• TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT

How much longer?

jalara

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
24
I am on day 16 of no Dilaudid after a slow taper from 4mg. I take an Ativan and Ambien at night. Each night I get just a few hours sleep and when I wake up just a couple hours after taking them I have wicked anxiety. Pain in chest, rapid heart rate. Have to talk my heart rate down. How much long will I be feeling this insane antic and anxiety?
I’d like to start tapering off Ativan soon but I cantnwhioe I feel so horrible. I can barely function a lot of the time.
 
I'm just about in your shoes. I'm on day 15 off heroin, not taking any kind of benzos and it's terrible, I'm experiencing the exact same. Barely any sleep, extreme anxiety in the mornings. I'm not really sure how I can help cause I haven't found the answer either, but you aren't alone in this. Maybe try getting up and going outside when you feel the anxiety coming on, for me it doesn't make it abate but it seems to help. I also keep hearing exercise is key after ditching opiates, getting those natural endorphins back. Maybe include some of that in your daily routine as well?
 
Yes, absolutely, exercise will help your body produce a lot more endorphins, which is what you're lacking now (opiate addiction messes with your body's natural opiate system, which is endorphins). Working on regularly makes everything easier both physially and mentally/emotionally. It's SO important. Even if you have low energy, just start doing it. Especially cardio is important.

As for the benzos, be careful. Benzo physical addiction is much more severe than opiate physical addiction, and takes much longer to get off of.
 
I'm just about in your shoes. I'm on day 15 off heroin, not taking any kind of benzos and it's terrible, I'm experiencing the exact same. Barely any sleep, extreme anxiety in the mornings. I'm not really sure how I can help cause I haven't found the answer either, but you aren't alone in this. Maybe try getting up and going outside when you feel the anxiety coming on, for me it doesn't make it abate but it seems to help. I also keep hearing exercise is key after ditching opiates, getting those natural endorphins back. Maybe include some of that in your daily routine as well?

You came off both at once? Can I ask how much benzo you were on and what kind? I guess if I feel this awful I can maybe start cutting down my ativan too.
 
You came off both at once? Can I ask how much benzo you were on and what kind? I guess if I feel this awful I can maybe start cutting down my ativan too.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I came off the heroin without any aids suchs as benzos. But Xorkoth is right, benzo withdrawal is very very serious, can lead to seizures and worse. I'd be very careful. I'm not sure how long you've been on the ativan, or what dosage, but if you want to start tapering I'd start with very small decreases ie 1mg to .75mg.
 
I went cold turkey off of high doses of benzos and opiates and had a psychotic episode. Full on hallucinations, hearing voices, seeing shit and completely delusional.

Acute withdrawal symptoms should be gone in a month but post-acute withdrawal can last for a couple years, but not usually that long.

Are you living a somewhat normal life, all things considered? it's important you start building healthy patterns and habits. The anxiety could be triggered by something else and just exacerbated by the WDs.
 
I went cold turkey off of high doses of benzos and opiates and had a psychotic episode. Full on hallucinations, hearing voices, seeing shit and completely delusional.

Acute withdrawal symptoms should be gone in a month but post-acute withdrawal can last for a couple years, but not usually that long.

Are you living a somewhat normal life, all things considered? it's important you start building healthy patterns and habits. The anxiety could be triggered by something else and just exacerbated by the WDs.

I have tons of stress in life so this may be helpful if I can deal with it better. Also have a serious illness I’m stuck with. Were your doses higher than 1mg Ativan and 4mg Dilaudid when you went cold turkey? I’m thinking of swapping phenergan for Ativan so I can maybe sleep and start the Benz taper or fully cut it.

or maybe see if I can switch from Cymbalta to Trazadone at night and cut the Ativan totally and Ambien by half?
 
Yeah... quite a bit. My doses would fluctuate quite a bit and the drugs I used would change depending on what was available, but my daily numbers were somewhere around 10-20mg of alprazolam, unsure of the amount of lorazepam, ~100mg of hydrocodone and or 30-90mg oxy, fentanyl patches, and I started smoking about a gram of black tar in 3-7 days. My numbers were all over the place, but that was about the average of what I could get consistently.

As far as I know, you need benzos to taper off of benzos. I've heard of people getting antiseizure, antipsychotics, antidepressants and sleep meds to help with a taper, but generally(from what I know) people are given benzos with longer half lifes for tapering. I think Ativan should be ok to taper from and don't believe that Phenergan is an appropriate substitute. It may help with some of the side effects, but I still think you should do a slow taper to be safe.

Dealing with a lot of stress while trying to do a quick taper is usually a recipe for disaster and failure... I would suggest taking it slow and moving one step at a time until you are comfortable enough to move to the next step. It will be less disruptive to your life and will be more likely that you are successful.

I don't really have any insight on cymbalta and trazadone, but again, I think the safest thing to do would be to slowly step off the Ativan then once fully off Ativan allow your body a week or so to adjust before beginning to slowly step off the ambien. These are things that should be discussed with a medical professional who is knowledgeable in the subject. If your doctor is clueless I think it would be a good idea to either consult another doctor or to speak to the pharmacist. There are definitely people out there who can give you more specific advice than I can.
 
Find some gabapentin, clonidine and diazepam (and also a non-narcotic sleep aid). All that stuff will get you comfortably through withdrawal. Buprenorphine, at least for the acute withdrawal, is also a really good idea. One can get through nearly any kind of opioid withdrawal manageably with the buprenorphine+gabapentin+clonidine+diazepam+sleep aid combo. Common non-narcotic sleep aids used for this purpose include trazadone and Seroquel.

A taper on something like clonazepam or diazepam would probably be more useful for coming off the lorazepam, but I tend to see people have more success coming off the opioids, and then even more slowly coming off the benzos.

Promethazine isn't particular dangerous and in some sense could be considered a sort of anti-psychotic at certain doses. If you are only sleeping four hours a night, I'd frankly suggest you add the promethazine to your lorazepam, see if it doesn't help you get more sleep, and then possibly taking it for a week or two until you're clear of acute opioid withdrawal. Antihistamines like promethazine can increase RLS during acute withdrawal, so treat lightly.

Please try and take your time with the benzos and coming off them. The more time you take getting off benzos is more time you've invested in the manageability of your long term recovery.

Substituting lorazepam with promethazine is not at all a good idea. Adding promethazine to you current meds to help see if it can get you more sleep, but it isn't enough to substitute for a benzo.

In terms of getting off benzos, your best bet is a slow taper using a longer acting benzo (diazepam is ideal, but clonazepam is commonly used). The slow taper is really what is most essential when it comes to getting off benzos. That, and certain medications to help with possible side effects of coming off too fast (like seizures).
 
Top