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Trying to make sense of what anti psychotics have done to my brain

washingtonbound

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
416
Hi all, just writing in cause I’m hoping to get some insight on some medications I’ve received involuntarily. After having my first psychotic break in 2014, I’ve had several other involuntary psych hospital visits, primarily attributed to my insistence to continue recreational use of lsd and ketamine. Anyway, as the “mania,” or whatever label you want to call it escalated, I received stronger backlash from doctors. I have been forcibly injected to date with at least six or seven chemicals that I did not even know existed. Anyway, after looking up the molecular formula for a few of these I noticed a pattern: adjoined carbon, iron, and nitrogen molecules. I will see CIN in the formula, like this: C17H19(ClN)2S or this: C22H25(ClN)2OS Sometimes I will see fluoride, like in a long term haldol injection I received a year ago C21H23(ClFNO)2
Those are a few examples of shit I have been shot with, can someone with a more in depth chem/neuroscience background explain to me what means if CIN together in a formula? Is there something about that kind of molecule that has a particular effect on the brain? Cause I’ve only noticed it with anti psychotics.
Thanks.
My knowledge on this stuff is limited so I hope I conveyed my question clearly.
 
I noticed a pattern: adjoined carbon, iron, and nitrogen molecules

First off, the symbol for iron is Fe (form the Latin word for iron, ferrum), the "CI" you're reading is actually big-C little-L, Cl, for chlorine.
Secondly, "empirical" formulas like the ones you listed don't provide anything except the relative ratios of atoms present, which unfortunately is not enough to determine any chemical properties besides maybe what gases you'll have left if you burn it completely. In fact, the empirical formula doesn't provide any information on connectivity. The reason you're noticing the common pattern of C, H, Cl, N, S in that order is because that's how empirical formulas are written, starting with carbons then hydrogens then the remaining elements in descending alphabetical order.
Third, it's impossible to predict how drugs will effect someone if all you know is the name/structure of the drug. The dose, set, and setting all are key players in a drug's effect profile. And the presence/absence of single atoms, like fluorine, don't mean that the compound will e.g. release fluoride in the body - the whole molecule is more than the sum of its constituent atoms.

I do have sympathy for you, though. Haldol is Not Fun and something I wouldn't wish on anyone. As for how it effects the brain, single injections of antipsychotics for treatment of mania/drug-induced states are probably not mentally good but physically rather benign. Long-term, chronic treatment is much worse, especially at high doses.
 
The other drugs I mentioned in my post are chlorpromazine and brand name clopixol, and clopixol is not even legal here in the US. Perhaps I was noticing a pattern of chlorine and flouride, but I don't know exactly what that means.
 
The other drugs I mentioned in my post are chlorpromazine and brand name clopixol, and clopixol is not even legal here in the US. Perhaps I was noticing a pattern of chlorine and flouride, but I don't know exactly what that means.

If I told you a tool is made from x grams of wood and y grams of iron, that tells you little about its function. A spear could have the same composition as a scythe. A corkscrew could have the same composition as a spoon. A chest could have the same composition as a wagon-wheel. A rifle could have the same composition as a pickaxe.

What's more important than the empirical formula is the structural formula (the ones with the zigzag lines and the hexagons). Almost all pharmaceuticals are "organic" (i.e. carbon-based) compounds, usually with nitrogen (N) and oxygen (O) atoms in them.
Fluorine and Chlorine belong to a group of elements called "halogens" (which is also where the "halo" in "haloperidol" comes from), which are also used in organic chemistry; however, the presence of these elements in a molecule alone tells you very little about its function. Chlorine, for example, is present in ketamine (a dissociative), chloramphenicol (an antibiotic), diazepam (a sedative), U-47700 (an opioid), sertraline (an antidepressant), bendamustine (an anti-cancer-drug), 25C-NBOMe (a hallucinogen), clephedrone (a stimulant), and many, many, many more.

There is such a thing as a "structure-activity-relationship", but it's far more complex than "chlorine + carbon = antipsychotic".

At any rate, the way antipsychotics work in your brain is to basically block specific receptors from being activated. The ones they give administer to acutely psychotic people tend to be the older ones, which are less specific in their action - sure the side-effects (like the shaking that arises from blocking too many dopamine receptors) may be highly unpleasant, but they are also undeniably effective. In the long term, patients are usually switched to "atypical" (i.e. newer, more selective) antipsychotics, as these tend to be more well-tolerated.
 
Thanks for your info. I have a decent understand on what anti psychotics do to the brain, I was just curious if there were any patterns in the empirical formulas of different drugs I’ve been injected with. From what I gather, being able to infer that chlorine and fluorine are in some anti psychotics doesn’t really tell you much. Glad I could clarify that.
 
Thanks for your info. I have a decent understand on what anti psychotics do to the brain, I was just curious if there were any patterns in the empirical formulas of different drugs I’ve been injected with. From what I gather, being able to infer that chlorine and fluorine are in some anti psychotics doesn’t really tell you much. Glad I could clarify that.

If you've got the time for a little pharmacology lesson: Two of the drugs you mentioned do indeed share significant structural similarities:

This is Chlorpromazine:
244px-Chlorpromazine.svg.png

This is Zuclopentixol ("Clopixol")
316px-Zuclopenthixol.svg.png


Chlorpromazine is a Phenothiazine (i.e. the top middle ring contains both sulfur and nitrogen), while Zuclopentixol is a Thioxanthene (the top middle ring contains sulfur and a carbon atom connected via a double bond).
Together these two related groups probably make up the bulk of the old-timey (so-called "typical") antipsychotics. While the principal action is the same (i.e. antagonizing the fuck out of those histamine/serotonin/dopamine receptors), it is still possible to adjust the relative affinities for specific receptor subtypes (as well as things like potentency and duration of action) by tweaking the molecule.

As you can see from the molecules above, it is possible to, for example, replace the nitrogen in the top ring with a carbon. Or to take the amine (the bottom nitrogen) and replace it with a piperazine (a ring with two nitrogens in it), and it will still work.
In some cases, this has resulted in drugs whose short duration of action and selectivity for histamine receptors basically rules them out as antipsychotics, but makes them useful as sleep aids or antiemetics, like Prothipendyl and Promethazine.

The other drug you mentioned, Haloperidol, belongs to other major family of old-timey antipsychotics, called "butyrophenones".
320px-Haloperidol.svg.png


As I said, "halo" stands for "halogen", and the drug owes its name to the fact that it contains two of them: Fluorine and chlorine. It is also possible to replace one of these with a different halogen, ex. replacing chlorine with bromine, which would give you bromperidol.

Maybe this could inspire you to take an interest in chemistry (I know it did for me). For example, by looking at the periodic table, you can tell that nitrogen is next to carbon, so it makes sense that there would be situations where the two can be used interchangeably. You can also see that fluorine, chlorine, and bromine are in the same column, indicating similar chemical properties.

Also, note that "fluorine" is not the same as "fluoride". The former is the element, the latter is the ion. Basically, fluorine really, really, craves a single electron, so elemental fluorine will readily react with other substances to form fluoride ions. In organic chemistry, however, the fluorine can get its electron fix by forming a bond with carbon, and once it's done that, it will be very, very, unwilling to ever let go. You've probably also handled a polymer that makes use of these extremely strong bonds - it's called tetrafluoroethylene, or "teflon".
So the irony is that fluorine is often used in organic chemistry precisely because it can NOT be split off as an ion (just in case you buy into those theories about the NWO fluoridating the ground water to calcify our pineal glands).
 
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Wow hodor, thanks a lot for your input. That’s some of the best info I’ve gotten on pharmacology since I started using this site. I’m going to have to pick your brain on some other questions I have.
 
Wow hodor, thanks a lot for your input. That’s some of the best info I’ve gotten on pharmacology since I started using this site. I’m going to have to pick your brain on some other questions I have.

No problem :)

Btw, here's another fun factoid:
The guy who figured out that the efficacy of a typical antipsychotic was proportional to the parkinson's-like side-effects experienced by the patient was one Dr H. J. Haase. When the first atypical antipsychotic (clozapine) came out and was shown to be highly effective against mania and psychosis despite introducing little to no shaking, its inventors were obviously gleeful about being able to debunk Haase's paradigm. So gleeful, in fact, that they chose the trade name "Leponex", which is Latin for "rabbitkiller" - in "honor" of Ha(a)se, whose name is German for "rabbit".

(it should be noted in defense of Haase that his discovery still allowed European doctors to be much more conservative when prescribing antipsychotics than their American colleagues, which tended to go with significantly higher doses).
 
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