• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

KraziKat's Quit II: This time it's for real!

Hey Kat, how did your business trip turn out? How's the recovery process going?

MJ is helping me so much in my recovery.

I cannot possibly agree more. I actually got my medical card last year after they expanded the program here in Illinois. I got lucky because I'm a felon and it took a good amount of jumping through hoops with a lawyer to get the right felonies expunged so I can be eligible.

I honestly wish I could still go to AA but the medical marijuana doesn't fly in the program. I've mentioned this before - benzos, suboxone, antipsychotics are all ok but my medical marijuana is unacceptable.

I recently heard of a program called High Sobriety which uses marijuana to aid recovery, I'm going to do some more research because I really miss the fellowship.
 
If you don't go in smelling like a roadkilled skunk then how will anyone know? Who knows, perhaps if you begin attending again you will find that you want a life free of the pot too? I have several friends in the fellowship who didn't get completely clean for several years. You don't have to be open with that at a meeting level if you don't want to be. I have no illusion that everyone sitting in a room has been clean as long as they claim. I only need to know where I stand. Where you stand is your business.

**EDIT

BTW if you want to know a trip that beats any psychedelic on the planet experience non-judgmental mindful awareness of the present moment in this breath and the true expanse of the beauty of reality will blast your being into a trillion stars...
 
Tombs said:
I've mentioned this before - benzos, suboxone, antipsychotics are all ok but my medical marijuana is unacceptable.

I don't want to derail Krazi's thread so I'll keep this short. I've been called out for taking benzos as prescribed as well. My personal feeling is that if a substance is not turning you into an irresponsible, unreliable fuckup, and keeps you away from the substances that do, then it's no one's business but your own. Benzos on their own don't do that to me. And as long as it keeps my anxiety in check, I won't need to self-medicate with alcohol or opiates. The only people who seem to have an issue with modern medicine are curmudgeon-y old timers. I used to get pissed off at them but those unlucky bastards had to get clean at a time when the only "treatment" was to pray and white knuckle it. They don't know any different or any better.
 
Hey Krazi-

I give you slot of credit for sticking it out w your plan. You are struggling but determined. Good work.

I also don't want to derail your thread but would like to add to aihfl's comment.

I have struggled my entire life with severe anxiety and panic attacks. I'm on Neurontin and it helps to keep these conditions manageable for me.

Without it- there wouldn't be a chance or consideration of wanting to get or stay clean. This medication was life-changing like nothing else for me. I was diagnosed w bipolar 2 about 3yrs ago. Alot of if not all of my opiate abuse has been self-medicating for these issues (and the depression).

If I'm not IV'ing heroin or abusing opiates in any ROA- that's awesome. Beyond awesome for someone that thought they'd never stop.

I agree w aih that many that "don't even take an aspirin" were from a different School of thought. And instead of being able to enjoy their lives, had to white knuckle mental disorders that caused them great suffering.

Have you ever known anyone that quit drinking/doing drugs that you wished would start again because they're so miserable? I have. I believe that's re-ferred to as a dry drunk? And rather than suggesting seeking treatment for their underlying mental problems- they're told they're not working the steps hard enough?

I don't agree w that. I like the fellowship of NA. Very much. I just don't agree with every single concept. If you need meds that give you a quality of life- I'm okay w that.
 
jdfisse-

I agree that the "best/most mind-blowing" trip, etc is from MA.

I believe it's important to add that it takes time and practice to achieve that. Learning, what I was told is bio- feedback- took practice. More than just one try. It is also guided-imagery (I think that's the term) meditation. This is an invaluable tool I learned due to excruciating, blinding and crippling pain I experience from cluster headaches. This skill helps in many areas of my life.

But it took time to master. I wasn't instantly struck w this skill. I point this out because I felt inadequate when others would talk of these things w/o adding it takes practice I thought I was incapable of achieving those states. It just takes practice - like anything else. We can all have that gift of peace of mind. <3
 
Hi Everybody! Please, keep the posts coming with no fear of derailing anything... these threads are for all of us struggling and supporting.

My trip to California was really good. But, alas, I came home and had some triggering events over the weekend – basically, I drank too much. I drank during the trip, as how can I not on a business trip when every event is alcohol-based? But the MJ really helps curb the cravings. Yesterday, I didn't have a single toke or nibble... we had my wife's entire family over, and everyone was drinking. There is also now a good amount of alcohol in the house. Sigh.

But alcohol is not what lead me here to BL, though it is an issue. My DOC is oxy, and to a lesser extent kratom. In this regard, I've been doing okay. I'm down to .5 suboxone still, and yesterday I successfully completed a "skip" day. So I last took .5 on Saturday. So far none today. I'm feeling some achiness and RLS, but I am going to see how long I can go without taking any sub. Sound like a plan?

I've been chipping at benzos at night for sleep, and I came into a few Adderall for the daytime... I don't really like it though. I realize this is all very much the same pattern of drug-seeking and doing daily, but I have to think I am getting better the further I get away from opiates and opiods. My goal in all of this is to not be physically dependent on anything, to not wake up in the middle of the night or in the AM in withdrawal, and needing some sort of fix other than coffee.

So, that's where I'm at. Let's see how long I can go without taking a crumb of sub strip. I'm at work. I'll try and stay busy and my mind occupied. Am I jonesing for a blue? Yes, of course. I can get them if I want, but I do not want them. The thought of forking over hundreds of dollars to just start from square one in 5 days does not appeal to me. However, my junkie brain is trying to trick me with the whole "switch back to short-acting opiates" in order to quit subs. Trying not to fall for that one again. Ugh!

On another note, my relationship with my wife appears on the upswing. I think I have been less moody. I have been raving about the benefits of CBD/THC, and she seems supportive in that regard. However, she doesn't "get" the pull that opioids/kratom have over me, and the same can be said for hard liquor. Alas, I'll try and abstain from alcohol tonight. Perhaps popping a 10 mg candy on my drive home will be helpful. I don't know.

Thanks to all for reading and replying. I heart you.
 
I don't want to derail Krazi's thread so I'll keep this short. I've been called out for taking benzos as prescribed as well. My personal feeling is that if a substance is not turning you into an irresponsible, unreliable fuckup, and keeps you away from the substances that do, then it's no one's business but your own. Benzos on their own don't do that to me. And as long as it keeps my anxiety in check, I won't need to self-medicate with alcohol or opiates. The only people who seem to have an issue with modern medicine are curmudgeon-y old timers. I used to get pissed off at them but those unlucky bastards had to get clean at a time when the only "treatment" was to pray and white knuckle it. They don't know any different or any better.[/COLOR]

Derail away, AI! I think about hitting meetings all the time, just haven't gone down that road as of yet... but nothing is off the table. I hope you are feeling good today.
 
I am frantically searching for some advice on what my next move should be. I am hoping one of you sub-savvy BLers can help:

I have successfully skipped 2 days of sub. My last .5 dose was Saturday, and before that was Thursday. However, last night I felt that all-too-familiar feeling of being in pretty much full-blown opiate withdrawal. Fatigue, yawning, tearing eyes and that horrible RLS and skin crawling. I resisted the urge to take more sub, nor did I take kratom, but I was on the verge. Instead, for better or worse, I used vodka and 1 mg of Xanax to knock myself out.

I feel WD symptoms upon waking. RLS, the eyes, runny nose (could be a cold), but overall craving something to relieve the discomfort.

Do I march forth and try and jump off?? No more subs and tough it out with comfort meds? Do I take .5 today? .25? Use small amount of kratom instead?

Feeling rather confused and uncomfortable. FYI, I'm just about at 1 full month of using subs to kick a 200 mg or so oxy habit / or 30 mg day kratom(4-5 years)

Please advise, sub kickers of BL!!
 
Anyone? Bueller? Well goddammit until someone replies I'll continues to pseudo-struggle. Grrr... Still haven't caved with a piece of sub or kratom yet. But the idea is still in play.

I think I'll try and do the minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour thing and see how long I could go without caving.

For anyone with sub-taper and sub quit experience, please advise on above post.
 
I don?t know why I didn?t notice this post.
I don?t think I?ve read it from start to finish. I?m sorry for that. I owe it to try to help.
I kicked subs around seven years ago after being on them off the streets for at least two years. When I jumped I was at approximately 1 mg. Way too high to jump. I did make it, although it was hell on earth for a good two weeks at least. I think it was day 16 I broke down due to no sleep, anxiety, and I remember the restless arms being torture. I had my parents come over, load my wife and kid in their sequoia and headed to rehab. On the way there my two year old at the time daughter asked where we were going. We all replied daddy has to go to work for a while. She cried and said she didn?t want her daddy to be gone.
I swear on my life, at that second something happened. It was like Jesus flipped a light switch. I felt better. Not great, but better. I told that to my parents and they thought I was chickening out. I wasn?t, and went on to the rehab. Told them my story, was Charged 800$ for an assessment, and blood pressure test to hear that whatever I had been through, the worst was over and they didn?t want me. They advised I ask my daughter for seroquil for sleep and I would be back to normalcy very soon. They were right. Four or five days later I returned to my job installing custom commercial flooring and laid one of the biggest best looking jobs I ever installed. I rode high on the pink cloud of sobriety for a lot of years after that. Where I am now is another story.
I say all this to let you know that ime sub withdrawals remained the same the entire length of the detox and then just disappeared all at one moment. If what you are going through is tolerable, I say please, push through, you have made it so far. If it?s not tolerable, take less than .25 maybe half of that tops. Some may not believe this but the entire time I was on subs (2years +)I was high from them and abusing them.they are very strong. 1-2mg a day basically kept me high for 2 years. Which scares the crap out of me because I can?t get subs to even take away withdrawals anymore. I really screwed myself up this go round. I can?t even stabilize.
Push on. I know you can do it. The shorter amount of time you spend on subs the easier it will be to stop. If you can, don?t kick the can down the road any longer. Your almost free and I promise u, that freedom, Is the best feeling I ever had.
Sending a prayer up for you.
 
I don?t know why I didn?t notice this post.
I don?t think I?ve read it from start to finish. I?m sorry for that. I owe it to try to help.
I kicked subs around seven years ago after being on them off the streets for at least two years. When I jumped I was at approximately 1 mg. Way too high to jump. I did make it, although it was hell on earth for a good two weeks at least. I think it was day 16 I broke down due to no sleep, anxiety, and I remember the restless arms being torture. I had my parents come over, load my wife and kid in their sequoia and headed to rehab. On the way there my two year old at the time daughter asked where we were going. We all replied daddy has to go to work for a while. She cried and said she didn?t want her daddy to be gone.
I swear on my life, at that second something happened. It was like Jesus flipped a light switch. I felt better. Not great, but better. I told that to my parents and they thought I was chickening out. I wasn?t, and went on to the rehab. Told them my story, was Charged 800$ for an assessment, and blood pressure test to hear that whatever I had been through, the worst was over and they didn?t want me. They advised I ask my daughter for seroquil for sleep and I would be back to normalcy very soon. They were right. Four or five days later I returned to my job installing custom commercial flooring and laid one of the biggest best looking jobs I ever installed. I rode high on the pink cloud of sobriety for a lot of years after that. Where I am now is another story.
I say all this to let you know that ime sub withdrawals remained the same the entire length of the detox and then just disappeared all at one moment. If what you are going through is tolerable, I say please, push through, you have made it so far. If it?s not tolerable, take less than .25 maybe half of that tops. Some may not believe this but the entire time I was on subs (2years +)I was high from them and abusing them.they are very strong. 1-2mg a day basically kept me high for 2 years. Which scares the crap out of me because I can?t get subs to even take away withdrawals anymore. I really screwed myself up this go round. I can?t even stabilize.
Push on. I know you can do it. The shorter amount of time you spend on subs the easier it will be to stop. If you can, don?t kick the can down the road any longer. Your almost free and I promise u, that freedom, Is the best feeling I ever had.
Sending a prayer up for you.

BeenBetter, you have brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your story, and this little push that I needed to hear. From the bottom of my heart. I am going to push on, and make it to day 4. If I have to take a crumb, so be it. But it won't be today.
 
My kids have not known a non-opiated dad, whether it's kratom or oxy.

I recall always making sure my "pill pockets" (that little, random pocket on blue jeans) were stuffed with a days supply of blues, even when racing to the hospital for the births of my kids... for anything, really. Very sad. Choking down kratom in airport bathrooms, here in my office, green powder everywhere. Forking over hundreds and hundreds of dollars at a time for a week of "relief."

BB, I am not religious, but I'm hoping and praying in the only way I know how that you can overcome the demon once again.
 
It's a snow day here in North Jersey. So I'm home with the wife and kids, holed up in the bathroom atm.

Well, I realized that I used subs (just short of a month) long enough to get hooked and physically dependent, now dealing with sub withdrawal. It sucks. But the good news is
Today is Day 4, no sub, and one month since my last oxy. Sounds good.

The bad news: since the sub WD kicked in, so did my nightime alcoholism, along with benzo use to knock out my symptoms and get sleep. Sucks.

I'm figuring I'll do my best to keep those in check, and really address them once I feel I'm clear of opiod addiction. (or run out of xanax)

More bad news: I used kratom today for the first time in awhile, maybe a week or so. I said I wouldn't, but I did. All of a sudden I just went for it, without slowing things down in my head... and now, well, I really really feel it. I feel that feeling. "That feeling I forgot", if you're into Phish. Ironically, it's from a song called Free. Ironic because that is what all this is about, me getting free from addiction.

Is this a relapse? A lapse? Am I setting myself back? If so, how bad?

I also ate 5 mg THC. So feeling that as well.

A lot going on in this thread update, so I'll close on a positive. I'm determined to not take any more subs. I should throw away the 6 or 7 or so mgs I have left. Remember, I want to be free of having to take kratom or opiates every day.
 
No subs since Saturday. I think I'm out of the woods, at least in terms of the physical ills. Kratom helped yesterday, but I have abstained today. I am considering dumping my remaining supply.

I've chipped at some Adderal today to overcome the malaise that I am feeling. This malaise is not only from opiod detox but also over-indulging in alcohol each night before bed. This. must. stop.

Day 5 no subs, now over a month no oxy. So I've got that going for me.
 
Well, today is off to an interesting start. For starters, I feel rather off at the moment. Lightheaded, a little shakey. At the office, got lots of work to do. Today is day 6 no subs, and day 2 since last time i took kratom. Also, notably, over a month since my last oxy.

I did not drink like a raging boozehound last night. I had a couple drinks, along with one of my little 5 mg THC/CBD edibles which really keeps cravings at bay. I also took .5 ambien, slept a couple hours, then another .5, then woke up around 5:30 AM. And the I went for a Jog! Yes, a jog.

Following the jog, my wife and I had a long talk... I had been wanting to open up to her for some time now. I shed a bunch of tears, told her about my plan using the suboxone and the taper, told her I want my life back, a life free of opiate and kratom addiction. How I no longer want to feel like I need a fix of any kind, how I do not want to wake up in WD, and so on. I also told her a half-truth about my pill relapse. And a little more about my struggles with vodka as well. She is unaware of my Xanax and Adderall stash which should probably stay that way.

I don't think she'll buy into the whole "comfort meds" routine, apart from CBD and MJ. However, she does know about my stash of shrooms and MDMA pills, which I seldom touch. I also have ketamine, which is something I have never even tried and not sure what to do with it or how it may help, but I had a chance to pick some up recently, and I read somewhere it may be a useful part of the toolkit for someone suffering from depression as well as opiate addiction and recovery. I may or may not be depressed, I may or may not have anxiety disorder. It's hard to know since I've been self-medicating for so long. I mean, I was pulling on my dad's liquor bottles while my family slept as a teenager.

She doesn't trust me. She really doesn't. But that's okay for now. She shouldn't. It was cathartic. I shed tears. She asked for it, and I reluctantly gave her my remaining stash of subs which she flushed down the toilet. She knows how strong and addictive they are from my first attempt to get clean almost one year ago to the date. (Hence, Krazikat's Quit II)

So, one thing for sure is there will be no more suboxone taking. That's done. I feel like I am over the hump physically. So hopefully nothing will take me by surprise. There's still the kratom... I've got bags of it. And I'm considering flushing them but haven't yet.

Does anyone know of any good movies or youtube videos that explain opiate addiction and how much of a struggle it is to non-addicts. My wife really does not get it, and it's hard for me to articulate to her what's going on when I'm so deep in the moment. I'd appreciate any recomendations.

I also told her I wanted to go to a Refuge Recovery meeting in NYS on Sunday, and she seemed supportive about making it happen. Maybe she'll do something with the kids like go snow tubing while I do that.
 
So I kind of feel horrible today, physically. At least right now. Could this still be sub WD? I'm on Day 6 after jumping at .5 mg -- Am I not out of the woods? Was on subs for one month only.
 
Krazi, have you been to a psychiatrist? Rather than trying to figure out what you may or may not need in the way of medication on your own, a psychiatrist may be able to help determine the appropriate meds for your specific situation. It may take a while as it did with me, to find a cocktail that works. As for the situation with the wife, it is difficult. My ex eventually came around and told my mother, "It's not a question of willpower" but it took a while for her to get there. I remember she only grudgingly participated in family sessions when I was in rehab the first time and even then she and the shitty therapist would gang up on me telling me I needed to move into a halfway house (never ever ever ever gonna happen). Even my mother eventually came around after regularly going to Al-Anon for a long time. I no longer got the "You could stop if you only wanted to" lectures. Actually it was more like berating. Perhaps looking for a psychologist (and I mean a real psychologist with a PhD and clinical experience in a psych hospital) might help you with any dual diagnosis issues and eventually having the issues explained to her by a credible professional might be helpful. Personally, I wish I had found my psychologist earlier because I feel for the first time I am getting help for the underlying causes of my drinking and prescription drug abuse rather than just talking about the addiction component with a therapist who has a social work background. I know you know this, but you don't want to go down the alcohol rabbit hole. Climbing out for me was way worse than kicking opiates. Way way worse.

Glad you are checking out Refuge Recovery. I was really unsure at first if I could handle the meditation with my anxiety and racing mind, but now I have come to enjoy it as a welcome break from my normal, anxiety ridden life. Some AA discussion meetings are interminable, but RR meetings always seem to fly by. I hope you get as much out of it as I do.
 
Krazi, have you been to a psychiatrist? Rather than trying to figure out what you may or may not need in the way of medication on your own, a psychiatrist may be able to help determine the appropriate meds for your specific situation. It may take a while as it did with me, to find a cocktail that works. As for the situation with the wife, it is difficult. My ex eventually came around and told my mother, "It's not a question of willpower" but it took a while for her to get there. I remember she only grudgingly participated in family sessions when I was in rehab the first time and even then she and the shitty therapist would gang up on me telling me I needed to move into a halfway house (never ever ever ever gonna happen). Even my mother eventually came around after regularly going to Al-Anon for a long time. I no longer got the "You could stop if you only wanted to" lectures. Actually it was more like berating. Perhaps looking for a psychologist (and I mean a real psychologist with a PhD and clinical experience in a psych hospital) might help you with any dual diagnosis issues and eventually having the issues explained to her by a credible professional might be helpful. Personally, I wish I had found my psychologist earlier because I feel for the first time I am getting help for the underlying causes of my drinking and prescription drug abuse rather than just talking about the addiction component with a therapist who has a social work background. I know you know this, but you don't want to go down the alcohol rabbit hole. Climbing out for me was way worse than kicking opiates. Way way worse.

Glad you are checking out Refuge Recovery. I was really unsure at first if I could handle the meditation with my anxiety and racing mind, but now I have come to enjoy it as a welcome break from my normal, anxiety ridden life. Some AA discussion meetings are interminable, but RR meetings always seem to fly by. I hope you get as much out of it as I do.

Hi ai. Thanks for sharing your story. I did go to a psychologist on 2 separate occasions, the same one, in fact. I really like him, and am considering seeking his help again. Not sure why I stopped going this last time, I guess it was because I started using again. And it was always a pain in the ass making time to go between family and work obligations. He has a PHd, and lots of experience, addiction included. I will say this though, the two times my wife sat in, it was brutal -- I just felt ganged up on!! Like you did. F that. I said never again.

I have never been on psych meds other than abusing benzos on my own. I have never been to a psychiatrist either. My doc could not prescribe. I have always been averse to it, hearing horror stories about putting on weight, no libido, kinda being depersonalized... but this time around I am not ruling it out. I just have not gone there... yet. Maybe there is a pill or combo of pills that can and will help me? Something that takes the edge craving mood-altering substances? But what is the difference between a Dr prescribed mood alterer and what I'm doing? Do they really help? Then I'd have to WD from the SSRIs or whatever they are. I don't know. I know I don't want to go down that rabbit hole you speak of though... I don't want to lose my family or my health either. I'm on shaky ground today after I though was a very positive morning in the right direction.
 
I wouldn't let anecdotes scare you into not seeing a psychiatrist. Even if I did have some mild side effects from the meds (which I haven't had), to me it would be a small price to pay in return for the quality of life I have now. I went on Celexa during a medical detox a few years ago and I resisted at first insisting I wasn't depressed, but the doctor convinced me to give it a shot. I had been looking for an effective med against alcohol craving for years (tried naltrexone, baclofen and Campral; Campral was the only one that was even remotely effective) but once I felt better about myself and life in general, voila, no need to drink. I don't think long term about when would I would be able to quit all my psych meds (Celexa, Remeron, doxepin, gabapentin and Ativan) I just take it day by day. Maybe someday I'll be well enough to taper off of them but I don't think about that very much.
 
KK, sounds like you are killing it, man. You have so much strength. You don't even realize. Look back through your posts and see how far you have come. You've got over a week off subs? That's awesome!! It's a roller coaster. It sucks and you question yourself the whole way through. Stick with it. I'm so happy to come back and see how well you've been doing!

Also, I agree with everybody about the help. Get the support you need. I've been seeing a therapist and it has really helped. For me, there is so much guilt associated with this that I can't imagine getting past it without hemorrhaging some of it out and having some guidance getting through it.
 
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