Misogynistic comments are rife in cep

I could send in as many as you like from many people.

I hooe someone who can do something for LM steps in.

Ill check back tomorrow abd if it helps ill report every misogynistic post I can find from everyone , but Id rather not to be honest.
 
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I am very interested to as to why LiquidMethod may have been banned. I have been somewhat busy the past few days so I haven't had a chance to notice / ask any questions. I am not in communication with that poster outside of this site, so I wasn't even aware it happened. I have been staying out of CE&P mostly due to not wanting any unwarranted infractions, so I did not notice.

But sure zeph, if you think that it was unjust, I am interested.

You have to understand that the post may have been UA'd and unfindable. The reason I am using drops as an example is because it is easily accessible.

Jah what is your ultimate motive here? I mean, if you wish to avoid infractions, don't do what droppers has done by consistently trolling bluelight.

I appreciate your contributions so please keep it up :)

Yes, mostly to avoid my own infractions. I am aware of Dropper's history. I have even at times (before understanding his mindset/pov/etc.) distrusted/hated/ignored his ideas. But he has grown on me. I also think his troll shtick has "degraded/changed" to something more akin to his actual POV.
 
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Sorry jah ill read your post when next online as I kust wanted to pop in and officially protest the infraction and ban of bluelighter Liquid Method.

Assuming of course the thread in question is the Trump Presidential Thread.


There is no way on Godd green earth that he posted anything misogynistic and I refute #4 being broken at all.

As both admin are involved in this thread and both have a history with LM, I would hope there is a person available to review this, see this is nonsense and act on his behalf.


Sorry guys, nothing personal but this is unfair and the right thing has to be done even if it aggravates staff.



post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason'

Please explain how this was broken.
 
I was trying to avoid weighing in here, as my piece has been said and my opinions on this topic are well known and widely shared by many right leaning posters in CEP. When I returned to posting in CEP a couple years ago, I was used to the lounge. Bardo was on staff at that point over seeing CEP and was, I believe, a senior moderator as well. He personally reached out to me and asked me not to "troll" the forum. I greatly respected him, and agreed, but it was with the understanding that I would still express my unpopular opinions. I think Alasdair also(I believe) around the same time made a similar request in which I felt it necessary to oblige. Since then I have always brought my genuine views and beliefs to the table, and posted in the same manner I would say them out loud irl. The one time I stepped outside of that was giving BP a hard way to go, by jokingly calling him a (*#%-boy) After I was pmed and told it was unacceptable I apologized to him and continued on. Everything I post is my genuine opinion and has been since I originally told bardo I was checking the lounge at the door.
I suspect, as with the bulk of right leaning contributors to the forum, that certain individuals in positions of power dislike our contributions message/content, and seek to suppress it with actions they might feel are their altruistic *greater* duty, after trump won. This is not unique to BL, but rather part of the larger conversation about internet censorship, of the ideas that buck the trend followed by those that control the platforms for the majority of communication on the interwebs. BLUAs general disregard in the politics forum and its ambiguities Are applied to silence those contributors thus making them want to leave the forum. With that said, I have found the majority of the moderation on BL to be fair and level headed. Alasdair and I can go back and forth via email for days, and while we know certain things push each other's buttons, at the end of the day it's enlightening to me to see his view. His and many others opinions have made me rethink my own positions in the past. I speak truthfully here, and this is why the post I was infracted for contains nothing that violates the rules. Having open dialogue and not silencing those you disagree with is more important now than ever imho
As far as liquid_method goes, after reading everyone of his well sourced intelligently thought out postings, I find him to be beyond reproach and would be very surprised to see him post anything misogynistic in nature. Rather I could see a comment being blown out of proportion or taken in an extremely sensitive way, to fit the scenario for applying a permanent infraction like the one I received to discourage his future contributions. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am here, sadly.
 
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Sorry jah ill read your post when next online as I kust wanted to pop in and officially protest the infraction and ban of bluelighter Liquid Method.

Assuming of course the thread in question is the Trump Presidential Thread.


There is no way on Godd green earth that he posted anything misogynistic and I refute #4 being broken at all.

As both admin are involved in this thread and both have a history with LM, I would hope there is a person available to review this, see this is nonsense and act on his behalf.


Sorry guys, nothing personal but this is unfair and the right thing has to be done even if it aggravates staff.



post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason'

Please explain how this was broken.

This thread isn't meant to be used to get posters out of infractions, but merely to clarify the rules. If LM thinks his infraction was unwarranted there is a place for that.
 
I am not trying to get someone out of an infraction. Im protesting it and hopefully someone impartial exists on staff that wont just pull a united front and side with staff even though they are wrong.

I dont think you are either .


Yes there is a place for that and he can appeal like anyone else.


I am wondering what constitutes a misogynistic comment just in case I accidently do the same thing as I have read what could be the thread in question and how this specific incident violates blua4.







Are you not worried about making the same mistake as LM has?


Its the same thing but hes not your personal friend right?
 
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Read my previous post. I said I am very interested. I too would like to know what's considered misogynistic.

I just found out that saying "Indians love pooping in the streets" is racially insensitive yesterday and so are pictures depicting Indians pooping in the street. Even though there is only one race (humans) and we all do things, I also like pooping in nature but I don't think it's racially insensitive if someone pointed that out.
 
^ again, in context, there's absolutely no problem with your discussing public defecation in india. but you made a joke out of it in the lounge by lazily and uncharitably characterizing the issue as "indians love pooping in the street". i think you're smart enough to know the difference.

alasdair
 
I would like to know what is the offending post re misogyny as moderator swillow explained it violated blua4. This would be interpreted by me who is a certain gender and personal experience of sexual assault which is information relevant to any input i might make.

Posts by other contributors have their own perspective of what misogyny is and what constitutes rape.

The two subjects are related but not the same thing.

I have not identified a post by the infractee that would be offensive relating to misogyny or what constitutes rape.

One thing that seems to be missed is rape is such a serious accusation that accusstions of rape that is false is damaging to a man or woman or any other gender. So cases of rape must be investigated and must not be thrown aroung willy nilly just like accusations of deserving it are.

When this post is available I will know what to avoid.
 
^ again, in context, there's absolutely no problem with your discussing public defecation in india. but you made a joke out of it in the lounge by lazily and uncharitably characterizing the issue as "indians love pooping in the street". i think you're smart enough to know the difference.

alasdair

I am a simpleton. The context of what is and what is not allowed regarding this subject matter is beyond my ability .


I did not understand what was so racist about someone eating a watermelon was either and I actually dont care that Im antisemitic by eating bacon on hannuka as Im not Jewish and bacon is actually worshipped in a real church .


Having had a person offer to help clear things up for me if there were still any questions regarding whatever the hell went on in either the whole last 16 months or just one day three years ago tell me he thinks im losing it then I suppose thats probably the case.


I just took any staff pm over the years as from all if was about bl and just fucking around personal shit if not. So the ones i got from srnior staff who are no longer with us were interpreted as actually real


In my defence, I had never been on staff before and just assumed all of you were on the same page so getting a few pms about what was the situation at the time I took at face value.


I am now aware that whatever the bizarreness in the last 14 months was was actually a mistake 3 years ago that was for one day.

So forgive me if I am either completely loopy or pretty confident im totally sane and you are a cat, I would like to just clear up to you and staff one thing.

Having all different secret squirrel hush hush things like this is really stupid and just be aware that f you are going to involve blrs who have never been on staff before into your ranks then can you make sure they are contacted by someone who is actually representing you as an organisation and just be on the same page?


The offer of a staffer to help clear anything up for me since all was covered and good yesterday just made things worse . The intent was good and no issues but this is why i stopped having private messages with staff and will never again go there.


Because according to a person who gave the impression they were speaking on all your behalf, phr was just a little fresh, no one involved is on staff anymore and holding it against current staff is unfair.

I actually dont. I just thought there were maybe a few who could have spotted i missed the memo about the close being a mistake .

So same person who may or may not still be speaking on all behalf or just his or her opinion that I am losing it.

Then same person saying he or she has no doubt I got screwed over. Well, I know I did and I really dont care, hopefully im just crazy and in a mental ward anyway.



So if current staff are upset with me, dont take it personally as you have had a fair few different people speaking on all your behalf over the 16 months or 3 years ago for one day so if you dont have a clue what Im talking about then think yourself lucky .


Internet people really do suck.
 
i am struggling to understand a lot of what you are saying here, zephyr. a lot of what you have written isn't making sense to me.

The context of what is and what is not allowed regarding this subject matter is beyond my ability .
then ask the staff for help with specific instances.

I actually dont care that Im antisemitic by eating bacon on hannuka...
simply eating bacon is not antisemitic but it's not clear to me how one 'eats' bacon on an online community so you're fine to 'eat' bacon here on any day of the year including hanukkah :)

alasdair
 
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Zephyr, at this stage I'm not really willing to derail the thread any further. But, in terms of answering your questions about Liquid Method, the below may go some way towards it.

Jah said:
I am going to use an example of an infraction that I don't feel fits the requirement for infraction. That doesn't mean it doesn't. I just want to know where to draw the line when posting in there. I have tried to post my take and get involved in discussions there, but if I am just going to get another permanent infraction because my ideas are different from the moderators (in this case cduggles) then I will refrain from posting there all together. Before I do that I would like to be given the chance to better understand the rules and moderation there.

Thanks for the query. At the very least, its given us the chance to clarify some stuff.

I'm not going to labour the point, but I thought I would share the bit that has been left out of your post:

Jah said:
This user has a long history of trolling CE&P.

That is really the simplest way of explaining this infraction. Droppersneck is a troll on Bluelight, and particularly CE&P. You cannot see this but he has one of the lengthiest histories of infractions of any user on Bluelight. This infraction is simply another one of them. Largely because of his history, it is understood by staff that Droppersneck was not trying to contribute meaningfully and sincerely to discussion, but was actually attempting to derail this thread with unwarranted references to gender stereotypes and the like. This is part of a pattern of behaviour which has been seen in Droppers for the duration of his time on this website; due to his many infractions, he now gets banned by the software we use for a longer and longer duration every time an infraction is issued against his account. Every time he returns from a ban, the same behaviour emerges again. This hasn't happened just once or twice, but over and over again. You may read his post and take it as a sincere opinion, but we don't. We can't. Hence, he received an infraction for this continued trolling and the inflammatory use of stereotypes which in and of themselves are examples of "incorrect information". This was a continuation of what we've seen Droppers do for years and years. Its that simple, and its not a big deal. :\

Its actually really easy to avoid infractions. The vast majority of users never receive them. I would daringly estimate that it is something like 1 person in 50 that receive any sort of disciplinary action- which is great, because we hate having to dish it out. I think our rules are actually pretty clear in terms of expected conduct, but to be more explicit- what we are not tolerating is anything that is discriminatory or bigoted. That sort of ideology is at odds with Bluelight's goal to reach as many drug user's as possible, from all over the globe and with all the different cultural and ideological characteristics people have. Basically, use your better judgement in deciding what you post and keep in mind what I said about Bluelight's goal. Seriously, all views are welcome and encouraged in CE&P as long as they are presented logically, credibly and reasonably. We welcome diverse opinions, as long as they do not break the rules. Debate is what we want! Don't be afraid to post in CE&P, but if you are unsure about something you are going to post, you can always PM a staff member for clarification. This will be unnecessary for most users who seem aware of what will be accepted or not but don't hesitate to PM us if you are unsure.

I hope this offers some clarity on recent matters.
 
That was actually a really good response swillow. I have a handful of George Orwell quotes I will spare you all :) . I don't think jah or any of the conservative leaning posters are going to buy it, but it is what it is. The history of whom gets infracted shows us that conservatism is trolling, which is actaully out of the national playbook. Shareblue and a few others use similar verbiage/technique. The frightful reign of droppersneck is over, and the sun shall shine again. Any conservative contributors reading I implore you to pm me so we can discuss interesting conservative things ;) Thanks for allowing this open forum and closure Alasdair, you may still have to endure a random pm from me, in the case of another presidential bet being in order. God bless America!

Droppersneck
 
Alasdairm : I guess the difficulty to understand that post would be as example to you of how clear it was to me of what bluelight expected of someone who modded the lounge at that stage considering the atmosphere at the time.


Swillow: You neglected to post the offending post re Liquid Method which you were going to post up yesterday but I wont labor the point any further. As for droppersneck: his trolling ability is pretty good innit. Have fun with that, nothings going to change so just let it go its for the best. He is going to just accuse mods of political bias and getting rid of him coz he loves trump so if his trolling is an issue theres no way you can stop him




If anything has been gained from this, its just a point of reference to some fellow anontmous internet people that yes someone tried to speak up on your behalf , would have included one or two others.



And Ive cleared things up for myself thankyou swillow.

A person who is on staff messaged me and said I got fucked over, I kinda figured that out myself. Im pretty sure others have been treated the same over the years so maybe itll be your turn in the future.
 
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That was actually a really good response swillow. I have a handful of George Orwell quotes I will spare you all :) . I don't think jah or any of the conservative leaning posters are going to buy it, but it is what it is. The history of whom gets infracted shows us that conservatism is trolling, which is actaully out of the national playbook. Shareblue and a few others use similar verbiage/technique. The frightful reign of droppersneck is over, and the sun shall shine again. Any conservative contributors reading I implore you to pm me so we can discuss interesting conservative things ;) Thanks for allowing this open forum and closure Alasdair, you may still have to endure a random pm from me, in the case of another presidential bet being in order. God bless America!

Droppersneck

Lol at signing your post

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How about making the infraction/warning forum public? That way there's more transparency and accountability.

People have infractions that they can't even click on and see what they are. You guys also never changed the text that users see when they get infracted...
 
I like Ali's idea of making mod forums visible with no posting.

Quite telling that the mods won't go for that.

6e0070eef8cacdad1a6561b999ffaeef--mod-mod-vespa.jpg
 
The reported posts and infractions sections could prolly be made read-only with no problems. It would add transparency to decisions and how they were made. I think even that would ultimately cause more problems than it would solve though. I say that from my experience working in management in general and not simply as a bl mod. The whole idea of "praise in public, criticize in private" can't exist without a place for private discussions.
 
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