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Opioids Why does Codeine not work for me?

Yes that's what I mean.

Though I'm more concerned about APAP than ibuprofen, but ibuprofen has risks too they just tend to be longer term and less extreme.

Unfortunately if you're a poor metabolizer then tramadol won't work either. It has the same problem. It's also inactive until the same enzyme converts it to an active metabolite. There might be others but those are the two I know of. Would have to look up others to check.

A high dose of Codeine could indeed be fatal but I'm fairly certain that is assuming the person is metabolizing it properly. That 450+ could be fatal to so some with no tolerance due to opioid overdose. But you can't experience an opioid overdose if it's not working as an opioid in your system.

I'm not aware of any way Codeine can plausibly harm you like that beyond the potential to overdose, so if for example, you still didn't even feel 300mg with no tolerance. I tend to doubt you're at risk of an overdose.

Again my concern is more the APAP and ibuprofen. If you take more Codeine to try and get some effect. Regardless of if it would work doing that or not and its quite possible it still won't work. You'd be exposing yourself to more of the unwanted ibuprofen or APAP in the process.

At the least if you wanna try using more and seeing if you feel that, I recommend switching to coffee filters. It takes longer but you can probably save time on other steps. For example it shouldn't take long to dissolve. If you crush the pills which can be done pretty quickly you could probably cut 40 minutes or more off the time.
 
isaaccain said:
Here's your problem mate, according to the Merck Chemical Index, codeine is more soluble the colder the water is. I don't have access to the Merck Index, but you can find an extract on this Erowid entry https://erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml about half way down the page. There's a table showing that 21C water needs less water to dissolve one gram of codeine freebase than 31C water. This wouldn't matter if you were extracting freebase codeine, but phosphate salts are much less water soluble, so the temperature really does make a difference. I've noticed in my CWEs that have the water down to about 3-5C that I get a lot higher than in ones where the water stayed about 7-10C. Basically because codeine phosphate is most soluble in cold water, all your codeine is staying as precipitate and getting caught in the filter. Just make sure you don't freeze it or you'll have to wait hours for it to melt.

I really hope this helps xxx
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Hmm. Actually this might be worth a try. Though honestly I still kinda doubt it. Not cause I think it's untrue, I knew Codeine dissolves better in colder water as I said earlier though I didn't know about the difference with Codeine phosphate. But even so, I wouldn't think it would remove so much Codeine that you wouldn't feel it at all.

Still, since it's an easy thing to try, might as well give it a go.
 
Even w/ 2d poor metabolism codeine releases histamine, so do NOT TAKE AN ABSURD DOSE

Codeine again produces a second active metabolite, Codiene-glucorinide or something, should have effects at moderate-high doses

Ever taken an antihistamine? NyQuil(or doxylamine/Unisom classic in US), or especially promethazine? would be a LOT more potent, and longer lasting 25mg could be akin to 100! And Doxylamine would cause intense anticholinergic effects, and likely extreme drowsiness; 12.5 would be like 25-50 or something)

Reply if curious
 
isaaccain said:
Here's your problem mate, according to the Merck Chemical Index, codeine is more soluble the colder the water is. I don't have access to the Merck Index, but you can find an extract on this Erowid entry https://erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml about half way down the page. There's a table showing that 21C water needs less water to dissolve one gram of codeine freebase than 31C water. This wouldn't matter if you were extracting freebase codeine, but phosphate salts are much less water soluble, so the temperature really does make a difference. I've noticed in my CWEs that have the water down to about 3-5C that I get more out of it and it's more bitter than in the ones where the water was warmer. Basically because codeine phosphate is more soluble in cold water, all your codeine is staying as precipitate and getting caught in the filter. Just make sure you don't freeze it or you'll have to wait hours for it to melt. Maybe buy a thermometer to make sure the temperature goes to below 5C.

I really hope this helps xxx
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice. I'll try getting the water down to below 5C before putting the pills in, or should I put the pills in and then put it in the freezer?

does the amount of water matter? I settled on around 80-90ml which was enough for 20 pills to dissolve in. I read that too much water could be detrimental
 
Lorne??? said:
Even w/ 2d poor metabolism codeine releases histamine, so do NOT TAKE AN ABSURD DOSE

Codeine again produces a second active metabolite, Codiene-glucorinide or something, should have effects at moderate-high doses

Ever taken an antihistamine? NyQuil(or doxylamine/Unisom classic in US), or especially promethazine? would be a LOT more potent, and longer lasting 25mg could be akin to 100! And Doxylamine would cause intense anticholinergic effects, and likely extreme drowsiness; 12.5 would be like 25-50 or something)

Reply if curious
Click to expand...

what would an absurd dose of Codeine be?

not sure what you mean about antihistamines? I've taken ones for allergies. And I have used Diphenhydramide for sleeping. Should these be combined with Codeine?
 
Lorne??? said:
Even w/ 2d poor metabolism codeine releases histamine, so do NOT TAKE AN ABSURD DOSE

Codeine again produces a second active metabolite, Codiene-glucorinide or something, should have effects at moderate-high doses

Ever taken an antihistamine? NyQuil(or doxylamine/Unisom classic in US), or especially promethazine? would be a LOT more potent, and longer lasting 25mg could be akin to 100! And Doxylamine would cause intense anticholinergic effects, and likely extreme drowsiness; 12.5 would be like 25-50 or something)

Reply if curious
Click to expand...

Damn, I didn't even think about the histamine issues. I'll have to brush up on how Codeine metabolism works cause I really haven't researched it I'm a long time.
 
Got to be a little more in depth with your info if you want an answer. How much are you taing and how much of other opiates/oids do you need to get high? There s no way to answer these types of questions without like that. I also believe that codeine has a ceiling as to how high it can get you. Probably due to the ability to convert so much of it to morphine. Its prettty high, like 500 mg codeine. But, still that to is like taking (way over-estimating here) like 90 mg oxycodone, so 3x 30 mg roxis. If you do that much oxycodone or if you mess with dope, then good chance you hit that ceiling and never will get much out of codeine again...atleasts not w/o a tolerance break.

Like to elaborate on my that...before I was a junk box and could do 100 mg of oxy to catch a short, less than great high, I was able to get high off 5-10 mg of oxycodone. I would need around 60-120 mg of codeine to equal that. Now I would not take codeine unless I was withdrawing and it happened to be there, since in that mindset you will lick a speck of dope dust off a public bathroom's floor, if you think it'll relieve some of your pain.
 
RTrain said:
Got to be a little more in depth with your info if you want an answer. How much are you taing and how much of other opiates/oids do you need to get high? There s no way to answer these types of questions without like that. I also believe that codeine has a ceiling as to how high it can get you. Probably due to the ability to convert so much of it to morphine. Its prettty high, like 500 mg codeine. But, still that to is like taking (way over-estimating here) like 90 mg oxycodone, so 3x 30 mg roxis. If you do that much oxycodone or if you mess with dope, then good chance you hit that ceiling and never will get much out of codeine again...atleasts not w/o a tolerance break.

Like to elaborate on my that...before I was a junk box and could do 100 mg of oxy to catch a short, less than great high, I was able to get high off 5-10 mg of oxycodone. I would need around 60-120 mg of codeine to equal that. Now I would not take codeine unless I was withdrawing and it happened to be there, since in that mindset you will lick a speck of dope dust off a public bathroom's floor, if you think it'll relieve some of your pain.
Click to expand...

I did say earlier that I used approx 250mg of Codeine in the CWE, and I have not taken any other kind of opiates

I also tried 22 pills (approx 280mg Codeine) but that's as high as I've gone so far. I will raise the dose, but 500mg sounds too high and too near the fatal dose for me to risk that much
 
Maybe try say, 150mg or something. But with colder water. Just to be sure we can rule out a problem with the extraction. But if you have no tolerance and still notice no result at that dose. Then something else is wrong. It's not being metabolized normally and likely you'll find you just can't get high off Codeine at just about any dose.

That's what I think anyway.
 
JessFR said:
Damn, I didn't even think about the histamine issues. I'll have to brush up on how Codeine metabolism works cause I really haven't researched it I'm a long time.
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Hydroxyine is the best antihistamine, no anti-cholinergic side effects and good potentiator.

How much Ibuprofen, 200mg? Ibuprofen can be neutralized with baking Soda/highPH, while a an Alkaline (high PH) actually enchances opiate absorption, and can even prolong T1/2/elimination; Nethadone good example of this, to an extent.

Only maybe 10% of a dose is converted to Morphine, and it actually is 5-10%(range 2.5-15%, or something) so 10% of a quarter gram is 25mg, and really it's more like 12.5-25mg, 30-40 NOT IMPOSSIBLE, though apperantly quite rare.

Or, 2.5-5mg. Luckily it has a second active metabolite, although not as potent as Morphine Classic.

Many Antihistamines are metabolized by cyp2D, so it's a starter.

Why not Hydro? CWE is easier, and less tablets are needed; Hydro is 4-5x as potent, less side effects, and 30mg = 20 Oxy(15-30)

Just asking
 
JessFR said:
Maybe try say, 150mg or something. But with colder water. Just to be sure we can rule out a problem with the extraction. But if you have no tolerance and still notice no result at that dose. Then something else is wrong. It's not being metabolized normally and likely you'll find you just can't get high off Codeine at just about any dose.

That's what I think anyway.
Click to expand...

do you think I'd have the same problem if I tried Dihydrocodeine?
 
Forever Changes said:
do you think I'd have the same problem if I tried Dihydrocodeine?
Click to expand...

No, unlike codeine, dihydrocodiene is active on its own; and twice as potent as Codiene itself

Just use a coffe filter, and say, 15-20ml per 10 tablets

In the U.K., they have 30 and 40mg tablets, that are supposedly pure
 
Lorne??? said:
No, unlike codeine, dihydrocodiene is active on its own; and twice as potent as Codiene itself

Just use a coffe filter, and say, 15-20ml per 10 tablets

In the U.K., they have 30 and 40mg tablets, that are supposedly pure
Click to expand...

as far as I know in the UK Dihydrocodeine is only available over the counter in 7mg tablets combined with Paracetemol (APAP) named 'Paramol'

if there's a chance it might work where Codeine didn't then I might consider trying it, but I would want to be absolutely certain I removed as much of the APAP as possible because I'm worried about the risk of liver damage

what typical doses of DHC to people usually take?
 
Removing APAP is easy; seriously a liter of water would be less than 2 grams;

It is supposed to be twice as potent as Codeine, however it is an active opioid on it’s own, and is at least more reliable.
For poor-intermediate metabolizers, it could be 3-4x as potent.

And 3a4 inhibitors can make it twice as potent and slightly longer duration, as BA% isn’t 80-90% or anything.

Do NOT Start w/ more 70mg; 40 minutes later redose, another 70mg if you want/need.

TAKE AN ANTIHISTAMINE-Hydroxyzine is a great potentiator, bBery potent 1st gen Anti-Hustamine, the best anti-emetic( along with Promethazine) and no anticholinergic effects or notable side effects, and produces Cetirizine as an active metabolite.

Promethazine is also great.

Please get antihistamine,
 
^by antihistamine do you mean just the regular anti-allergy meds you can buy over-the-counter?

do you think they might make Codeine work for me?

as for extracting APAP, I know that if it's done right it should be safe, but I still have reservations about it. I've read that you should try to use a little water as possible when dissolving the pills - is that true?
 
In the UK Hydroxyzine is available OTC, and Promethazine, if not mistaken.

Promethazine is a 2d inhibitor with unreliable BA%, and slow onset.

Hydroxyzine kicks in fairl fast, no anti-cholinergic side effects, and good potentiator.

Your probably gonna have to go w/ dibydrcodiene, it isn’t a full prodrug, and is active by itself.

Though honestly they give(or used to, surely rare now) Codeine IM injections (NEVER IV) so it’s active to an extent.

Remember 5-10% of a dose is converted to morphine; even with 200mg, you would be talking ~15mg morphine, though it can be as low as 2%, so 5mg morphine?
Try dihydro, man
 
so you use antihistamines with Codeine because they potentiate the effects, or to stop the itching?

I don't want to increase the sedative effects, but rather the euphoric effects.

I'll try Dihydrocodeine once I'm certain Codeine has no effect on me. And I need to make sure I get the CWE perfect to be as safe as possible. Still concerned about the APAP
 
Codeine is a stupid drug producing an unknown amount of morphine in anyone as everyone has different individual metabolism. 300mg codeine would do nothing for me now whereas oxycodone or morphine 20mg would begin to -they dont need to metabolize to work. Better and safer to prescribe low dose morphine
 
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