Set an appointment for the Coleman Institute

[ElleAZ]

Rapid Detox under medical supervision in three days.

two days being sedated at home

third day pushes all opioids out of body

as I am a new user of 9 weeks and do not crave the drug or want to be high, minimal risk of addiction issues.

Has anyone done this?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Very few people out there have done this. Generally speaking it is a rather ineffective way to detox. It can also be dangerous. It is also very expensive.

Something to consider if you do this is that it won’t help with longer withdrawal symptoms, and you’ll still feel some after the rapid detox. In other words, rapid detoxes on really help with some of the acute withdrawal - it doesn’t get you through all the withdrawal. Your body will still feel rather beat up after they use an antagonist to “push” other opioids out of your system.

Something else to consider is how you’ll manage after the detox ends. The detox is actually probably the easiest part of getting sober, it is much more challenging to maintain ongoing recovery post detox.

If you end up lapsing or using opioids after your rapid detox, be very very careful. You’ll have zero tolerance, and it isn’t uncommon for folks to lapse after the procedure only to end up ODing.

Do you have plans for post detox? What led you to want to do a rapid detox?

I’ll do some research on the folks you’re planning to do this with and report back. From a rather selfish standpoint, it is cool someone is trying this on SL because we have had so few members who go this route for the reason I mentioned earlier. But it will be nice to have a case report from someone who tried it for others to use in their research if you do decide to go through with it.

Edit: so after checking them out, like most business in the recovery industrial complex they make a lot of very deceiving claims. For instance, their 98% success rate for detox is highly misleading and essentially meaningless. It’s isnt actually as hard as you may think to detox successfully, or at least compared to maintaining recovery post detox is far more challenging long term, and this program doesn’t give you anything substantial other than naltrexone to help with this (and that is hardly something I’d really consider as substantial in terms of treatment).

And their bit about being able to get over withdrawal in just three days - simply untrue and misleading. Also their program using Vivitrol/naltrexone post treatment won’t do anything for you except prevent you from getting high. This is useful because it can help prevent OD if you use following the treatment as is very common, but it will do zero in terms of cravings or mental health support.

Basically I’d strongly suggest giving this a hard thought. Perhaps share the reasons this sounds good to you and we can help you weigh the pro’s and con’s. I am loath to encourage people to try this approach when there are safer and more effective ways to detox, but we will do whatever we can to support whatever choice you want to pursue. After all, it is your own recovery.

Sharing more about the nature of you drug use and what treatments you’ve tried before would also be helpful in figure that out.

The ultra rapid detox is far more dangerous than what you’re thinking of trying, but this accelerated detox also has a lot of risks and issues with. IMO there are more effective ways to manage your detox that will help you get more established in early recovery than what theyre suggesting. At the very least I’d strongly recommend you do a 90 Day IOP program following this.

They present naltrexone as an effective way of maintaining abstience - this simply isn’t true. It will prevent you from feeling the affects of opioids if you relapse while on it, but it won’t do anything for cravings or the issues people normally struggle with in early recovery. If you feel all you need is something that will prevent you from getting high, give it a shot. But don’t expect a panacea. Naltrexone is actually significantly less effective at promoting recovery than buprenorphine and methadone are when used properly, despite how companies and lawmakers present it as some ideal solution. Hardly...

Disclaimer: programs like this piss me off. They present as some ideal solution to detox and recovery but that is extremely disingenuous.

I just hate treatment providers who lie to their patients (one example of this place lying to patients is when they present naltrexone as effective with dealing with “intense cravings.” I’m sorry but any help it will provide will be entirely placebo, in terms of it helping only in the sense that you may be less tempted to use (a big if) simply because you know you won’t be able to feel opioids). BL is full of folks who are trying to figure out how to get high from opioids while on naltrexone, and this speaks volumes to its effectiveness in terms of managing of suppressing cravings. B.S.

IMHO you’d be better detoxing inpatient or outpatient with more effective meds than doing this, but we will support you whatever you choose.

Different things work for different people. This might be exactly the right treatment for you right now, but because of the vested interest that company has in taking your money, it would be very ill advised to take their suggestions about what is best for you with a grain of salt. That kind of unprofessional behavior is super common among business that make money off recovery though, very par for the course.

The point I want to get across is that you have A LOT of options. Personally I don’t think this one is a best choice, but what’s most important is you decide for yourself what you need. Get lots of feedback from your peers (like us), get feedback from another doctor who has well recognized practice, etc. What’s most important is you make up your mind what you want to do, set yourself some goals (with the help of people who are well informed about this stuff, and then alter your goals as you find necessary.

 

[Alldonewithit]

I watched some videos of this type of detox. Afterwards tge people were still dressed with blankets wrapped around them, and not looking that great. So, don't think its going to be a smooth ride, you'll feel the wds after, just not the strong stuff.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes. It isn’t uncommon for people to still need treatment for withdrawal symptoms that can linger for a while, especially if you’re coming off a longer acting opioid without tapering.

Something else to highlight is that aftercare programs following treatment are notoriously ineffective across the board with all forms of treatment. You cannot expect you’ll be able to rely on their company to organize effective aftercare for yourself. Ultimately you’ll be the best situated to organize your own aftercare, and finding your own supportive communities is probably the best thing you could do for yourself in early recovery.

I’d be curious to learn more about the meds they give you to take at home the first two days.

Also I forgot to mention another downside to rapid detoxes - they might be a little short than normal (although not so much when lingering symptoms are accounted for), but they also tend to involve more discomfort.

There is a reason they use anesthetics to put people under who do the ultra rapid version. If you are conscious when they “flush” you’d system with naltrexone, it may be extremely uncomfortable. And the downside of using anesthetic is that it is very dangerous to the patient.

 

[simco]

I wanted to echo TPD’s cautions about rapid detox.

It really is the case that in the end, acute withdrawal is less of a hurdle than learning to live without opiates is.

I feel like I have a slightly unusual vantage on what you’re considering because I actually did rely on naltrexone (for about 7 months) after I quit heroin. If anyone tells you that naltrexone will keep you clean, they’re either lying or wrong. For me naltrexone was a small help. But it was no substitute for serious personal change.

I don’t want to quash your enthusiasm. If this program gets you excited about your recovery, that’s awesome. But please try to keep in mind that nobody holds magic keys to recovery. It’s unfortunate but there are a lot of people out there who hope to profit by telling folks like us otherwise.

The good news, though, is that doing the hard work of getting stronger is totally doable. It’s hard but you can do it.

 

[ElleAZ]

Thank you all. This echoes the opinion of my family doctor who put me on bupe to get off the oxycontin.

 

[simco]

If you do end up exploring the rapid detox, I will be very interested to hear about it.

But I do think that a well-designed bupe taper along with some comfort meds will be more helpful.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I still encourage you to spend some time thinking about how you’ll move forward with your life after detox.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Rapid detoxes are probably something you shouldn't attempt, and will have a high relapse rate.

 

[kelleyjo333]

Hi guys, new to the group. I joined so I could get some honest answers and maybe find someone who has done this. My husband and I have been in the methadone clinic consistently for 5 years. We have been able to recover jobs and live pretty normal lives. We have both kept those jobs, made friends, recovered to regular life. We are so tired of being shackled to the clinic and losing so much money, $400 a month each. We would like to do rapid detox because we simply don't want to loss jobs or take the next year to come down milligram by milligram. I don't think we have to worry about relapse after 5 years and just want to be done with it all. Thank you all for you input and sharing your honest opinions.

 

[ElleAZ]

I didn’t see any true complaints about Coleman Institute. This is an accelerated 3 day detox, not the single day process generally thought of. It was $7400 for AZ.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi guys, new to the group. I joined so I could get some honest answers and maybe find someone who has done this. My husband and I have been in the methadone clinic consistently for 5 years. We have been able to recover jobs and live pretty normal lives. We have both kept those jobs, made friends, recovered to regular life. We are so tired of being shackled to the clinic and losing so much money, $400 a month each. We would like to do rapid detox because we simply don't want to loss jobs or take the next year to come down milligram by milligram. I don't think we have to worry about relapse after 5 years and just want to be done with it all. Thank you all for you input and sharing your honest opinions.

Rapid or ultra rapid detoxes are probably on the worst ways of coming off methadone. I'm sorry to break the bad news, but there isn't a way to get off methadone after being on it that long than a taper. That is the only way you'll be able to continue with your day-to-responsibilities while coming off (taper). The slower you taper the more manageable it will be.

After about six months I went up from 30mg to 90mg. Then, very slowly (taking breaks from tapering when necessary), I spent the next two years tapering off my methadone. It was amazing how much better I felt at 60mg compared to how I felt at 90mg, and it was even more amazing how I felt around the 20mg mark. But this is only the case because I was kind with my body in making the transition down. If you do it too fast the body isn't going to be happy (to say the least).

Your other options is to detox to a dose of about 30mg and then transition to buprenorphine for an extended detox. Frankly though your best bet is (a) slow taper, (b) taking a week or two off from the taper if a drop is too much to handle (i.e. you notice some minor symptoms of withdrawal sometime when you drop, but if they don't go away with two or three days or are more than mild you should either stay on that dose for until you stabilize or increase your dose a few mg), (c) don't reduce your dose more than once a week, (d) once you get to around 60mg it's best to taper 1mg/week (you could get around to tapering 2mg/week at this point, but definitely when you get to 40-30mg, then you should absolutely reduce your dose by no more than 1mg/week).

Ask your methadone clinic to help you with a blind taper. That just means they won't remind you of your dose each time you see the dosing nurse. You'll know what dose you're taken (for a variety of reason), but not being reminded verbally from the nurse can help some people a lot.

The reason rapid detoxes are not great options, particularly for coming off buprenorphine and methadone, two very long lasting opioids, is because it takes a lot long for your body to adjust to not having opioids filling the opioid receptors throughout you body. Plus with methadone, they have to wait longer than 2 days before they induce treatment with naltrexone. Methadone takes a full five days to really begin peaking in withdrawal, and if you take a full antagonist prior to them you're just asking for precipitated withdrawal.

I'm sorry to say, but outside trying kratom and buprenorphine to get off methadone, you're only (and best) option is just a slow, methodical taper. If you feel like it is costing you too much, just consider how much more would be burdened financially if you were to relapse after spending a pretty petty on a rapid detox, as well as having to deal with the symptoms you're still be experiencing post rapid detox. Think of the money you are investing with a proper methadone taper as investing in your sobriety, recovery, health and wellbeing.

Tapering is also a great time to prepare for the final detox and organize folks who can get you the comfort meds you'll need for detoxing from methadone (buprenorphine, gabapentin, clonidine, diazepam, etc).

I didn’t see any true complaints about Coleman Institute. This is an accelerated 3 day detox, not the single day process generally thought of. It was $7400 for AZ.

What do you mean you haven't heard any complaints? Rapid detoxes are dangerous and ineffective, although less dangerous than their ultra rapid context. My main beef with the Coleman institute is that their website is highly misleading in terms of what they claim, with more than out outright lie.

Doing research on this stuff from treatment community professionals, particularly with opioid use disorder, is problematic because the material they provide on their treatments is more about advertising how their program is better than another.

The issue with doing research on anti-ORT forums is problematic because you only hear from people who struggled getting off. You don't get a chance to hear from most folks, like myself, who have been able to manageably come off methadone successfully because these people have moved on with their lives, past methadone/opioid/drug use.

Only good place to do research on this stuff is peer reviewed medical journals (see http://www.ijdp.org limited material on your issues, but some of their articles it may help), although by the same token these studies can also be highly misleading (there was an article posted in DiTM about how naltrexone was as or more effective than buprenorphine, even though after reading the study it actually concluded that buprenorphine is the more effective medication).

There are just so many financially and/or politically vest interested in a lot what people share/research about substance use disorder or drug use, you just have to learn to do very careful research.

Always remind yourself who the people disseminating the info and whether the info they're preventing serves their interests. If it's in the financial interest of who ever is disseminating the info, that is a big red flag you need to do more research.

 

[ElleAZ]

I just meant about Coleman. The one day detoxes are awful. I though the three day would be better but not if it somehow dumps you into Day 4! Reminds me of when my epidural ran out before it was time to give birth.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes, most of my remarks applied to their three day rapid detox. The difference between the ultra rapid and rapid detox seems mainly that with the ultra rapid they put you under, whereas you're just sedated for the rapid detox (their website is vague about this aspect of treatment...).

But yes, it does sound like what it would feel like for an epidural to run out before or just as someone was giving birth... doesn't sound like fun at all.

I'd definitely suggest you look into more tried and true methods, especially if you don't have a crazy habit the standard comfort meds should get you by just fine.