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Chronic relapser. 2 days sober, again. Some background. Looking for advice

O

Ozneb718

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
5
Hi guys, this is my first post/thread here on bluelight, so I hope im posting in the right place.

Basically since 2014 I have been to treatment about 9-10 times, countless detoxes and sober livings as well. About a year and a half ago i moved to California to treatment from New York. But things havent changed much... I guess my problems follow me wherever I go as they say.

So I have been addicted to opiates since 16 ( i am 25 now), at around 19 i switched over to heroin.. I also tend to do other drugs but the main DOC is Heroin... this past relapse I started using the needle, and added Meth to the mix.. I currently have 2 days sober.
I tried the whole 12 step thing but I honestly cant stand it even though i know it works..
I currently take meds for anxiety and depression, but the truth is they dont seem to be helping much... Zoloft, Gabapentin, Buspar..

I need any advice or help I can get.


(I apoligize for the scattered statements, Im just a bit all over the place lately)
 
Is there anything specific about 12 steps that you don't like? I personally don't believe in god or even a higher power, but I think there is benefit to being around people who have similar struggles and goals.

We are creatures of habits so we tend to perpetuate the momentum we have set forth on. Recovery from substance use disorders is about a lot more than just abstaining from drug use. It is important to understand and address the things that keep driving you to use drugs, likely it is more than just enjoying the feeling of being high. Most of use are trying to escape or manage problems through drug use.

Some simple things you can do to help build a healthy lifestyle are proper nutrition and exercise. Make sure you are eating balanced meals on regular intervals and getting exercise every day.

Removing stress was a big part of my recovery. I ended up giving up my occupation and going back to school. I am less focused on money and the notion of success now, instead I find more satisfaction in pursuing more altruistic goals.

But really, all of those things won't really do much until you resolve the deeper issues that are driving you back to drug use. They might help lead you to a resolution, but will not be a solution themselves. You may find things like methadone or buprenorphine helpful in staying off the needle and getting your life in order.

I think your environment is a big thing to consider though. What is your living situation like? Are you working a job? What types of things do you do for recreation, apart from getting high? Do you get along with you family? Are they supportive? Do you have friends that don't use?
 
Personally I think it's time to consider maintenance. I couldn't get sober through rehab no matter what and the cost was becoming insane. I haven't used heroin in almost 3 years thanks to methodone. It's helped me tremendously. You should at least look into it.

12 step rehabs have a 5 percent success rate for 1 year. Methadone has around 40 percent. Suboxone is around 30 percent. You owe it to yourself to try maintenance. I suggest methodone because your a long term users and it has far more structure then a sub program. Pm if you want more info on it
 
i agree with the guy above me, btw those stats he posted are 100% accurate, 12 steps abstinence treatment has the lowest rate of success

NA/AA only works for people who are very extroverted and who thrive in social situations, group settings, talking with a group/ in front of strangers energizes them, whereas the introvert tends to have the energy sucked out of them in the rooms... at least, thats how it was for me

so after trying and failing for a few YEARS with the 12 steps, i gave up and went on suboxone aka the drug that gave me my life back

that was 4 years ago and i don't shoot dope anymore, i don't smoke crack anymore, i hardly even crave the stuff anymore

do yourself a favor man, become a member of society again.... get on a maintenance program
 
I am seriously considering a maintenance program. The only thing is, as I'm sure you know, all the stories you hear about methadone and how people are hooked for life etc etc..
I was thinking about marijuana maintenance, but again, because my surroundings are all treatment,12-step, complete abstinence, type people.. All I get is negative feedback regarding that route.
I have been trying for years to get sober, and from my perception, these places are starting to do more harm to me than good. But try explaining that to my family... they would never go for it.. no matter what I say, even if its 100% accurate and true, my 'support' group won't listen or attempt to believe/understand it.

as far as "What is your living situation like? Are you working a job? What types of things do you do for recreation, apart from getting high? Do you get along with you family? Are they supportive? Do you have friends that don't use? " - Mafioso

I am currently living in a "sober living" (complete fraud), I work a pretty decent job (8-9) hours a day, I go to IOP 3 nights a week for like 2-3 hours (again complete fraud)... recreation?! maybe go out to eat something quick and head right back to the house... and my family is somewhat supportive, they are somewhat in my life, but again dont listen to a word I have to say. I have 'friends' that don't use... those same friends are the ones that I met here in treatment/sober living, that don't want to do shit but sit around the house.
 
I've heard stories about sober living, but have never been to one myself. I can only imagine...

When you say IOP is complete fraud, do you mean that the program is bullshit or that you aren't honest? Maybe try finding a new treatment center or counselor?

Ultimately you have to do what is best for you. Unfortunately, we don't always have supportive family or peers. Even with a maintenance program, you will eventually have to live without opioids. I would think it might be beneficial if you believe that it might help you get through a difficult period in your life, then when things settle down and life becomes a little more stable you could taper off. I have never done maintenance therapy though myself and don't really want to for similar reasons that you stated, but it's better than shooting dope and crank..

I think 12 steps serve their purpose and can be beneficial, but I've noticed a lot of people carry around this belief that "once an addict always an addict" and use it to justify a lot of behavior. Like "I'm an addict, can't help it". I really don't like that way of thinking because addiction isn't something we are, it is something we have Being around people with similar struggles and goals has its merit, but at the same time, I find it refreshing to be around people who have never done a drug in their life. It's important to put effort into recovery, but I think too much focus on "recovery" is a bad thing. Sometimes it's better to forget about recovery and just think about life. Life is more than just working the 12 steps, going to groups, going to counseling, and staying sober. If those things aren't helping you to refocus your mind on life in general, then I would question the benefit. It's important to remember from where we came, but we need to focus on where we are going.

Just a guess, but it sort of sounds like you need something to be passionate about. Something you can really focus your energy on, something you can progress and build in, something that really captures your attention. Like a career or a serious hobby?
 
Also, if you aren't experienced with cannabis I wouldn't really suggest it as a replacement for opioids. I hear people who say it works for them, but cannabis can be fairly unpredictable. It seems like a lot of the hype is spread by proponents of medical and recreational weed. I smoked every day for almost a decade and I didn't find it a suitable replacement for my opioid cravings. I felt like they are completely different beasts, like trying to satisfy a hunger with water or quench thirst with food.
 
Hey OP, you must be feeling pretty exhausted and pretty beaten down by all this. I do not have anything to add to what has already been suggested (whether you decide maintenance is the way to go or another attempt to quit altogether). But I did just want to give you support for trying. I've tried to change things about myself and sometimes it can take such superhuman effort for such a seeming eternity and then something finally clicks and a new pattern emerges. Don't lose hope.<3
 
Exhausted and beaten down is a pretty damn accurate..

I've smoked pot for about 10 years aswell, never in a medicinal or replacement manner, but it did seem to help with the anxiety and depression.

"Just a guess, but it sort of sounds like you need something to be passionate about. Something you can really focus your energy on, something you can progress and build in, something that really captures your attention. Like a career or a serious hobby?" -Mafioso .. thats very true and I hear that a lot, and excuse me for being somewhat closed minded but it just sounds so cliche.. maybe because I can't figure out exactly what it is I need to be passionate about.
 
It's just that having something to invest your time and energy into that makes you feel good (ie, something you're passionate about) is often what people are covering up with drugs. Or rather, the lack of it is what people are covering up. For example, I'm a musician. I barely make any money doing it, but I fucking love it so much, I wake up every morning feeling excited about my day because of it. When I am deep into creating music with people, especially playing live, it's a better feeling than any drug has ever given me. I might be having a bad day, but I know that within 48 hours I'll have band practice, or if things are really feeling bad, I can sit down at the piano and play and things will feel better. When I quit opiates for good, I rediscovered music and I attribute it largely to why I am still free of opiates to this day. I'm almost never bored because I always have this thing I absolutely love and am excited about to do when I would otherwise be bored.
 
Yeah it is a bit clichéd, but I think Xorkoth explained it pretty well.

I'm a musician as well and feel that it brings me a lot of hope and enjoyment. It also serves as a reason to stay sober and to push myself, it's not the only reason or even the biggest reason, but I know that I am a more capable musician when I am sober than when I'm fucked up.

I don't think you can "make" yourself passionate about things.. passion seems to find you rather than you finding your passion. Follow and pursue your interests and don't be afraid to try new things. You might try something new and find out that you love it and can't stop thinking about it, or you might decide you never want to do it again. It doesn't have to be a way of making money, but it can be. Most of us spend a large amount of time working a job so all the better if you can find a job you enjoy and want to excel at rather than just counting the hours as they pass.

Really, it's just about finding ways to enjoy life again. Finding things that break up the monotony and bring you joy. Beyond just making it through life, actually enjoying life and your time here.
 
I might be able to help a bit. I worked at a non-12 step program in upstate N.Y. as the lead continuing education instructor.

Our philosophy is that it's not a disease at all, merely a choice. Obviously you get insanely physically and mentally addicted, but ultimately it's a personal choice every time you do it.

I quit heroin long ago with their help, and I haven't had any cravings in years and years. I was horribly addicted for 10 years.

If you decide to go to the program i mention below, get detoxed. That's step number one. If you must, there is typically a place that will do it at no cost to you in every city.

It is about filling your time with positive activities, people, and eventuality positive thoughts and ultimately you'll be happy. (Except during difficult times and such, just like everyone else)

There's obviously a lot more to it....

One thing I did that helped IMMENSELY was subutex. I attribute my success to a combination of The Saint Jude Retreat House and subutex.

They won't let you use subutex there, so you can't do both simultaneously. If you want to and someone will pay for it I'd recommend going to the world's best non-12 step program(statistically speaking), I'd highly recommend it.

Their website: soberforever.net

At least read their website, it's brimming with information that will help you.

If that's not an option try the subutex. I haven't had the time to read all replies, sorry if that's already been answered.

I'm no longer affiliated in any way, but it was the best experience I've ever had regarding addiction issues. I too had been through multiple rehabs and sober living houses.

Hang in there. Get on subs if you can't go to St. Judes, it's scores better than doing heroin. You are literally the only one who can do this for yourself.

It's not religious at all by the way, the program... the name is deceiving.
 
I've been to something similar, also in upstate new york. It was a therapeutic community, and it was so hardcore! non 12-step, but their philosophy is to break you down, so they can build you up better and stronger. I'm just tired of going to programs, and doing intakes, and going through the whole intro part of being new in a program..
anyway.....

sorry for seeming like a know it all, but after going through so much treatment, its hard to hear something new and fresh.
 
^St. Judes is nothing like that. It builds you up and is very positive. They are diametrically opposed to beating people down and breaking them.

Trust me, this is the ONLY program of its kind on the planet.

Check out this site, written by one of the former instructors there:

http://www.thecleanslate.org

Here he is doing a Tedx Talk on the subject:
https://youtu.be/hBMUPgwLaO0

I'm serious man, I spent 4 years there working after I had completed the program. It is AWESOME. Great food, positive atmosphere, fun, activities, etc etc. Seriously check out the site at least.

http://www.soberforever.net

If you can't go, get on subs immediately. Make the call today and get set up. Subs are awesome as long as you really wanna quit.

I was a gutter dwelling junkie for over a decade. I was using, dealing, stealing, lying, and being a totally insane person.

I tried everything.

St Judes and subs were the most successful of my sobriety attempts.

I use other things occasionally nowadays, but not opiates. I'll never go down that road again.
 
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Marijuana will never compare to opiates when it comes to that tingly good feeling. Comparing them in that light is useless. But 2 weeks into an intense opiate kick, getting couch lock stoned, popping some immodiums, and watching netflix is soooooo good. It kept me clean, along with a drastic geographical relocation.
 
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Edibles worked pretty good for me heavy indices that helped me feel dizzy and warm. I need to place an order. I think one day they can get a Marijuana Maintenance Program. Strains grown to mock the symptoms of a good high.
 
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