Opioids Why does Codeine not work for me?

[Forever Changes]

I've tried Cold Water Extracting Codeine/Ibuprofen pills several times now at quite high doses but I do not feel a thing. No good effects or bad.

I read that some people produce less CYP2D6 enzyme and therefore don't get the full effects of Codeine. Perhaps this could apply to me - is there a way of knowing if you have this enzyme or not?

 

[Tubbs]

I'm pretty sure you can get tested for it. As you can for those with heavy metabolites

 

[Dr. Extract]

Most of the analgesic and euphoric effects of codeine are related to its major metabolite codeine-6-glucuronide. Morphine plays a role (more in people with multiple cyp2d6 copies) but its not the main show so to speak. Having said that I think codeine just isn't that great for some people.

 

[Tubbs]

I can attest to that, codeine doesn't work well for me, I also happen to have a natural tolerance to opiates.

 

[Forever Changes]

Most of the analgesic and euphoric effects of codeine are related to its major metabolite codeine-6-glucuronide. Morphine plays a role (more in people with multiple cyp2d6 copies) but its not the main show so to speak. Having said that I think codeine just isn't that great for some people.

it's possible that I'm not doing the CWE correctly even though I'm following the instructions closely

oherwise I guess I'll just keep upping the dose until it has an effect

 

[JessFR]

There is one way without being tested. If in future you find tramadol doesn't work either. Then it's very likely it's because you don't metabolize it properly. They both use the same metabolic pathways.

My mom has the same problem. Though oddly enough I don't.

 

[Lorne???]

^ That

Codiene is mild; though it has a pair of metabolites

 

[isaaccain]

Some people are just poor metabolisers, but there are other drugs that use CYP2D6 as well. If you've ever taken dexamphetamine or DXM and gotten high then you're not a poor metaboliser, there's something wrong with your method

 

[Forever Changes]

Some people are just poor metabolisers, but there are other drugs that use CYP2D6 as well. If you've ever taken dexamphetamine or DXM and gotten high then you're not a poor metaboliser, there's something wrong with your method

this is my method:


* I put 20 codeine/Ibuprofen pills (approx 250mg codeine) into 80ml room-temperature tap water

* I Leave the pills to dissolve for about an hour (is this long enough for the Codeine to fully dissolve into the water?)

* I pour the solution through a T-shirt. Most of it drains immediately into the glass, but I leave it for an hour anyway and then squeeze the remaining water out of the shirt

* Drink it but feel no effects (does a full or empty stomach make a difference?)

Is it possible that the Codeine doesn't dissolve in the water? Or that it doesn't filter through properly?

 

[JessFR]

A t-shirt isn't a great filter. It has nothing to do with you not experiencing a result but just a separate note on safety you might want to switch to something more effective like coffee filters. Lab filters are best but coffee filters are already a big improvement over a t-shirt.

Seems to me you're already waiting a lot longer than you need to at other steps, so instead using that time to wait for a better filter to work seems to me like a better method.

Unless I'm missing something I didn't see anything that should make it not work. Which means it's either not working because of tolerance or being a poor metabolizer.

Do you think youd be likely to have a high tolerance? Do you frequently use strong Opioids? Seems unlikely to me otherwise why would you be trying to use codeine.

I metabolize them fine but with my tolerance I'd never feel codeine at all.

But like I said, given you're trying to use codeine to start with I'm assuming this probably isn't a problem of tolerance.

Which means that most likely you're a poor metabolizer. Sorry, but if that's indeed the case there is little if anything you can do about it. It just means tramadol and codeine won't work properly for you. Sorry.

Having an empty or full stomach does make a difference but the difference is too small to be relevant here.

 

[Forever Changes]

^

I tried coffee filters and they took hours to drain through so people recommended a T-shirt which drains much faster. The solution is a little cloudy but most of the Ibuprofen appears to stay in the shirt.

I wonder if somehow the Codeine isn't dissolving into the water. I've read people who use freezing ice water for APAP CWE but apparently room-temp water is fine for Ibuprofen, but I could try using very cold water

no I don't use any other opioids so it isn't a tolerance issue. Do you think that higher doses might help? Is there a toxic level of Codeine? I've heard people say they take 300 or even 400mg in one go. I want to make sure I take a safe level

 

[Scrofula]

I have less than zero opiate tolerance, and codeine doesn't work for me either.

(Snarkily implying it's really weak stuff. More useful as a cough suppressant I think)

 

[Tubbs]

Lol my thoughts as well, their the only opiate I can leave sit around because they carry no temptation.

 

[JessFR]

^

I tried coffee filters and they took hours to drain through so people recommended a T-shirt which drains much faster. The solution is a little cloudy but most of the Ibuprofen appears to stay in the shirt.

I wonder if somehow the Codeine isn't dissolving into the water. I've read people who use freezing ice water for APAP CWE but apparently room-temp water is fine for Ibuprofen, but I could try using very cold water

no I don't use any other opioids so it isn't a tolerance issue. Do you think that higher doses might help? Is there a toxic level of Codeine? I've heard people say they take 300 or even 400mg in one go. I want to make sure I take a safe level

So long as you are doing even a remotely half assed job of crushing the pills, then no the codeine not dissolving shouldn't be a problem.

If you're using codeine and ibuprofen pills, does the liquid taste bitter? If you really wanna compare you could crush a regular ibuprofen tablet to compare the taste, but unlike APAP and codeine, ibuprofen and codeine taste very noticeably different. If the liquid tastes noticeably bitter, then it has opiate alkaloids in it.

Although I'm really just saying this for your own peace of mind. I don't think that's the problem, I think you're a poor metabolizer.

Codeine does dissolve a little better in colder water but with the amounts and temperatures we are talking about, that's not a plausible problem here either. Sorry but your being a poor metabolizer is by far the most likely explanation at this point from what's been said.

It's not that uncommon a problem.

As for taking more, well, I wouldn't be worried about the codeine becoming harmful. But I would be worried about the ibuprofen and especially APAP if you use that becoming harmful if you're filtering with a tshirt and start using a lot more.

That said my there's no guarantee that'll help either. It depends on how bad your system is at metabolizing it and it could very well be that increasing the dosage won't ever get you a satisfying dose.

Sorry but you might well just be out of luck for the drugs that rely this enzyme to work.

As someone who most definitely does metabolize codeine properly, I wouldn't call it too weak to bother with provided your tolerance is zilch. I used to use it a lot back in the day before my tolerance got crazy high. I found it worth while.

 

[Forever Changes]

So long as you are doing even a remotely half assed job of crushing the pills, then no the codeine not dissolving shouldn't be a problem.

I don't crush the pills, I just put them in the water and they disolve fairly quickly, stirring them until they become a white sludge

If you're using codeine and ibuprofen pills, does the liquid taste bitter? If you really wanna compare you could crush a regular ibuprofen tablet to compare the taste, but unlike APAP and codeine, ibuprofen and codeine taste very noticeably different. If the liquid tastes noticeably bitter, then it has opiate alkaloids in it.

yes the liquid tastes bitter. I wash it down with some juice

Codeine does dissolve a little better in colder water but with the amounts and temperatures we are talking about, that's not a plausible problem here either. Sorry but your being a poor metabolizer is by far the most likely explanation at this point from what's been said.

It's not that uncommon a problem.

any way to increase my metobolism? Drinking grapefruit juice perhaps?

 

[Steady Scootin]

Grapefruit juice or another potentiator may help somewhat, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference for you. I'm with some of the other guys here, codeine just isn't that strong.

 

[Tubbs]

And if you're not metabolizing it it's a lack of a liver enzyme, not much is gonna help that.

 

[JessFR]

Crushed or slowly waiting till they dissolve, same thing in the end. Unless the solution is full of parts of the clearly still solid pill it shouldn't be a problem dissolving it.

As for grapefruit juice. If you're only a weak metabolizer and your body produces some of the enzyme just not enough, grapefruit juice "might" have some effect but I doubt it would even be noticeable. And it's quite possible that you're not producing near enough of the enzyme no matter what you do.

It's in your DNA and unfortunately (or maybe fortunately depending on your perspective) I don't think there is any way around this. You can try, but be very careful. Especially with increasing the dosage substantially and adding grapefruit juice while using pills with APAP. That's the big danger here. Failing to remove the APAP and in the long term, the ibuprofen too. All the things you could try to enhance the Codeine will also increase the risks from the other stiff in the pill. And I still think a t-shirt is mostly insufficient.

I still think the ideal solution is to simply switch to a different opioid. If you don't produce enough enzyme to convert the Codeine to its active compound, then thats probably all there is too it.

 

[Forever Changes]

^ do you mean that you think a T-shirt will let through too much of the Ibuprofen where a coffee filter won't?,

is there a dangerous dose of Codeine? Erowid said a dose of 450mg+ could be fatal

unfortunately I don't have access to any other opioids, except possibly dihydrocodeine but that only comes combined with APAP which I want to avoid. Tramadol is prescription-only in the UK right?

 

[isaaccain]

this is my method:


* I put 20 codeine/Ibuprofen pills (approx 250mg codeine) into 80ml room-temperature tap water

* I Leave the pills to dissolve for about an hour (is this long enough for the Codeine to fully dissolve into the water?)

* I pour the solution through a T-shirt. Most of it drains immediately into the glass, but I leave it for an hour anyway and then squeeze the remaining water out of the shirt

* Drink it but feel no effects (does a full or empty stomach make a difference?)

Is it possible that the Codeine doesn't dissolve in the water? Or that it doesn't filter through properly?

Here's your problem mate, according to the Merck Chemical Index, codeine is more soluble the colder the water is. I don't have access to the Merck Index, but you can find an extract on this Erowid entry https://erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml about half way down the page. There's a table showing that 21C water needs less water to dissolve one gram of codeine freebase than 31C water. This wouldn't matter if you were extracting freebase codeine, but phosphate salts are much less water soluble, so the temperature really does make a difference. I've noticed in my CWEs that have the water down to about 3-5C that I get more out of it and it's more bitter than in the ones where the water was warmer. Basically because codeine phosphate is more soluble in cold water, all your codeine is staying as precipitate and getting caught in the filter. Just make sure you don't freeze it or you'll have to wait hours for it to melt. Maybe buy a thermometer to make sure the temperature goes to below 5C.

I really hope this helps xxx