For the last 9 years I took Subutex (Suboxone in the early years) every single day. I was prescribed 60/month for the first 8 years and 30/month for the last year. For some time now I've been taking far less than I was prescribed. I usually took 1/3 to 1/2 of a 8mg a day, sometime more, over the last 2 years. During the last few months I was down to less than a 1/4 a day and the last few weeks I was taking crumbs twice a day. I'm a thorough opiate addict and I can say I still felt the crumbs in the last weeks. I took my last crumb Christmas Eve and "Day 1" was Christmas Day.
I'm 31 and have been to 3 IP rehabs (16yr. - Loratab/Xanax, 19yr. - 100mg of Methadone/day for a year & Xanax, & 21yr. - Subs & Xanax). I wanted to get off methadone and asked to go to the 2nd rehab and I've never taken methadone since. Those w/d's were brutal, but bearable since they only lasted 7 days or so. I was forced into the 1st and 3rd rehabs. About 9 years ago I fucked up again and instead of getting sent to another rehab my parents just took away my car and phone and let me go back to my Sub doctor. I started taking subs and not abusing any other drugs and I actually started doing really well. I went back to college and graduated at the top of my class. I also stopped hanging out with my old drug buddies and after a few years when I saw them again they kinda disgusted me. I'm not sure I would have been able to stay off of other drugs if I hadn't been on the subs. But, I stayed on the subs for far too long, I know this. About 4 years ago I should have got off them but I got a good job and told myself I had to stay on them for a little while longer to do well at my new job (typical addict rationale). I now know I'm ready to quit subs and all other drugs. I actually want to be clean and healthy. I've never wanted that before.
I've been planning this at-home detox for some time now. I planned it well. I took off 2 weeks and will be working from home for the next 2 weeks (I usually work from home 4-5 days a week - I love my job). Day 1 was Christmas Day 2017. The first 4 days weren't that bad, as I knew they wouldn't be. For me, the worse days are usually days 4-10. But, I've never been on a drug for 9 years and Subutex is not like H or oxy or methadone. Those w/d's are bad, but they don't last that long. Sub w/d's drag on for weeks or even months. I know it will be months in my case.
Day 5 was the first bad day. I've never had the "hugging the toilet and laying in bed all day" w/d's. For me, it's always been I can't sleep for about 2 weeks and my skin is crawling. I would way rather be laid up in bed and shitting/throwing up all day. The days aren't that bad. I couldn't work or function like a normal human being, but I can get through the days if not for the sleepless nights. When you don't sleep for days on end you are a worthless human being. When I try to go to sleep I just can't be still. I feel a compulsion to move. I just get the shivers all the time. I'm cold and sweating at the same time.
I had about 15 Robaxin for muscle pain, 2 15 year old Somas (they were sealed samples and still work fine) and a bunch of worthless shit from GNC: Melatonin, GABA, Megnesium, Valerian Root and Stress Killer. None of this stuff does much good during the first few brutal weeks. It may help later on, but it's a joke now. Now, the Soma's do help. I took one on day 3 about 3 hours before bed and felt good. Unfortunately, I took it too early before bed and it was wearing off as I was trying to go to sleep. Day 2-4 I got to sleep about 3-4AM and woke up tired and feeling bad about 7-8AM. But that's sleep. Day 5 I got about 1 hour of delirious "sleep." I'm not sure I actually slept, but I don't remember being away for an hour.
Day 6 I was trying to find something to help me sleep and stumbled across Kratom. It's legal in my state and there's a store that sells decent quality Kratom close to where I live. A friend and I went down to get some and I told him I was in w/d's from Subs (he's also an addict and currently not taking any scheduled/illegal drugs). He gave me some Phenibut. I'd never heard of it before, but it's a legal nootropic in the US. We also got some Kratom (the red strain which is supposedly for pain - the other strains are for energy or energy/pain). Before I could take it the Phenibut kicked in and I felt better for the first time in days. It was like a buzz from a few beers and a Valium, but you don't act stupid or appear inebriated and you have a clear mind. When I got home and researched it I found what I already knew. It was too good to be true. It's of coarse addictive and can be like benzos, working on your GABA-B receptors instead of your GABA-A receptors like Xanax and alcohol. BUT, I slept like a normal person for almost 8 hours that night.
I made the decision to take Phenibut for no more than 2 weeks to get me through the worst of the Sub w/d's. It's now day 13 and I can still feel the Sub w/d's really peaking. But, the Phenibut is masking the worst of the symptoms. I still get chills all the time and have to get up and move every now and then. I am sleeping 5-6 hours a night and to me the Phenibut has been worth it. From what I've read taking it for less than 3 weeks won't lead to withdrawals and even if it does, they won't be bad compared to the Subs. I am committed to getting off of all drugs. I've come off of Xanax before. Xanax w/d's fuck with your head and some pretty scary thoughts start popping up. Thoughts that a normal person doesn't usually have. This is something that I'm acutely aware off. I believe using Phenibut for 2 weeks to get over the worst of the Sub w/d's is worth it. I am absolutely positive that I would have gotten less than 5 hours of total sleep over the last week without it. And after a week of basically no sleep I might have considered a return visit to the Sub doctor. I never want to go to that hell-hole again.
Also, I did take the Kratom twice. The first time I took more than I should have. I got the "should I or shouldn't I throw up" trashy opiate feeling. Luckily I didn't. But I hadn't had that feeling in years. I hate it. The next time I took it I almost gagged (mixed it with water and lemon juice). It's the driest powder I've ever seen. It's like it refused to mix with a liquid and wants to remain a powder. It's no question an opiate and works. But, I am trying to get off opiates and it's just not worth it to me. I don't feel like I could get addicted to it because it repulses me to think about taking it. It's certainly addictive. But I don't think it's a good thing to mess with for opiate w/d's and I won't be using it again.
I've also been on Remeron (Mirtazapine) for sleep for 10 years. It helped me sleep while on Subs, but does nothing during opiate w/d's. I use to take 30mg every night and then was about to run out and started breaking them in half. I slept fine and maybe even better. When I went back to the doctor I told him and he gave me the 15mg. I cut them in half and slept fine (while on Subs) with 7.5mg. I've been taking 7.5mg every night for over a year now. I also want to get off these. I wondered if I could just stop taking them and did a little research. Lucky me, Remeron also produces really bad w/d's that can last for months. Some people were saying the w/d's didn't even kick in until months after quitting. I'm not going to stop taking these right now. I just feel like it would be too much at once. Maybe I should though. I just don't know much about Remeron w/d's like I do opiate/benzo w/d's. Any insight into this would be much appreciated.
Just like the last 2 times I came off opiates, I got sick after being off of opiates for about 10-14 days. The 9 years I was on Subs I got sick once. That is maybe the one good thing about opiates. I still feel very weak, but I'm hoping that once I get over being sick maybe the worst of the w/d's will have passed. I can't tell what's the flu or what's the w/d's right now. I do plan on starting exercising as soon as the severe w/d's start to subside. Before the bad w/d's set in, I did some hard cardio and felt great for a few hours after. I feel like if I can get addicted to exercising and eating well that will be for the best. Some people get addicted to AA/NA meetings, some other things. AA/NA is just not for me. When I first stopped doing other drugs and started taking the subs correctly I still liked reminiscing about the good old days. But after a year or so I started to feel ashamed at the shit I did and began to hate to talk about and remember it. I don't want to completely forgot what I did, that's how you relapse back into old tendencies. I just want to move on and remember this time as a bad dream. I've been to enough AA/NA meeting to know that it helps a whole lotta people. It's just not for me.
Other great things for opiate w/d's are music and TV. I re-watched Westworld season 1 & seasons 1-3 of The Leftovers on HBOGo. Then watched The OA, Sense8 and Bright on Netflix and a dozen other movies in the last 2 weeks. TV is much better than movies these days. When not watching TV, I'm constantly listening to music. If someone asked what I did in my 2 weeks off, I would feel like such a piece of shit if I told the truth. I just laid around watching TV and listening to music. I read 3 trashy fiction novels too. Whatever keeps your mind off of other, worse, things.
I start back work on Monday (it's Sunday morning) and will stop Phenibut in the next few days. I'm dreading the first few nights with no sleep but maybe Melatonin and Valerian Root will help. I just dread the no motivation thing. I'm looking into KSM-66 Ashwagandha. It's supposed to help with many of the issues caused by long term opiate use.
I will try to post updates at least once a week. I'm not deluding myself into thinking the Sub w/d's and PAWS will be over any time soon. 9 years is 9 years. I am certain I will not be taking Subs again. I've kept my last Sub crumb in my little pill box next to my bed for the last 2 weeks. I just wanted to know it was there and that I wouldn't take it. I plan on flushing it before I start back work Monday.
Wish me luck...
I'm 31 and have been to 3 IP rehabs (16yr. - Loratab/Xanax, 19yr. - 100mg of Methadone/day for a year & Xanax, & 21yr. - Subs & Xanax). I wanted to get off methadone and asked to go to the 2nd rehab and I've never taken methadone since. Those w/d's were brutal, but bearable since they only lasted 7 days or so. I was forced into the 1st and 3rd rehabs. About 9 years ago I fucked up again and instead of getting sent to another rehab my parents just took away my car and phone and let me go back to my Sub doctor. I started taking subs and not abusing any other drugs and I actually started doing really well. I went back to college and graduated at the top of my class. I also stopped hanging out with my old drug buddies and after a few years when I saw them again they kinda disgusted me. I'm not sure I would have been able to stay off of other drugs if I hadn't been on the subs. But, I stayed on the subs for far too long, I know this. About 4 years ago I should have got off them but I got a good job and told myself I had to stay on them for a little while longer to do well at my new job (typical addict rationale). I now know I'm ready to quit subs and all other drugs. I actually want to be clean and healthy. I've never wanted that before.
I've been planning this at-home detox for some time now. I planned it well. I took off 2 weeks and will be working from home for the next 2 weeks (I usually work from home 4-5 days a week - I love my job). Day 1 was Christmas Day 2017. The first 4 days weren't that bad, as I knew they wouldn't be. For me, the worse days are usually days 4-10. But, I've never been on a drug for 9 years and Subutex is not like H or oxy or methadone. Those w/d's are bad, but they don't last that long. Sub w/d's drag on for weeks or even months. I know it will be months in my case.
Day 5 was the first bad day. I've never had the "hugging the toilet and laying in bed all day" w/d's. For me, it's always been I can't sleep for about 2 weeks and my skin is crawling. I would way rather be laid up in bed and shitting/throwing up all day. The days aren't that bad. I couldn't work or function like a normal human being, but I can get through the days if not for the sleepless nights. When you don't sleep for days on end you are a worthless human being. When I try to go to sleep I just can't be still. I feel a compulsion to move. I just get the shivers all the time. I'm cold and sweating at the same time.
I had about 15 Robaxin for muscle pain, 2 15 year old Somas (they were sealed samples and still work fine) and a bunch of worthless shit from GNC: Melatonin, GABA, Megnesium, Valerian Root and Stress Killer. None of this stuff does much good during the first few brutal weeks. It may help later on, but it's a joke now. Now, the Soma's do help. I took one on day 3 about 3 hours before bed and felt good. Unfortunately, I took it too early before bed and it was wearing off as I was trying to go to sleep. Day 2-4 I got to sleep about 3-4AM and woke up tired and feeling bad about 7-8AM. But that's sleep. Day 5 I got about 1 hour of delirious "sleep." I'm not sure I actually slept, but I don't remember being away for an hour.
Day 6 I was trying to find something to help me sleep and stumbled across Kratom. It's legal in my state and there's a store that sells decent quality Kratom close to where I live. A friend and I went down to get some and I told him I was in w/d's from Subs (he's also an addict and currently not taking any scheduled/illegal drugs). He gave me some Phenibut. I'd never heard of it before, but it's a legal nootropic in the US. We also got some Kratom (the red strain which is supposedly for pain - the other strains are for energy or energy/pain). Before I could take it the Phenibut kicked in and I felt better for the first time in days. It was like a buzz from a few beers and a Valium, but you don't act stupid or appear inebriated and you have a clear mind. When I got home and researched it I found what I already knew. It was too good to be true. It's of coarse addictive and can be like benzos, working on your GABA-B receptors instead of your GABA-A receptors like Xanax and alcohol. BUT, I slept like a normal person for almost 8 hours that night.
I made the decision to take Phenibut for no more than 2 weeks to get me through the worst of the Sub w/d's. It's now day 13 and I can still feel the Sub w/d's really peaking. But, the Phenibut is masking the worst of the symptoms. I still get chills all the time and have to get up and move every now and then. I am sleeping 5-6 hours a night and to me the Phenibut has been worth it. From what I've read taking it for less than 3 weeks won't lead to withdrawals and even if it does, they won't be bad compared to the Subs. I am committed to getting off of all drugs. I've come off of Xanax before. Xanax w/d's fuck with your head and some pretty scary thoughts start popping up. Thoughts that a normal person doesn't usually have. This is something that I'm acutely aware off. I believe using Phenibut for 2 weeks to get over the worst of the Sub w/d's is worth it. I am absolutely positive that I would have gotten less than 5 hours of total sleep over the last week without it. And after a week of basically no sleep I might have considered a return visit to the Sub doctor. I never want to go to that hell-hole again.
Also, I did take the Kratom twice. The first time I took more than I should have. I got the "should I or shouldn't I throw up" trashy opiate feeling. Luckily I didn't. But I hadn't had that feeling in years. I hate it. The next time I took it I almost gagged (mixed it with water and lemon juice). It's the driest powder I've ever seen. It's like it refused to mix with a liquid and wants to remain a powder. It's no question an opiate and works. But, I am trying to get off opiates and it's just not worth it to me. I don't feel like I could get addicted to it because it repulses me to think about taking it. It's certainly addictive. But I don't think it's a good thing to mess with for opiate w/d's and I won't be using it again.
I've also been on Remeron (Mirtazapine) for sleep for 10 years. It helped me sleep while on Subs, but does nothing during opiate w/d's. I use to take 30mg every night and then was about to run out and started breaking them in half. I slept fine and maybe even better. When I went back to the doctor I told him and he gave me the 15mg. I cut them in half and slept fine (while on Subs) with 7.5mg. I've been taking 7.5mg every night for over a year now. I also want to get off these. I wondered if I could just stop taking them and did a little research. Lucky me, Remeron also produces really bad w/d's that can last for months. Some people were saying the w/d's didn't even kick in until months after quitting. I'm not going to stop taking these right now. I just feel like it would be too much at once. Maybe I should though. I just don't know much about Remeron w/d's like I do opiate/benzo w/d's. Any insight into this would be much appreciated.
Just like the last 2 times I came off opiates, I got sick after being off of opiates for about 10-14 days. The 9 years I was on Subs I got sick once. That is maybe the one good thing about opiates. I still feel very weak, but I'm hoping that once I get over being sick maybe the worst of the w/d's will have passed. I can't tell what's the flu or what's the w/d's right now. I do plan on starting exercising as soon as the severe w/d's start to subside. Before the bad w/d's set in, I did some hard cardio and felt great for a few hours after. I feel like if I can get addicted to exercising and eating well that will be for the best. Some people get addicted to AA/NA meetings, some other things. AA/NA is just not for me. When I first stopped doing other drugs and started taking the subs correctly I still liked reminiscing about the good old days. But after a year or so I started to feel ashamed at the shit I did and began to hate to talk about and remember it. I don't want to completely forgot what I did, that's how you relapse back into old tendencies. I just want to move on and remember this time as a bad dream. I've been to enough AA/NA meeting to know that it helps a whole lotta people. It's just not for me.
Other great things for opiate w/d's are music and TV. I re-watched Westworld season 1 & seasons 1-3 of The Leftovers on HBOGo. Then watched The OA, Sense8 and Bright on Netflix and a dozen other movies in the last 2 weeks. TV is much better than movies these days. When not watching TV, I'm constantly listening to music. If someone asked what I did in my 2 weeks off, I would feel like such a piece of shit if I told the truth. I just laid around watching TV and listening to music. I read 3 trashy fiction novels too. Whatever keeps your mind off of other, worse, things.
I start back work on Monday (it's Sunday morning) and will stop Phenibut in the next few days. I'm dreading the first few nights with no sleep but maybe Melatonin and Valerian Root will help. I just dread the no motivation thing. I'm looking into KSM-66 Ashwagandha. It's supposed to help with many of the issues caused by long term opiate use.
I will try to post updates at least once a week. I'm not deluding myself into thinking the Sub w/d's and PAWS will be over any time soon. 9 years is 9 years. I am certain I will not be taking Subs again. I've kept my last Sub crumb in my little pill box next to my bed for the last 2 weeks. I just wanted to know it was there and that I wouldn't take it. I plan on flushing it before I start back work Monday.
Wish me luck...
