Artificial Emotion
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What dose of loperamide do you personally use for opiate withdrawal?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Loperamide dose for withdrawal
- Thread starter Artificial Emotion
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dwagner0402
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I do not think we are allowed to talk dose size here. But keep in mind that Loperamide can become addicting as well and has it's own set of withdrawal symptoms...
Artificial Emotion
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Where does it say we can't discuss doses? I simply want to know how much it is safe to take.
Artificial Emotion
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CFC
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Yes, but divide the dose up throughout the day. Everyone differs in what dose works for them (and depends on opiate levels beforehand of course) but, as always, start out reasonably low and see how you fare. You can always add to a dose if it's not helping. Good luck.
MDPV_Psychosis
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It might be best to wait almost 2 hours before deciding that a redose is needed. It can take long time for loperamide to kick in fully, so if you get inpatient and decide after 30 minutes that you need a redose then you might actually be redosing more than what's needed.
It's important to try and get by on the lowest possible dose for several reasons. Most importantly, the health risks, like QT enlogation, are dose related. Also loperamide can raise opioid tolerance and can be insidiously addicting for some people. All good reasons to take as little as possible.
It's important to try and get by on the lowest possible dose for several reasons. Most importantly, the health risks, like QT enlogation, are dose related. Also loperamide can raise opioid tolerance and can be insidiously addicting for some people. All good reasons to take as little as possible.
Jekyl Anhydride
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^ Very solid advice all the way up. It's important to keep it as low as you can stand as the symptoms I've experienced with it were disturbing and others have reported them too. The QT elongation or Torsades de Pointes causes a general weakness if you try to climb stairs or exert yourself in any way. Another one is a strange horizontal nystagmus that develops when your eyes reach the limits of their ability to look left or right while the head is kept stationary. It's like they bounce a little when you look to one side and very creepy, nothing natural or safe about it. Granted in some it takes upwards of 60mg to manifest these symptoms but not in all. Proceed with caution..
alastasian
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If it matters any for 3 years now ive been at the varying dose of 244mg-400mg every 40 hours. This includes a buffer of 12 hours wait if need be. Ive noticed that varying the dose at these seemingly herculean levels for anyone else causes all types of benefits. Im 260pounds, 6', male and find these little bottles of 72, 120,200 pills allot less scary than i once did. Saying that hoever i dont suggest ANYONE do what im doing.
I was previously a network and systems engineer from 98-2011 when i was finally disabled due to lymphoma. Enter a cadre of mild manner opiates and ending with prescribed oxymorphone and hydromorphone (120 each) which only covered about half the month anyway. I worked allot and well ive been told. 12-16hr days without worry.
My problem was simple: the DEA shut down my doc. Hmm..that was not fun. Not at all. Of course diamorphine shows up without fail and im humming along on a 250/day habit. At the time i wasproducing 400/day so i saw it the way a diabetic sees an expensive insulin regime: expensive but there is zero play without it. Funny enough thats when i noticed that my habit would get shittonne worse if i kept the same dose every day.
At this point i use loperamide exclusively opioid-wise as ANY other opioid with binding strength less than loperamide itself (whatever its Ki values are) initiates some WD unpleasentness. Examples are: stopping lope for four days with 60 tramadol to give a break - and then worried about serotonin syndrome. Result: 20% withdrawl all the time even with taking 3A4 inhibitors to induce 2D6 to make M1 (o-desmethyl-tram). One pain doc gave me 120 10mg hydrocodone/norcos which then the following month he switched to 10mg oxys. Result: some receptor sites simply were not happy at not being binded to is my guess (forgive this engineer for trying to figure everything out - its my worst failing) as 60-120mg hydro OR oxy (yeah APAP - CWE) did the kindness of working for 2-3hrs and put me yet again in opiate purgatory with 20% withdrawl symptoms. I stopped going to the costly pain management doc as in the end all a short acting opioid did was make me WORSE. I would use them as forced loperamide vacations. Suddenly anything less potent than dilaudid (at 16mg IV i get what in my monster using days would take 24-32mg - that has me "content" not euphoric (never got that anyway at ANY dose - just serenity and energy) - but whatever - i dont beleive in happiness as long as the DEA causes so much pain.
I would love to do a AMA on loperamide. I wonder if id be a good case study. Oh any my heart? No super elongated QT cycle - i get that checked every 6 months - but one close to concerning: 450ms. From my understanding if interred in a hospital they dont let u go unless your 500 or below. Presentations with lop OD have been as high at 700ms requiring some temporal pacemaker action.
Now if i DONT vary the dosage milligram at the 30-35hr mark - then ALL the OPs and your symptoms are mine: from blurred peripheral vision; eyes feel "stuck" slightly at times, if i pick up anything over 100 pounds (even me from a chair) then i most certainly will have temp. WD for about 30-45 seconds set in the form of pins/needles. I just painted myself into a corner. Smart enough to be dangerous? Heck the fuck yeah. Dont be me kids.
Basically im using varying doses of loperamide at 244-400mg with piperidine (water/3g black pepper), 5,000mg of tumeric, grapefruit juice and cycling milk thistle for liver support periodically. Principally im inhibiting to a greater (mechanisim based) or lower (chemical) base extent CYP3A4, P-gp, CYP2C8, as well enhancing the whole operation by taking chemical breaks.
I dont have any other choice given the opiate climate. But hey - it could be worse. It can always be worse.
Cordially,
Alastasian/i4004
RIP alt.drugs.hard (2005-2010)
Still love you MobiusDick
Jose you still suck lol
PS: Cytotoxic in literature or not ive been on it for years now with the method above. theories aside i shit normally - right after morning dose. no toxic megacolon, no felt tachycardias (...yet), no EKG with excessive prolonged QT intervals due to hERG channel antagonization, no issues apart from slight tolerance. The DEA makes everything apart from this a problem; and i really don't see a pain doc willing to prescribe >24mg of hydromorphone a day apart from hospice or dark web - and in both a professional user will get fucked over with time aka IMHO not sustainable long term. Living with theses needs, all the while life demanding everything now: and starting over isnt an option type shit. High dose short term opioids agonists are next to impossible to acquire outside a rap video in the current "Doctors are Businessmen First" climate (q42018) so i stick to what works and work around the systemic/cholinergic issues my mind can see. And boy so i feel like im driving blind with this at times...
if there were a study for pain management using loperamide alone i think id be an excellent candidate as i am not a polydrug user anymore and am an actual good example of the cycles following the high functioning opiate addict choosing high dose loperamide over short acting *anything*.
I was previously a network and systems engineer from 98-2011 when i was finally disabled due to lymphoma. Enter a cadre of mild manner opiates and ending with prescribed oxymorphone and hydromorphone (120 each) which only covered about half the month anyway. I worked allot and well ive been told. 12-16hr days without worry.
My problem was simple: the DEA shut down my doc. Hmm..that was not fun. Not at all. Of course diamorphine shows up without fail and im humming along on a 250/day habit. At the time i wasproducing 400/day so i saw it the way a diabetic sees an expensive insulin regime: expensive but there is zero play without it. Funny enough thats when i noticed that my habit would get shittonne worse if i kept the same dose every day.
At this point i use loperamide exclusively opioid-wise as ANY other opioid with binding strength less than loperamide itself (whatever its Ki values are) initiates some WD unpleasentness. Examples are: stopping lope for four days with 60 tramadol to give a break - and then worried about serotonin syndrome. Result: 20% withdrawl all the time even with taking 3A4 inhibitors to induce 2D6 to make M1 (o-desmethyl-tram). One pain doc gave me 120 10mg hydrocodone/norcos which then the following month he switched to 10mg oxys. Result: some receptor sites simply were not happy at not being binded to is my guess (forgive this engineer for trying to figure everything out - its my worst failing) as 60-120mg hydro OR oxy (yeah APAP - CWE) did the kindness of working for 2-3hrs and put me yet again in opiate purgatory with 20% withdrawl symptoms. I stopped going to the costly pain management doc as in the end all a short acting opioid did was make me WORSE. I would use them as forced loperamide vacations. Suddenly anything less potent than dilaudid (at 16mg IV i get what in my monster using days would take 24-32mg - that has me "content" not euphoric (never got that anyway at ANY dose - just serenity and energy) - but whatever - i dont beleive in happiness as long as the DEA causes so much pain.
I would love to do a AMA on loperamide. I wonder if id be a good case study. Oh any my heart? No super elongated QT cycle - i get that checked every 6 months - but one close to concerning: 450ms. From my understanding if interred in a hospital they dont let u go unless your 500 or below. Presentations with lop OD have been as high at 700ms requiring some temporal pacemaker action.
Now if i DONT vary the dosage milligram at the 30-35hr mark - then ALL the OPs and your symptoms are mine: from blurred peripheral vision; eyes feel "stuck" slightly at times, if i pick up anything over 100 pounds (even me from a chair) then i most certainly will have temp. WD for about 30-45 seconds set in the form of pins/needles. I just painted myself into a corner. Smart enough to be dangerous? Heck the fuck yeah. Dont be me kids.
Basically im using varying doses of loperamide at 244-400mg with piperidine (water/3g black pepper), 5,000mg of tumeric, grapefruit juice and cycling milk thistle for liver support periodically. Principally im inhibiting to a greater (mechanisim based) or lower (chemical) base extent CYP3A4, P-gp, CYP2C8, as well enhancing the whole operation by taking chemical breaks.
I dont have any other choice given the opiate climate. But hey - it could be worse. It can always be worse.
Cordially,
Alastasian/i4004
RIP alt.drugs.hard (2005-2010)
Still love you MobiusDick
Jose you still suck lol
PS: Cytotoxic in literature or not ive been on it for years now with the method above. theories aside i shit normally - right after morning dose. no toxic megacolon, no felt tachycardias (...yet), no EKG with excessive prolonged QT intervals due to hERG channel antagonization, no issues apart from slight tolerance. The DEA makes everything apart from this a problem; and i really don't see a pain doc willing to prescribe >24mg of hydromorphone a day apart from hospice or dark web - and in both a professional user will get fucked over with time aka IMHO not sustainable long term. Living with theses needs, all the while life demanding everything now: and starting over isnt an option type shit. High dose short term opioids agonists are next to impossible to acquire outside a rap video in the current "Doctors are Businessmen First" climate (q42018) so i stick to what works and work around the systemic/cholinergic issues my mind can see. And boy so i feel like im driving blind with this at times...
if there were a study for pain management using loperamide alone i think id be an excellent candidate as i am not a polydrug user anymore and am an actual good example of the cycles following the high functioning opiate addict choosing high dose loperamide over short acting *anything*.
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ufukingprick
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I thought immodium was cardio toxic if accumulated over several hours.
alastasian
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Remember that human body and liver phenotypes vary; so cytotoxic for one is "chemically dependant" aka you have changed the manner in which your body copes with this reality-type chemicals we all use at times. i weigh 260lbs. it works as described in my post above. what can i say. Im even impressed by its metabolite dLOP as by this point i have that more than anything else in my system as ive been "supplementing" all this by taking montelukast sodium (anticolestorol drug i found in a dumpster when someone got kicked out - yeah life has me on that) 10mg/day) exclusively to lower CYP2C8 activity based on some past research done - and no not in the darknet; although that does have its place. If anyones interested montelukast sodium at 10mg/day empirically extends the opiate-action by a functional 20% on average.
All this to be able to pick up my son and see him smile. Sheesh - is this *really* 2018?
All this to be able to pick up my son and see him smile. Sheesh - is this *really* 2018?
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There's not going to be a truly definitive, one-size-fits-all answer to this question. I understand if you're just looking for an aggregate kind answer, but because Loperamide (Immodium) is itself, an Opioid and its effects as an Opioid agonist are what produce its withdrawal mitigating effects, the dosage required for said relief is going to vary widely from person to person. However, this isn't the only issue involved with Loperamide. For a few years, we had an attitude that more or less stated, take as much Loperamide as you feel like if you can handle the constipation, but this isn't the case.
We've seen a proliferation of deaths and misadventures over the past few years related to high-dose use of Loperamide. The dosage must be kept as low as possible, as the risk of cardiotoxicity is real. For a less important reason, using too much Loperamide will only stall or prolong the process of withdrawal.
I personally don't use Loperamide anymore. I find that it does more harm than good in a lot of ways. Gabapentinoids, Cannabis and Clonidine are the most important for me. They mitigate a lot of my symptoms and don't prolong the process in the way Loperamide does.
We've seen a proliferation of deaths and misadventures over the past few years related to high-dose use of Loperamide. The dosage must be kept as low as possible, as the risk of cardiotoxicity is real. For a less important reason, using too much Loperamide will only stall or prolong the process of withdrawal.
I personally don't use Loperamide anymore. I find that it does more harm than good in a lot of ways. Gabapentinoids, Cannabis and Clonidine are the most important for me. They mitigate a lot of my symptoms and don't prolong the process in the way Loperamide does.
Yes, even as little as 16mg loperamide would start mild wd's next day for me. I wouldn't recommend to use it.
sonicwhite
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I hear there going to start cracking down on this too. I mean we all know the opiate epidemic in the US and in the world.
I?ve only had pharmacy Imodium and it gave me a headache the second time I tried to relieve my Kratom withdrawal but the first time was fantastic.
I?ve only had pharmacy Imodium and it gave me a headache the second time I tried to relieve my Kratom withdrawal but the first time was fantastic.
Yes its really fantastic when you have zero opioid tolerance. I would say much stronger than tramadol. I mean high dosage like 200mg. Some people think it won't make you shit for one week, but it really does not different from any other ooioid, next day you can shit again.
Pickledlemons
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I use 6 - 12 2mg tablets.
