Misc (Phenibut) Withdrawal - Lower doses (<1g) but long-term use. Looking for guidance

[Hypoid]

Hi all. Looking for some help dealing with Phenibut withdrawal.

I've seen a lot of posts about people who take this stuff daily, but less for withdrawal from long-term use for 1-2x a week, so I'm looking for anyone who's been through something similar.

I've kept a log to see what's going on / so I can really evaluate everything (yeah I know OCD but it's so I can track what to do/what works/what doesn't 8)).


Background/How This Happened

• I've been taking Phenibut on and off for about a year, sometimes taking 2-4 weeks off after a couple of months of use.
• I never noticed huge withdrawal symptoms before, I would just get a bit more anxious.
• My doses were almost always the same: Wednesday I'd take 0.5g, and Saturday I'd take 1.0g. Not super super high amounts, and I NEVER got into dosing daily or much more than this (save 1 or 2 times).
• In October, I decided to taper off because I thought I was dependent and wanted to stop. I started reducing my doses by 0.1g every week starting with taking 0.75g each dose (mid-ground for what I was taking both days).
• I take my doses in the morning on an empty stomach, and don't eat for 2-3 hours.
• I sometimes noticed more anxiety, but I thought "Meh" because I am a naturally anxious person, and in sort of a high-pressure state at the moment (running my own biz). I've also had a lot of stress past few years so I assumed it was just me.
• In retrospect I should have seen the signs: I was having regular panic attacks, thought something was wrong with my heart (went to the doctor and got the all clear for heart sounds and ECG)
• I messed up my taper 2 weeks ago, taking 0.9g each day because I just "wanted to feel better".
• I started feeling general nausea and unwell Monday last week. I thought it was food poisoning or stress. I went back to my taper step that I was supposed to do last week to to do 0.3g each day.
• I basically blew a fuse last Friday: Saturday I woke up feeling terrible, and burned out.

This Past Week - What's Happened

• Monday - It got HORRIBLE starting Monday where I just felt nauseous all the time, had horrible anxiety, chest racing, couldn't sleep, heart palpitations, no appetite, etc.... I took 1g of Phenibut and everything was better. I slept for 10 hours.
• Tuesday - Felt A LOT better. Could do some stuff. A bit nauseous towards later in day. Did some work. Bad insomnia where I could only sleep 2 hours, and otherwise was just up.
• Wednesday - Felt horrible again, absolute hell. Worse than Monday. Anxiety, stress, and from no sleep. Lots of feelings of giving up. Called my parents who were very supportive, and thankfully, decided to take L-theanine, which made me feel A LOT better. It made my heart race really fast, but again, felt a lot better in terms of negative thinking. Took Amitriptyline (20mg) and was able to get semi-broken 9 hours of sleep.
• Thursday - Felt better in the morning, but still cold/weak, muscle shakes, no appetite. Found I had a lot of anxious energy. I had talked to my pharmacist friend for guidance and he suggested doing a taper, starting with 0.3g of Phenibut dosed on Monday, Thursday, and Saturday. I took my first dose. Around 3 hours in, I started feeling less anxious, but then got WAY more nauseuous and more shakes. I thought the Phenibut dose would make me FEEL BETTER, but it seemed to do the opposite. I don't know if this is because I found that dosing L-theanine consistently at 30mg every 2-3 hours really helps, and that's playing with things/overloading my GABA receptors, or what.
  • Started to also get some stomach aches here. More nauseous 4 hours in.
  • 5 hours in I felt less dizzy/nauseous and LOTS of energy.
  • 7 hours - less nausea, but I also taking Gravol and L-theanine, but gravel didn’t do too much @ 5 hours in.
  • Found that I started having a symptom of feeling like I had to pee a lot. Also, gas.
  • Felt genuinely tired at the end of the day, and was able to nap a bit mid-day after the Phenibut wore off.
  • But, sleep was crap.
• Today (Friday) - Couldn't sleep again, maybe 3-4 broken hours with 10mg of Amitriptyline and Melatonin. I felt more like myself and could do work and the day went on, feeling less nauseous etc., and had tons of energy. I still feel physically exhausted and sick, but while in the morning I felt I had to pee all the time, the symptom was going away as time goes on. Oddly enough it seems like I'm starting to feel a bit better/less anxious, but I'm still dosing 30mg L-Theanine every 2-3 hours, along with 25mg Dimenhydrinate (Gravol) every 2 hours for support.

Quick TL;DR

• While I haven't taken huge doses, of Phenibut I think the fact that I've become dependent on the Phenibut and also my built up stress has made this way worse.
• Tried to taper down from semi-regular use of 0.5g on Wednesdays, and 1.0g on Saturdays for around a year, with 2-4 week breaks here and there.
• Burned out and went into withdrawal after taking 0.9g 2x a week (missing a taper step), and then going down to 0.3g 2x a week.

My Current Support: Dosing 30mg L-Theanine every 2-3 hours, along with 25mg Dimenhydrinate (Gravol) every 2 hours. I don't want to add in other drugs like Balcofen, Neurotonin, etc.etc.



So to the guys and gals who've been through this:

1. It seems like while Phenibut helped my symptoms on Monday in high dose, but at the low dose, started making things worse. Any idea why?

2. Tapering too fast is what I think messed me up, instead of doing a SUPER LONG taper of -10% every 2-4 weeks, but I didn't do my research before. My pharmacist friend suggested to start doing 0.3g every Monday, Thursday, and Saturday until I feel better/my body is back in balance, then taper down to 0 over the span of a few months.

I have patience to do the tapering for however long it takes if it'll make me feel better, but is this going to make things worse/prolong the withdrawal or will it help my body get used to things?

3. As of right now, my symptoms are BETTER the further I am from my last Phenibut dose, and again, it seemed to make everything worse when I took it. Am I in for a nasty surprise a bit later on tomorrow when even less is in my system, or have I gone through the worst and should I just stop taking it cold turkey, as taking more will prolong my issues?


Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate any advice you have from experience!

 

[Vazkor]

Hi there!
I think withdrawal from phenibut makes you overanalyzing your symtoms.
The dosages seem low enough to be able to just stop right now. No tapering necessary.
Of course, after this, you have 5-6 days of hardly any sleep. And after those 5-6 days you have 5-10 days of poor sleep.
These are my experiences coming off .5 gram daily for 2-3 months. You used even less.
Try to ignore your symptoms. They are inconvenient & annoying but not much more than that...

A taper would only prolong your symptoms (& hardly make them less annoying).

Luck & regards,

Vazkor

 

[Hypoid]

Hi there!
I think withdrawal from phenibut makes you overanalyzing your symtoms.
The dosages seem low enough to be able to just stop right now. No tapering necessary.
Of course, after this, you have 5-6 days of hardly any sleep. And after those 5-6 days you have 5-10 days of poor sleep.
These are my experiences coming off .5 gram daily for 2-3 months. You used even less.
Try to ignore your symptoms. They are inconvenient & annoying but not much more than that...

A taper would only prolong your symptoms (& hardly make them less annoying).

Luck & regards,

Vazkor

Thanks for replying!

The only thing is that I was getting withdrawal symptoms from my -0.1g/week taper, and I can't deal with another set of what I had earlier this week. Worried that if I just go cold turkey I'll get horrible symptoms.

Guess I can see how I feel tomorrow, and if I'm not WAY worse, potentially skip.

I thought tapers were supposed to mitigate any withdrawal symptoms lol?

 

[Vazkor]

How i did my taper, was (coming from 500mg daily) putting 2.5 gram in a half a liter bottle of water. Daily I took 100ml of that water and filled it up with tapwater. So I tapered 20% daily.

It wasn't pleasant, but it was doable.

10% weekly, especially when only using twice a week, seems a bit unnecessary.

Vazkor

 

[Hypoid]

Thanks for sharing. I'm going to see how I feel tomorrow - honestly I'm super sensitive to all this so I think it just feels worse for me, everyone's different, right ? Because again when I was doing that taper before it led to panic attacks, etc.

But good to know that so long as I don't increase doseage there's some way out. Feeling a lot better now, though EXTREMELY tired and still not hungry. If I feel even better tomorrow, I might skip and try to just get back to 2x a week and just see how my body feels as I go.

Never going to take this again - can't trust myself to cycle it. It's too good.

 

[Vazkor]

It's just a panic attack...

The first is the worst, the ones after it are usually less bad. The first (in my case) usually takes 5 hours, the ones after it are usually much shorter.

Just experiencing one, will learn you something about panic attacks too. Just remember: it's a panic attack, caused bij phenibut. Your dosages were low enough to not be in any real danger (and I would also have said this to you if you were using 4 times as much).

Vazkor

 

[Hypoid]

Thanks - yeah I keep telling myself I'm not in danger levels, but because I'm dependent on this so long as I keep taking my doses I'll be OK.

Now it's just conviction to stay strict on dosing schedule and taper and I'll be able to clear this. I knock on wood think the worst is over since I'm through the major doseage swings.

 

[Hypoid]

Dec 18th - Just an update, it's been a week since my 1g dose last Monday, took my break, and I did 0.3g Thurs, Sat, and today (Monday). But these doses make me feel BAD when I'm on them. I feel MORE anxious, MORE nauseous, etc.


Does this mean I've tapered too quickly, and need to up my doses, or that I should stop doing Phenibut altogether because everything is fucked? I don't want to make myself worse and go through the violent muscle shakes after the weekend/1g dose, but I can't keep going on like this...I don't sleep or eat much at all.


Can't believe I'm going through so much after only taking 0.5 and 1g on separate days, and then taking an extra dose once.


Phenibut Experts - What should I do ?

 

[Vastness]

I'm very surprised at the symptoms you are describing from the dosing you have described. I've been using Phenibut on and off for probably a good few years now, never huge doses, but sometimes up to 4 days in a row at 2g/day. I do think the phenibut withdrawal is creeping in that it sometimes creeps up on you a few days after your last dose, but I have never really had more severe problems than a week of anhedonia and anxious lethargy.

Forgive me, I know it probably doesn't feel like this to you bit I do think there is a nocebo-genic component to some of what you are feeling... I would also suggest that rather than tapering, you cold turkey and in the week afterwards just make sure to do a lot of physical exercise, eat healthily and just cultivate good mental habits.

Failing that (or as well as that) I don't know how you feel about other nootropics but I have used Tianeptine on occasion to ease anxiety that possibly resulted from mild Phenibut withdrawal.

 

[Vazkor]

What you should do?
In my opinion: stop phenibut, no further taper. You will have an unconfortable week. The week after that will be much better. In week 3 you can still notice some residual symptoms (waking up at night, sweating, minor anxiety/anhedonia). Week 4-5 you'll be as you were before you started using phenibut.

just stop...

 

[SirCraggles]

I don't understand how you're physically addicted whatsoever if you've only been using twice a week? It's just not possible for you to be physically addicted to phenibut from this level of use, and especially with the low doses that you've been using. I suggest you've either been using more phenibut than you've said, or it is psychological.

It does sound to me like you're perhaps over-thinking it and anticipating a withdrawal that just isn't there to the point that you're inducing your own symptoms.

You cannot get addicted to phenibut from this level of use.

 

[Vazkor]

I don't understand how you're physically addicted whatsoever if you've only been using twice a week? It's just not possible for you to be physically addicted to phenibut from this level of use, and especially with the low doses that you've been using. I suggest you've either been using more phenibut than you've said, or it is psychological.

It does sound to me like you're perhaps over-thinking it and anticipating a withdrawal that just isn't there to the point that you're inducing your own symptoms.

You cannot get addicted to phenibut from this level of use.

^qft

 

[Hypoid]

Just wanted to post a quick update for anybody who finds this...there was A LOT of other stuff going on that I didn't realize (mainly stress from running a business) that led to a major burnout/adrenal fatigue/feeling like a$$.

Phenibut added to this but wasn't the primary cause.


Thanks again for everyone who helped me during this/offered advice.

 

[psy997]

Check out Adrenal Fatigue, Hypoid.