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Treatment Queen Buprenorphine and the Chronological Dragon

n1ghtcrawl3r

n1ghtcrawl3r

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Joined
Dec 22, 2017
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38
Hi All,


My name is n1ght, and I've been frequenting Bluelight for many years without posting or commenting on any threads. I've still managed to gain a wonderful insight into many people's battle with addiction but I felt as though it was time that I made a contribution myself. Because I've never posted before, I'm not really too sure where to start or what kind of information is going to be of value, but I will share my story the best that I can and hope to get some helpful advice along the way :)


I've been addicted to opiates for 8 years now, and this began with the abuse of codeine. Inevitably (we all know the story) this progressively got worse and worse over the years, and I now find myself in the depths of addiction. My use of drugs has varied over the last few years (oxycodone, morphine, heroin, etc.) but I never injected (edit: I injected morphine one time when I was in Vietnam, and have never done it since [full disclosure lol]) and always stuck to either swallowing or snorting. The last 8 months has been more severe because I separated from my fiancé and lost my job in the same week, so I turned to drugs for comfort and began sinking more and more into my own depressive abyss. I have always been a daily smoker of cannabis also, but this is not my main concern at the moment as it does not drain my bank account and turn me into a fiend like my little opiate friends do.


Well, last Wednesday (9 days ago), I decided that I'd had enough and put myself on Suboxone. Initially the doctor over prescribed me and gave me 8mg a day. I went back to work and was nodding off at my desk for half of the day, so I asked to be dropped down to 4mg. I still felt as though 4mg was too much and after reading up on buprenorphine and the extreme potency of the drug, I decided to try and dose as low as I possibly could. My doctor seemed very confused when I kept asking to have my dose lowered and seemed to want to keep me at a higher dose. My reasoning for this is that I have never been a very heavy user. I would usually take about 80mg of oxy 3-5 times a week. I would buy a couple of bags of H if I couldn't get on, or I would do a CWE (cold water extraction) on a bunch of codeine if I was reeeaally struggling to find some dope.


Anyways, today is Friday and I've just finished work. I had 2mg of Suboxone this morning and as of tomorrow I have 15 full days off of work. When I spoke to my doctor about getting take-aways for the holiday period (15 x 2mg sub strips), he made it very clear that I could only take home 3 strips. I wasn't too bothered as I had initially planned to give up all opiates over this holiday period, but here's the thing ..... Suboxone is really helping me. I have found over the last 9 days that I have had no interest in taking opiates OR drinking alcohol. I have still been smoking cones on a daily basis, but I always have and I feel as though I probably always will (I'd definitely like to cut down on my weed intake though, and I will work on this once I have defeated my other demons). I took my 3 take-aways home today (3 x 2mg strips), and I am going to take another 2mg strip tomorrow morning before I get on the bus and head off on my 15 day holiday up the coast. I am going to leave 2 of the 2mg strips at home for when I get back in 15 days.


Basically, I want to see how different I feel when being dosed with sub as opposed to NOT being dosed with sub. I have had stints of sobriety in the past (longest was 3 months), but even after all that time I have always managed to relapse. I know that I may experience some withdrawals from my opiate abuse, and having the 2 weeks clean may not be a very good indication of whether or not life is better when you're sober, but I plan on carrying this through for as long as I can. If I feel OK when I get back home, I will flush my remaining 2 strips down the toilet and I will stay away from opiates for as long as I can !


I just wanted to get all of this off of my chest, and I wanted to hear what people think of Suboxone as a means of opiate replacement therapy. I'm also interested in what people think about taking an opiate like Suboxone or methadone long-term. I understand that it's more common for people to use Suboxone as a tool to wean oneself off of all opiates, but what do people think about taking the drug as a means of permanently occupying a person's opiate receptors and thus (for whatever reason) giving them a better quality of life ? .. Maybe some people have a kind of deficit with their opiates receptors and they need some kind of continuous form of stimulation ?


Sorry for the long post ! ..


Either way, I'm really looking forward to hearing what people have to say. Thanks for reading and I look forward to keeping you updated on my journey and reading about yours :)
 
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One of the good things about posting on this forum also, is that I can use it as somewhat of a diary to keep a track of my own personal progression and recovery. I know that within the next 2 weeks my mind is subject to swing towards a more negative state as it's not going to have its opiate receptors stimulated. I just would like to make a point of how much I have seemingly stabilized over the last 9 days and that if the urge to delve in opiates returns, I feel that Suboxone is a much wiser (and cheaper) option. It's almost as though I don't trust my future self and his decision making abilities, but I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see how I feel lol ...
 
Welcome (though as I recall, you’ve posted here in the past, no?)

The effects of suboxone are pretty idiosyncratic, depending strongly on dosage and many intangible factors. Do you have a sense of some outcomes with all this that you’d find desirable? It might be easier to think about some goals and consider how to set things up so they’re likely to be reachable.
 
n1ghtcrawl3r said:
Hi All,


My name is n1ght, and I've been frequenting Bluelight for many years without posting or commenting on any threads. I've still managed to gain a wonderful insight into many people's battle with addiction but I felt as though it was time that I made a contribution myself. Because I've never posted before, I'm not really too sure where to start or what kind of information is going to be of value, but I will share my story the best that I can and hope to get some helpful advice along the way :)


I've been addicted to opiates for 8 years now, and this began with the abuse of codeine. Inevitably (we all know the story) this progressively got worse and worse over the years, and I now find myself in the depths of addiction. My use of drugs has varied over the last few years (oxycodone, morphine, heroin, etc.) but I never injected and always stuck to either swallowing or snorting. The last 8 months has been more severe because I separated from my fiancé and lost my job in the same week, so I turned to drugs for comfort and began sinking more and more. I have always been a daily smoker of cannabis also, but this is not my main concern at the moment as it does not drain my bank account and turn me into a fiend like my little opiate friends do.


Well, last Wednesday (9 days ago), I decided that I'd had enough and put myself on Suboxone. Initially the doctor over prescribed me and gave me 8mg a day. I went back to work and was nodding off at my desk for half of the day, so I asked to be dropped down to 4mg. I still felt as though 4mg was too much and after reading up on buprenorphine and the extreme potency of the drug, I decided to try and dose as low as I possibly could. My doctor seemed very confused when I kept asking to have my dose lowered and seemed to want to keep me at a higher dose. My reasoning for this is that I have never been a very heavy user. I would usually take about 80mg of oxy 3-5 times a week. I would buy a couple of bags of H if I couldn't get on, or I would do a CWE (cold water extraction) on a bunch of codeine if I was reeeaally struggling to find some dope.


Anyways, today is Friday and I've just finished work. I had 2mg of Suboxone this morning and as of tomorrow I have 15 full days off of work. When I spoke to my doctor about getting take-aways for the holiday period (15 x 2mg sub strips), he made it very clear that I could only take home 3 strips. I wasn't too bothered as I had initially planned to give up all opiates over this holiday period, but here's the thing ..... Suboxone is really helping me. I have found over the last 9 days that I have had no interest in taking opiates OR drinking alcohol. I have still been smoking cones on a daily basis, but I always have and I feel as though I probably always will (I'd definitely like to cut down on my weed intake though, and I will work on this once I have defeated my other demons). I took my 3 take-aways home today (3 x 2mg strips), and I am going to take another 2mg strip tomorrow morning before I get on the bus and head off on my 15 day holiday up the coast. I am going to leave 2 of the 2mg strips at home for when I get back in 15 days.


Basically, I want to see how different I feel when being dosed with sub as opposed to NOT being dosed with sub. I have had stints of sobriety in the past (longest was 3 months), but even after all that time I have always managed to relapse. I know that I may experience some withdrawals from my opiate abuse, and having the 2 weeks clean may not be a very good indication of whether or not life is better when you're sober, but I plan on carrying this through for as long as I can. If I feel OK when I get back home, I will flush my remaining 2 strips down the toilet and I will stay away from opiates for as long as I can !


I just wanted to get all of this off of my chest, and I wanted to hear what people think of Suboxone as a means of opiate replacement therapy. I'm also interested in what people think about taking an opiate like Suboxone or methadone long-term. I understand that it's more common for people to use Suboxone as a tool to wean oneself off of all opiates, but what do people think about taking the drug as a means of permanently occupying a person's opiate receptors and thus (for whatever reason) giving them a better quality of life. Maybe some people have a kind of deficit with their opiates receptors and they need some kind of continuous form of stimulation ?


Sorry for the long post ! ..


Either way, I'm really looking forward to hearing what people have to say. Thanks for reading and I look forward to keeping you updated on my journey and reading about yours :)
Click to expand...

Hello.

I am in a similar place that you are in. I am currently in the gathering stages of my next and hopefully last time to quit. I have made a plane to use as little Suboxone as possible to help with the first 2 or 3 weeks. Then I will start to taper using some good information I found here. I think what you should have maybe done is leave your script at the 4mg and used your take home by cutting them to 2 and lower. You should consider doing that with the ones you have now. From what I have gathered the taper with this drug should go down as low as 0.125mg to avoid WD. That is my plan. The only difference is I am in Canada and will go to the street to get my supply. I will be watching your progress and respond when I can. I hope to be off completely by the end of February and will be taking a month long holiday in April. This will I hope cement my resolve to stay clean.

Good luck and I hope for the best for you.
 
Hi Wolf,

Thanks heaps for the message and I hope you're doing well. I think that your plan is a good idea, and the only reason I decided to jump from 2mg instead of tapering down is because of the short duration in which I've been taking the sub (10 days). Have you ever heard of Robert_365 ? (I think that was his name) .. He has a great schedule for Suboxone tapering. Looking forward to hearing back from you :)
 
Hey Simco,

I have never posted here before, but maybe my name looks familiar ?! .. Either way it's great to hear from you :) .. Due to the fact that the last 8 years has been such a roller coaster ride, my only real plan atm is to try and maintain some form of mental stability. I just took one of my 2mg strips about half an hour ago and am about to jump on the train now :) .. I just feel really at peace on Suboxone and it's almost as though my other half (the fiendish one) gets put to sleep for the day, and the normal me is left to roam the earth lol. This is only my experience after such a short period though, so I imagine things would change as my tolerance increased.

Simco, do you take Suboxone ?
 
I think I'm beginning to realize that my biggest concern is not getting sober, but staying sober. I feel as though I'm going to be able to stay clean for the next 2 weeks, but there's a part of me that just doesn't see the point anymore (maybe I'm not ready, or maybe I just suck) .. I am all too familiar with the depression that comes seeping in as soon as my mind is left to its own devices, and there's a part of me that just feels so much more comfortable when I'm taking opiates. As I write this now, I have 2mg Suboxone in my system. I don't feel high, I just feel content. Let's see how I feel in a few days time.

Thanks everyone, I'm really beginning to enjoy taking part in this community :)
 
n1ghtcrawl3r said:
I think I'm beginning to realize that my biggest concern is not getting sober, but staying sober. I feel as though I'm going to be able to stay clean for the next 2 weeks, but there's a part of me that just doesn't see the point anymore (maybe I'm not ready, or maybe I just suck) .. I am all too familiar with the depression that comes seeping in as soon as my mind is left to its own devices, and there's a part of me that just feels so much more comfortable when I'm taking opiates. As I write this now, I have 2mg Suboxone in my system. I don't feel high, I just feel content. Let's see how I feel in a few days time.

Thanks everyone, I'm really beginning to enjoy taking part in this community :)
Click to expand...

There is also a way to increase the bio-availability of your suboxone with the use of alcohol. The protocols are in the sticky forum. If you get stuck on your vacation and need to stretch your 2mg strip have a look.


http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...c-Solutions-for-Higher-BA-With-Sublingual-Use
 
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Very interesting, I'll be sure to have a read thanks ! .. I actually won't have access to any Suboxone over the next 15 days, so I won't get the chance to try this. I may try this once I get back from my holiday though :)
 
Day 1: So I'm definitely noticing that my tolerance for conversation has taken a plummet. I did notice this last night though too, so I'm aware that my feelings atm are all psychological and not physical in nature. It's Christmas tomorrow and I don't want to spend my holidays caught in my own head, but I know that I need to stay abstinent so that I have a better chance at sorting my life out .. Ugggghhh
 
If you don't have a physical addiction I would try really hard to stay abstinent without sub maintenance. It's a tougher kick then short acting opiates and it's long term effeciancy is less then methodone ime. For me after a few months on sub my craving for opiates never went away. It was all the downside of opiods without the high. Granted it kept me alive but I never thrived on sub
 
Hey CJ,

Thanks for the advice. I do have a physical addiction to opiates (which the sub managed to hide for the last 9 days), but not a physical addiction to sub. Either way, my Mu receptors are not being stimulated and I feel like ass tonight haha. I will wait and see how I feel over the next couple of weeks and then I'll go from there.

Have you ever been on methadone treatment ?
 
Hi there n1ghtcrawl3r, enjoy you're OP. You've a playful way with words, which is always pleasure to read!

cj and me both know methadone well.

I am curious to learn more about your goals with this. You mentioned abstinence. Why do you identify this as your goal? Is it something you feel you need to achieve in order to achieve your goals, or is it something you believe will happen if you simple continue to work on accomplishing shorter term goals to move you closer and closer to your long term desires?

(think about the latter)

You mentioned the instability of the last few years. Would you share a bit more about this? Also, would you mind sharing a bit more about your former opioid habit (substance/duration/dosage)? This info will help you get better feedback.

Love your writing though. Great to have you on BL. Merry kicking Christmas! 'tis the season, as they say ;)
 
Hey TPD,

Thanks heaps for the message and a merry kicking Christmas to you too ! ..

To answer your first question, although my long-term goal is sobriety, I can honestly say that I no longer trust myself enough to feel certain that I will achieve it. Today is day 2 and although I could feel worse, I feel pretty rotten. I've also managed to pick up the common cold at the same time :(

This is why, after so many years of opiate abuse, I've turned to Suboxone. Over the last 9 days, it showed me that even if I can't beat this the first time around, there is something to fall back on. That I don't have to end up pawning all of my music gear and taking out payday loans for my opiate friends. At the moment (although I'm attempting sobriety), my long term goal is actually stability.

When I'm not taking opiates, I become very obsessive and manic (I've been diagnosed with OCD & BPD II) and I can't stop thinking about the past. I keep dwelling on old memories and driving myself NUTS. Opiates allow me to switch off for a minute, and they give my mind some time to put things in perspective.

Your second question: My history with opiate abuse would be considered mild by most. My intake was about and oxy 80 every second day, if not a couple of bags of H when I couldn't find my pharmaceuticals.

I guess I'm just trying to work my brain out. WHY do I feel the need to self medicate in the first place ? .. Why don't others ? ..

What's different with my brain compared to people whom aren't addicts. And how can I work towards fixing it so I can have a life ? .. Of course, these questions are mostly rhetorical.

I feel as though my life without drugs is just as painful as my life with drugs.

I want this to change :)
 
Also, I just wanted to add ..

I really like the part where you said;

"You mentioned abstinence. Why do you identify this as your goal? Is it something you feel you need to achieve in order to achieve your goals, or is it something you believe will happen if you simple continue to work on accomplishing shorter term goals to move you closer and closer to your long term desires?

(think about the latter)"

I think that perhaps the act of 'rushing' towards my end goal has been the cause for me relapsing so many times, if you know what I mean.
 
The good news is that this will most certainly change. Things always change. How they change, at least in part, depends on the skillfulness of the choices you make for yourself though - especially in terms of your willingness to make explore, mistakes, pick yourself up and learn.

Anyways, I most definitely know what you mean :) Rushing through life had me chasing my tail, running in circles for years and years.

Do you like to read? There are a lot of books that really really helped me wrap my head around this stuff. Happy to share the names of some of them with you if you'd like.

Something that I also really benefited from (my experience of mental illness is related to PTST, depression and anxiety/social phobia) was outpatient based mental health treatment. It is sooooooooooo much better than most substance use disorder programs. It's really incredibly.

With you mental health stuff, do you feel like it's under control or do you still struggle? I'm sure you've heard the story of how important a therapist AND psychiatrist is, but of course it can take a lot of effort find ones who are right for you (I feel like it's 1/10 at best of those I try).

Also, of course, there is my all time favorite (the missing piece of the puzzle that helped me get off opioids and move away from harmful drug use generally), mindfulness based practices. If you live in a major city there should more than a couple places. If you want any suggestions lemme know. Therapy and psych meds are significantly more effective when combined with mindfulness based practices.

If you can find a way to integrate what you're doing to manage your mental health stuff, substance use stuff and mindfulness stuff - that's the ticket to success IMHO.
 
Hey Toothpastedog,

Sorry that I didn't get the chance to write back yesterday, I was spending the Christmas with my family and was very busy with festivities ! .. I love your name by the way haha

I've been jumping around Bluelight on a few different threads, and have seen you posting quite a bit. One of the things that really stuck with me that you've been suggesting, is to try and look more at the long term goal rather than the short term goal. You seem to really understand the erratic mind of an addict, and it's really refreshing to have you reinforce this good advice. I feel as though this erratic behaviour is what causes the cycle, and attacking things with a more methodical approach will be more rewarding in the long run.

During my sober months, I have had a bit of experience with meditation and mindfulness practices. I used to practice Vipassana meditation and I found it very rewarding. The thing that upset me the most, is that even after achieving sobriety for 2 months, I still relapsed and fell back down the rabbit hole. I remember having a bit of a mental breakdown at work, and I left early. I went straight home and began smoking weed and drinking codeine.

Today is day 3 and I have only been smoking some weed. I feel very anxious, and have been sweating right through my bed each night. I think I've actually managed to catch the flu as well !

I've been thinking a lot about trying to obtain some Suboxone whilst I'm on my holiday, and seeing if 1mg would potentially bring some relief to my depressive mental state. Perhaps I should try another form of medication ? .. I used to take Seroquel but it wasn't for me. During that 1 week period where I was taking Suboxone, I actually felt pretty normal. Now I find myself lying on my bed, and obsessing about the past.

I've lost things due to addiction that I know I will never get back .. I don't know man, I guess it's just a process.

Either way, if I were to look at myself a year ago, I'm really proud of how far I've come and how much I'm trying to fix this :)
 
Use a tiny tiny tid bit of buprenorphine (a crumb of a Suboxone) pill. Anything around 0.2-0.5mg should be a good first dose of buprenorphine. Honestly, the easiest way to use this for a few days is just to snort it (it's a tiny amount of pill).

If you get strips grab some Listerine. I'm assuming you're just using the Suboxone to get well. Anyways, try taking 2mg sublingually (under your tongue) after washing your mouth out with Listerine (or any ethanol based mouth wash). It's good to brush your teeth pre-Listerine too btw :) I'm not saying anything about your hygiene, but who doesn't love a nice smile?

The Ethanol solution/Listerine will help increase the sublingual BA of Suboxone strips if you use it to wash your mouth out first. It will also help the strip dissolve a little faster. I always found Listerine to work better than just Vodka or whatever, so perhaps try that first (and please do spit the Listerine out).

There are other meds you can take if you're dealing with hot/cold flashes/sweets as well as RLS or insomnia, as well as GI meds too, but all those require having a doctor.

Do you have a medical professional you can talk to about this stuff to get help with, or are you trying to go it alone?

Keep your head up!
 
Hey TPD,

I'm interested as to why you recommended taking 2mg sublingually, and only 0.5mg intranasally ? .. Is this because of the difference in BA with the 2 different routes of administration ? ..

I actually don't have any access to Suboxone, and would have to go and find a prescriber in my current location to get access to some. I can't imagine that would be toooo difficult. However, it would probably be easier to get some Valium or clonidine from a GP.

I have 2 weeks to work through my emotions and decide what I want to do though, and that has certainly alleviated a lot of the pressure. I don't have a professional, I am trying to go it alone. As you mentioned previously, my success with psychiatrists has been very poor. Perhaps I ought to keep at it.

Hmmm ....
 
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