Misc GBL vs. (GHB) - Worth Converting?

[Ne0]

So does GHB have better effects than GBL? Is it worth converting GBL to GHB?

 

[clubcard]

In my HR work, Lifeline asked me to help. A lady had come to ask for help. She was dependent on photocopier cleaner. It took me a few hours to figure out it was GBL. The stomach acid will produce GHB but it seems very hard on the body. In the end I had to design a replacement strategy using diazepam. Happily she was able to swap with no problem and got down from 50ml to 10mg diazepam TID and reduced and got clean after 6 months. So remember, if *I* am the guy having to design the therapy then understand that it isn't well understood, is harmful and is difficult to stop using. Yes, caustic soda will yield GHB but it is making a cross for your back.

It works out that 1g of anhydrous GHB = 10mg of diazepam (once steady plasma state is reached). That means 3-5 uncomfortable days swapping but then a GP or drugs agency can help.

So please, occasional use is nasty (stomach issues) but chronic use is very bad. It is up to you what you decide to do but at any point in the future then ask.

DVW

 

[Ne0]

In my HR work, Lifeline asked me to help. A lady had come to ask for help. She was dependent on photocopier cleaner. It took me a few hours to figure out it was GBL. The stomach acid will produce GHB but it seems very hard on the body. In the end I had to design a replacement strategy using diazepam. Happily she was able to swap with no problem and got down from 50ml to 10mg diazepam TID and reduced and got clean after 6 months. So remember, if *I* am the guy having to design the therapy then understand that it isn't well understood, is harmful and is difficult to stop using. Yes, caustic soda will yield GHB but it is making a cross for your back.

It works out that 1g of anhydrous GHB = 10mg of diazepam (once steady plasma state is reached). That means 3-5 uncomfortable days swapping but then a GP or drugs agency can help.

So please, occasional use is nasty (stomach issues) but chronic use is very bad. It is up to you what you decide to do but at any point in the future then ask.

DVW

I'm using GBL to quit pregabalin, not going to use it longer than 2 weeks daily, I dose 1,5ml and after that every 30min 0,5ml. I didn't ask if GBL is bad for the body, I know it is not good, I asked if GHB produce better effects than GBL. And benzos are useless compared to GBL, I get suicide state depression from quitting opium (or it might be pregabalin wd) so I need GBL, benzos never have gave me any positive mood like GBL or pregabablin.

 

[CFC]

GHB kicks in more slowly, reaches a lower peak, and has more sustained action, so yes it would be preferable to GBL.

As for using it to quit pregabalin, that seems fraught with complication. GBL/GHB is pretty physically addictive in itself, even over just two weeks. I'd advise you strongly to not contemplate using it in this way as you'll experience pretty harsh w/d.

 

[clubcard]

I'm using GBL to quit pregabalin, not going to use it longer than 2 weeks daily, I dose 1,5ml and after that every 30min 0,5ml. I didn't ask if GBL is bad for the body, I know it is not good, I asked if GHB produce better effects than GBL. And benzos are useless compared to GBL, I get suicide state depression from quitting opium (or it might be pregabalin wd) so I need GBL, benzos never have gave me any positive mood like GBL or pregabablin.

OK - well GBL is a prodrug. Stomach acid converts it to GHB. Like pregabalin it is a direct GABA ligand which has a lot of receptors hence the large (compared to most medicines) dose. I cannot say if you are using the right tactic but it seems one way to go. I would think directly reducing pregabalin would be the safer option but I don't know your situation. You see a problem, you are looking to solve that problem for which I can only have respect. Whatever else, keep a diary if you can. If your idea works then it really could be really valuable. On the other hand, maybe pregabalin is an alternative to diazepam? When I designed the Lifeline guidelines pregabalin wasn't published in the UK. In fact, we are only starting to respond to the GABA ligands.

Sleep is the most important issue. With sedatives, it is tonic clonic seizures that are the risk so if you can possibly obtain just a few benzos so if you get myoclonic jerks (a warning sign) then you can quell them. Beyond that it really is an unknown sea. I do know it is killing a lot of people in Wales. People are shipping in odd, technically legal ligands (from Russia, by the looks of it). I do remember someone finding baclofen substituted and works at a much lower dose. The -Cl increases cLogP and stops the major metabolic route,

I just don't have enough data but all I can say is that diazepam is now the standard HR solution in the UK. I think 1g TID equaled 10mg BID of diazepam. It is a very gray area so your input is very valuable.

Take care, ask all the questions you want and let me know if I can help.

-Sean

 

[Ne0]

OK - well GBL is a prodrug. Stomach acid converts it to GHB. Like pregabalin it is a direct GABA ligand which has a lot of receptors hence the large (compared to most medicines) dose. I cannot say if you are using the right tactic but it seems one way to go. I would think directly reducing pregabalin would be the safer option but I don't know your situation. You see a problem, you are looking to solve that problem for which I can only have respect. Whatever else, keep a diary if you can. If your idea works then it really could be really valuable. On the other hand, maybe pregabalin is an alternative to diazepam? When I designed the Lifeline guidelines pregabalin wasn't published in the UK. In fact, we are only starting to respond to the GABA ligands.

Sleep is the most important issue. With sedatives, it is tonic clonic seizures that are the risk so if you can possibly obtain just a few benzos so if you get myoclonic jerks (a warning sign) then you can quell them. Beyond that it really is an unknown sea. I do know it is killing a lot of people in Wales. People are shipping in odd, technically legal ligands (from Russia, by the looks of it). I do remember someone finding baclofen substituted and works at a much lower dose. The -Cl increases cLogP and stops the major metabolic route,

I just don't have enough data but all I can say is that diazepam is now the standard HR solution in the UK. I think 1g TID equaled 10mg BID of diazepam. It is a very gray area so your input is very valuable.

Take care, ask all the questions you want and let me know if I can help.

-Sean

Thanks for help. The reason I choose GBL to quit pregabalin is that it works in different mechanisms than pregabalin. Same reason why I used pregabalin to quit opium. This way they over mask the WD's from other drug but they won't prolong them (like it would do if you used same type of drug for wd's). I was planning to tapper from pregabalin, I already dropped dose from 1g to 300mg daily, pregabalin is interesting drug that you can go from high doses to low doses in one day without any serious side-effect, also the tolerance will drop dramatically in just two days, so it's possible to drop it very fast. But I couldn't get them any more so I had to get some GBL. I have used GBL for many different WD's and it works greatly on that matter, just need to be careful not to use over 14 days straight.

CFC: I've done GBL for 2 weeks 24/7 use before and it only gave me insomnia for 2 days. Over 2 weeks already gives mild wd's, GBL anyway's give very short wd's. Also I might be use benzos for 2-4 days for quitting GBL or I might get some phenibut if I notice any serious WD's.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I have extensive experience with gbl and ghb....not worth the hassle in my opinion but if u do convert use the K salt not Na...as the taste is much better

 

[Ne0]

Best ways to dose GBL?

So I've always dosed GBL like: first dose in day 1,5ml after that 0,5ml every 45-60min. Now it seems I need to dose almost every 20 min because of it's very short duration. Maybe 1,5ml every 1h would be better in that matter?

 

[CFC]

CFC: I've done GBL for 2 weeks 24/7 use before and it only gave me insomnia for 2 days. Over 2 weeks already gives mild wd's, GBL anyway's give very short wd's. Also I might be use benzos for 2-4 days for quitting GBL or I might get some phenibut if I notice any serious WD's.

Did you dose all day every day on that occasion? I've lost two friends to GBL abuse, and helped others with w/d, so I'm sadly acutely aware of its addictive potential and the harm it can cause. I would hate to see you end up in that situation. Please be very cautious and preferably don't go down this route.

 

[snakeforhire]

Stomach acid converts it to GHB.

wrong. you'd need a base to hydrolyse it into GHB, like caustic lye (the usual method of producing GHB, at least the one I used).
AFAIK, GBL gets converted to GHB in the liver by an enzyme called ethanol-deshydrogenase. Hence why GBL is veery dangerous (and IMO far more addictive, as well as producing less desireable effects), it turns your liver into a cirrhosed sponge... :/
Go for the hydrolysis into GHB if you have the lab equipment, chemicals and expertise (or know someone who does), you'll be doing yourself a huge service and will be glad u did !

 

[snakeforhire]

Also, NEVER take alcohol either with GBL or GHB : the ethanol-dehydrogenase enzyme prioritizes those two compounds in your liver, so the alcohol you ingest won't be "processed" until the full dose of GBL/GHB has disappeared, and then the enzyme will turn to alcohol, making your body feel the effects of alcohol full-on, at once, like a train that hits you square in the face !
I've experienced that phenomenon and take my word for it : it's not agreeable at all, as well as very dangerous -especially if you happen to be trying to drive home high on GHB -which is no real problem really- and then get hit full-on by the effects of alcohol -which is a problem while driving...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

GBL is a pro-drug to GHB, why not take the GBL?

 

[snakeforhire]

bcoz in my experience it's far more addictive, and the effects aren't that pleasant at all...
I've been on homemade GHB for more than a year (back in 2001. One 2.5L bottle of GBL lasted me this long, by the time I finished it GHB was outlawed here in France), and quit overnight. I felt no withdrawal whatsoever (except that i was bummed out that it was gone, kind of like when you run out of weed, but no physical side effects at all).

GBL on the other hand is quite another experience : it lacks the pleasant aspects of GHB (mainly the sexual stimulation and ease of sleep), has a horrible solvent taste (I needed 250ml of O.J. just to dilute a 5ml dose to an acceptable taste level), it knocked me right out into a deep slumber and I'd wake up hours later -literally drenched in stinky sweat- and craving to redose like mad. I'm quite happy I'm out of it and can't get any more (it's not illegal per se, since it's a needed solvent to some industries, but it has become a *watched* chemical, guaranteed to attract police attention) because I really don't want to relive that period of my life. I consider myself way better off without.
Works the same with BDL (butanediol, which is the precursor to GBL), basically.

Also, like I said, GBL fucks up the liver something fierce -just like alcohol, but waaay faster...
GHB on the other hand is "ready-to-use" by your body (interacts with the GABA system, which regulates sleep and mood patterns, for you biochemists out there)

 

[Ne0]

Did you dose all day every day on that occasion? I've lost two friends to GBL abuse, and helped others with w/d, so I'm sadly acutely aware of its addictive potential and the harm it can cause. I would hate to see you end up in that situation. Please be very cautious and preferably don't go down this route.

I quit after 5 days 24/7 use (dosed every 30-45min, this is like crack), I got migraine attacks and would puke all day, even after just taking 0,5ml, I couldnät take anymore and I burned my throat and mouth because I would puke 5min after dosing. Too bad was already at the end of pregabalin wd's, so this plan didn't go like I planned and I'm back on pregabalin.

 

[snakeforhire]

I quit after 5 days 24/7 use (dosed every 30-45min, this is like crack), I got migraine attacks and would puke all day, even after just taking 0,5ml, I couldnät take anymore and I burned my throat and mouth because I would puke 5min after dosing. Too bad was already at the end of pregabalin wd's, so this plan didn't go like I planned and I'm back on pregabalin.

Dude, consider yourself lucky, you got off light...
If you got any GBL left, PM me, I'll give you the recipe to make good GHB with it. At least it's the real thing, non-toxic if you use the right chemicals and way more pleasant.
I dunno if the mods would allow the recipe to be published here (dunno why not, as it considerably reduces the harm done by GBL, but I'm new here).

 

[Ne0]

Dude, consider yourself lucky, you got off light...
If you got any GBL left, PM me, I'll give you the recipe to make good GHB with it. At least it's the real thing, non-toxic if you use the right chemicals and way more pleasant.
I dunno if the mods would allow the recipe to be published here (dunno why not, as it considerably reduces the harm done by GBL, but I'm new here).

Thanks, but I don't have it any, I was planning to make some GHB, but was too fucked up all the time, lol.