Suboxone Help!!!! Please help!!!!!

[kris10cat]

Ill make this story as brief as possible. I need SERIOUS help here.

I was a pain pill addict from 2013 to 2014. Generally would do around 100-200mg per day of Oxy or 60mg of Dilaudid per day. I got clean for a few months, then went back to using pills again.

Speed up to this summer (2017), and I began using Heroin. About 2-3G per day for about 1 month plus pain pills here and there whenever I could find them. Well shit went sour at home and with my family when they discovered I was using drugs and I decided to go to outpatient rehab.

They started me on Subutex (NOT Suboxone), 4mg then over the course of 2 months, they had me on 14mg per day. I was doing really well with the 14mg per day. Until... I fucked up yet again and started taking pain pills and using Heroin. I stopped taking the Subutex and was back to using 2-3G per day of Heroin and any pain pills I came across. This went on for 1 month til shit hit the fan again and I decided going back down this path was not a good idea whatsoever.

Problem being, the outpatient rehab kicked me out because I wasnt attending groups, missed my dr. appointments, etc. I found another outpatient rehab to go to but there was a couple week wait to get in. So, I found some Suboxone on the street and decided to start back with the bupe. Well, after 22 hours of not using Heroin or pain pills, I was near death, or at least felt like I was. I had the absolute worst withdrawal ever. So I took 8mg of Suboxone, still felt like shit hours later, so took another 8, still felt like shit. I never, ever felt ANY relief whatsoever. This went on for 3 days. I was so fucking miserable, that of course, I went back to Heroin and pills the past few days.

Well today is it. I absolutely CANNOT use any illicit substances after today. I am going to the outpatient rehab Monday and if I piss dirty, they wont see me. So here are my questions....

1- Is there any chance at all that I will pass a drug test on Monday (today is Friday). Im guessing the answer is NO, and if thats the case, I will call and reschedule for Wednesday. Yesterday and today I used 2G of Heroin and today I did 12mg of Dilaudud, fyi.

2- The biggest question- WHY IS THE BUPE NOT HELPING ME AT ALL??? Am I taking ut too soon? I waited 22 hours after my last heroin use the last time I took the 8mg of bupe. Or am I taking too much???? At this point, I have no idea how much bupe I should be taking. But I CANNOT go thru withdrawals like I did this past time. I CANT DO IT! I am trying so hard to get back on track, but as we all know, when your at rhe bottom of the bottom of withdrawing, you will do ANYTHING to not be that miserable.

PLEASE, PLEASE, can someone give me some advice here??? How much bupe should I start at and why in gods name has it been doing NOTHING to help the withdrawal???

 

[SiCc]

We cannot discuss drug testing on these forums.

As far as the bupe goes when I was doing heroin intravenously and converted to suboxone, I didn't feel 100% well either until about the 5th day of taking the suboxone. Are you waiting until your in full blown withdrawals before using the suboxone? I have put myself in precipitated WDs from thinking I was sick enough to use the sub, but I just felt like shit because I didn't have heroin. I think you should wait until your 100% positive your system is free of heroin and then go to outpatient.

 

[SiCc]

Once I got past the 5th day after switching to suboxone, 8 mgs would make me well even when I was prescribed 24 mgs. Everyone is different, you will have to find what dose suits your needs. Ive taken suboxone after waiting 24 hours from my last heroin dose and still didn't feel too well. Just stick with it and you will eventually get the results you seek.

 

[kris10cat]

Thats what Im wondering too, is if I am taking it too soon. And maybe taking too much also. Im so scared right now. I know the withdrawals will be starting tonight.

 

[Keif' Richards]

OP, while I'm really sorry to here that you're having a hard time, there are some things that you really need to understand. The best we can give any user, is a rough approximation of how things typically progress. We will never be able to answer questions as esoteric as "why do I not feel this certain way?". Why are you taking the Buprenorphine prior to the onset of withdrawal symptoms? That's definitely not how you're supposed to be taking it.

 

[kris10cat]

I honestly think it's psychological as to why I may be taking it too early. I get myself EXTREMELY worried about withdrawals, to the point I start having panic attacks just thinking about it. Then I think I convince myself that I am far enough into withdrawals to take the Suboxone. But I really am thinking that I am perhaps just taking it too soon and possibly putting myself into precipitated withdrawal, obviously only adding to the problem. I will say though, I have waited a minimum of 22 hours after opiate use to take the bupe, but I also understand that its not necessarily about the timeframe as much as it is the physical symptoms as far as when I should start the bupe. I am just incredibly anxious about going through withdrawal. Like I said, I think a lot of it is psychological. Im just not sure how to calm myself down. I know getting myself so worked up about it isnt helping matters.

 

[Suboxombie]

Do you have any access to gabapentin, clonadine, or anything that could help you manage withdrawals for the first day or 2 that you are off heroin? Some medications may lessen the symptoms while also possibly reducing the anxiety because you know you ‘took something’. Like the way when you’re dopesick but once you pick up a bag you already start to feel better.

 

[Prescottdave]

It is completely normal to feel sick for the first 3-7 days on Bupe. In my experience this just means your tolerance has risen past the ceiling effect of the drug. If you wait it out for a few days you may find that 6-8 mg will start to hold you.

This reaction differs from actual precipitated WD. Unfortanetly the time frame is extremely important and should be based somewhat upon the halflife of the previous narcotic being used. You can be in really bad WD and still go into PWD

 

[Melhell]

I haven't figured out quite how to navigate this site very well yet. But if you find my thread, it would be helpful. I basically just used. Gabepentin, Tizanidine and Xanax to get through the worst of the withdrawals. I literally slept through them with that combo and then started the bupe. Unfortunately, I got a refill at my next Dr. appointment and am now in the same boat. Been on Bupe for 2 days (slept. Through the withdrawal) and have a dr. Appointment tomorrow. Hope I have the courage to ask for Bupe instead of a refill? Will a PMD give me Bupe or will he refer me to somebody else. Anybody know?

 

[Alldonewithit]

Hi melhell, why would you start the sub if you were able to sleep through your most acute withdrawals? I'd of kept going sleeping it through.

 

[sm0kestack]

I generally noticed the sweet-spot for inducting bupe after an extended time of heroin use is 36-48hours after last dosage.

It is true that sometimes it can take a few days to stabilize on bupe, especially when you have been doing large doses of heroin like 2-3grams every day. Your tolerance may be just way jacked up and your opiate receptors are so used to being constantly filled with a large amount of a full agonist like heroin all the time, so bupe may just not be effective enough at that time to keep those receptors fully satisfied. As a matter of fact, I am surprised you didn't mention suffering any precipitated withdrawal occuring even after inducting bupe at 22 hours after using that much heroin ... ?

I had a .1-.5g/day habit of using some heroin before that was some high-medium strength with a decently long half-life, and tried inducting 2mg bupe IV after 22 hours last dosage. WORST PWD I HAVE EVER BEEN THRU. I will never forget it, I actually think I suffer some slight PTSD issues from that big mistake.

So at a habit of 2-3g/day of some decent quality shit I assume, you prolly won't even be really starting the REAL onset of withdrawal for a couple days cuz of the large built-up of dope in your system.

My advice to get the maximum effectiveness of bupe, would be to maybe taper down the dope usage and try bringing your habit/tolerance down , then take a day of nothing but comfort meds, then at about 36-48hours, start slowly inducting the buprenorphine 2mg at a time every hour or so til you feel comfortable.

If you must stop abruptly and tapering down is not possible, just take the comfort meds ONLY, but add an extra day or two, then start inducting buprenorphine.

Also, REMEMBER, that buprenorphine is not going to make you feel as good as your full agonist drug of choice with a tolerance of that magnitude. It will just do the job of killing WD symptoms, and getting you to a state of normality.

 

[Melhell]

Alldonewithit, sorry for the super delayed response - my assistant quit on me 3 weeks before Christmas and I have been crazy busy and haven't had time to get on here. The answer to your question about sleeping through the withdrawals is because I have kids and other responsibilities that I can't just check out for 3+ days for. So, I closed my office for the stretch between Christmas and New Years so I could start my detox and (hopefully) be mostly through it before work starts back up. I got back on this site because I have found something that works SO MUCH better than the Bupe does. And it doesn't make me feel shitty at all. I am on day 3 with no opiates (supposed to be the worst day) and I actually feel pretty decent. KRATOM is the answer to how to get off opiates/opioids, IMHO. If you are still having problems, please check out Kratom. I have subs in my safe that I was going to take if all the hype I read about Kratom turned out to be crap. I'll be tossing those in the garbage. Kratom is addictive in its own right, so you have to be careful and taper as soon as possible but it's nothing like coming off those Bupes (from what I've read on here, it's as bad or worse than WD from the damn medicine/drug you were trying to get off of in the first place!) I am also taking Calm Support and DL-Phenylanine to help my brain get back to normal - aka. feel all the feelings again. I'll check in on here more often incase you have any more questions about my experience or research. I'm so happy to have found this, I'd be delighted to share!

***This isn't to say that Bupe isn't a wonder drug for some people - I know it is. It's just that is has some downsides that for some people, outweigh its benefits if there is another option.

 

[Melhell]

Hi melhell, why would you start the sub if you were able to sleep through your most acute withdrawals? I'd of kept going sleeping it through.

I just meant that I slept through the last of the 24ish hour period I had to wait to start the bupe. Once the withdrawal symptoms started - actually a little before - I dosed with those meds to knock me out...when I woke up, it was time to take the bupe. But now, I'm on day 4 with Kratom and I am really excited about it. This stuff works!!! Is there already another thread on here about Kratom? I would think there would be but I can't find it. Anybody?

 

[OnPoint187]

I'm currently prescribed SUBOXONE, but it is not for all. If SUBUTEX was working for you but SUBOXONE is providing no relief, it is likely because you are allergic to naloxone, the ingredient used in SUBOXONE to fill the opiate receptors of the brain, rumored to cause the patient immediate withdrawal if an opiate is used after taking SUBOXONE. SUBUTEX, however, is bupenorphine in it's pure form, no naloxone or opiate blocker added. I would see your primary care doctor and voice your concerns so that the proper testing can be conducted to either confirm or dismiss this suspicion. If you do indeed have an allergy, your doctor will provide you with proof and you will be given SUBUTEX and that only. I hope this was of some help to you. Stay well, and best wishes to you on your journey.

 

[Melhell]

Kris10cat, how's it going? Did the subs work? Did you try Kratom? I am on day 20 and still believe that I owe that to kratom. I took it for a little too long though and think I prolonged my agony a little. I'd really like to hear how you're doing...

 

[sm0kestack]

naloxone, the ingredient used in SUBOXONE to fill the opiate receptors of the brain, rumored to cause the patient immediate withdrawal if an opiate is used after taking SUBOXONE. SUBUTEX, however, is bupenorphine in it's pure form, no naloxone or opiate blocker added

*Small bump of this thread*, but I couldnt resist it.

Almost all of this segment of this comment is incorrect information.

1.) BUPRENORPHINE is the active ingredient in SUBOXONE that has a strong affinity to those receptors.

2.) NALOXONE is just a deterrent for keeping people from trying to INJECT it.

3.) NALOXONE may have only brief action for a matter of minutes before the BUPE settles in and overrides it anyway. If NOT injected, then NALOXONE'S bioavailability is nil anyhow and BUPE settles in before it makes it to any receptors.

4.) The thing about "immediate withdrawal" is backwards. It's the other way around. It is like this:

That "Immediate Withdrawal" you're talkin about is actually referred to as "Precipitated Withdrawal". It is where an opiate addict who is also physically dependent on their opiate of choice, decides to try making a switch from a full opiate receptor agonist to an antaganostic drug like NALOXONE or even partial agonist like BOTH SUBUTEX AND SUBOXONE when taken TOO EARLY by a someone who is still dependent on a FULL AGONIST OPIATE that has not cleared his opiate receptors all the way yet. Withdrawal WILL THEN be PRECIPITATED.

Basicly in P/W's there is a sudden outbreak of war all around your nervous system. You are thrown into a rapid kind of detox that will vary depending on the severity of it. How much too early did you wait before choosing to take BUPRENORPHINE, and how much BUPRENORPHINE did you take? How heavy was your full agonist opiate habit before this? Did you attempt a taper? This ALL and MORE can all factor in on the severity of PWD symptoms.

5.) About the part where it says SUBUTEX is BUPRENORPHINE in pure form, which is true, but the thing about there being "no blocker" in SUBUTEX since there is no "NALOXONE" in it. This is a common mix up. The fact is that BUPRENORPHINE is the actual "blocker". BUPRENORPHINE, although a partial opiate agonist, is still a powerful drug in itself. Having amongst the highest binding affinities to the mu opiate receptor known to man. Some 28x times stronger than morphine? Not really any other opiates can break through those receptors when they are saturated w/ BUPRENORPHINE MOLECULES besides some powerful fentanyl based analogs.

Couldnt help setting it right. Hope this helps somebody to not be misinformed and wind up using as much full agonist opiates as much as they want, then thinking it's fine to take BUPRENORPHINE at any time is in for a RUDE AWAKENING!