What Does Sober Mean to You?

[JessFR]

It means not getting drunk or high.

I'm on methadone, I don't see that as not being sober. If I were catching a strong buzz off the methadone that would be different, then I wouldn't call that sobriety. But if you just feel normal from using it then that's still sober.

I'm generally interested in the spirit and the intent of rules and definitions more than the semantics and specifics. So to me, the question is only if in your perception you're getting drunk or high. If you are you're not sober, if you aren't you are.

My extensive opioid use as an addict has fucked my brain chemistry such that I don't produce sufficient opioids on my own and what I do produce doesn't work properly. As a result I need to supplement it for my brain to work properly. Doing that isn't the same thing as using.

Using is going and getting high, I know what getting high feels like. If that's not happening, it's not using. That I need opioids to function at a normal level is irrelivent to me.

That's how I see it. The spirit of the rules not the letter.

Another example, I was talking to my mom about what it means to lie the other day. I told her I thought something she was doing was dishonest. Not as a judgement in that she shouldn't do it, I agree with her doing it, I just don't agree that it's honest. She said she wasn't telling people something that was literally untrue.

I said that it doesn't matter. She is doing it knowing that what she tells them will lead to a false assumption, and so it's still dishonest even if it's not strictly speaking unfactual. She agreed. It wasn't really about if it was right or wrong for her to do it. Neither of us have a moral problem with it. It was just an acedemic question on if it was lying or not. And I said it was because its intentionally misleading.

Because I believe in the spirit and intent of the word more than the strict definition, same as with this.

Some people would say that if you're on methadone you're still using. And I would say that's bullshit. I use to get high. Cause I love opioids. If I'm not getting high it's not using. I know what being high is and with my tolerance and being on methadone and how I'm taking it, I'm not getting high and so it's no longer using.

The experience is what matters not the actual activity.

 

[tired of crap]

"For me, it means healthy moderation. Sobriety does not mean "drug free" but a mind set"

After reading the title I had come to reply just that. But then I saw you had posted it and thought Id read the OP.

Now let me expand on my take on healthy moderation and sobriety being a mindset. With a little back story for understand to set the stage.

For some time I had used alcohol and smoking weed as an escape. Eventually the weed led to anxiety (due to its inability to successfully act as an escape - who knew itd actually make me think ??? ), i chose to quit and alcohol took over the primary escapist role. For 10 years alcohol held this position. During this time my use of psychedelics, my previous doc, tapered off for the the same reason as weed - the message was always clear (stop drinking!) but i chose to ignore it and thus i figured i should hang up the phone.

Eventually my need to escape ceased to exist when the toxic relationship I was in finally ended. It was time to quit drinking but I struggled for 2 years with the concept of sobriety. I stopped drinking but that would fail when life presented even minor stresses - Id revert to what I knew; 10 years of escapism ingrained some deep patterns. I tried replacing drinking with weed... But ended up just drinking AND smoking. I tried tripping my way out of it but again the message was clear "dont drink" but without addressing the underlying escapist behaviour and changing my coping mechanisms this also failed.

Throughout these 2 years I slowly began integrating my knowledge of what healthy was to me into daily life. Meditation became my anchor, especially during stressful times. From there I reintroduced physical exercise and with this I again realized the importance of yoga and a healthy balanced diet.

I would relapse periodically and all these healthful activities would fall to shit. But a month, maybe a few in id catch myself and begin again. Through my trials and failures i began to realize that complete abstinence from all substances is not what keeps me healthiest and slowly I began reintroducing psychedelics into my life.

Be it classical, disassociatives or high dose mj edibles - psychedelics provide me with insight into some of my more difficult to understand actions/thoughts which meditation has yet to allow me to open up to. But these trips are not always "fun" and between that and my thought that to fully utilize them to their utmost potential (due to mental and physical tolerances) I use them sparingly, usually with atleast 3 weeks between, less if I plan strategically and follow some sort of drug rotation schedule ha, to avoid tolerances. The exception to this being edibles which i use about once a week. I also smoke pot about 0-3 times a week now too, without anxiety and usually with the purpose of gaining some insight.

So to me this is sobriety. I do not use these, or other, drugs to escape. For me drug use is not the issue, escapism is.

 

[cj]

To me it means not using drugs to escape my problems. I'm on mmt and I consider that sober because it allows me to function like a normal person. It's also kept me off heroin for almost 3 years. I occasionally use other drugs but when I do it's for fun not to hide from my problems. I really feel that sobriety is a state of mind that has nothing to do with the chemicals you do or don't ingest.

Good topic for a post OP

 

[ElleAZ]

To me, it means independence. I will never be content being at the mercy of anything.

When I quit smoking, for example, I went cold turkey and loved not having to do a damn thing to scratch an itch that wants to enslave me.

 

[Ds]

What sober means to me? It means i'm not getting high and drunk, and starting to get my life together.
That includes reaching out to other people that want to get sober them selves.

Sober is a new way of living, as long as I don't take that first drink or drug,i won't have to worry about the cravings.

 

[Stargazer]

Hey morninggloryseed! I've seen you in Trip Reports - great to see you in SL.

Sober, to me is not shooting heroin, taking care of myself and my home and being present in my life. Not isolating and interacting with others.

It doesn't mean total abstinence- except from opiates. I can't responsibly use opiates. God knows I keep trying.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

My extensive opioid use as an addict has fucked my brain chemistry such that I don't produce sufficient opioids on my own and what I do produce doesn't work properly. As a result I need to supplement it for my brain to work properly. Doing that isn't the same thing as using..

Yes, yes it has. Temporarily. If you battled through acute withdrawal and then PAWs for long enough, you would come out the other side. You would regain homeostasis. It sounds like you function on methadone, and more power to you, but if you tell yourself that you are going to have to take opioids for the rest of your life based on the fundamental lie that you can never produce your own endorphins ever again you're just deluding yourself.

 

[JessFR]

Yes, yes it has. Temporarily. If you battled through acute withdrawal and then PAWs for long enough, you would come out the other side. You would regain homeostasis. It sounds like you function on methadone, and more power to you, but if you tell yourself that you are going to have to take opioids for the rest of your life based on the fundamental lie that you can never produce your own endorphins ever again you're just deluding yourself.

I know I probably don't have to take it forever, I intend to get off it in a couple years. Though I have absolutely no intention of doing it by just going cold turkey. Fuck that, if I were gonna eventually do that I'd have just done it when I was using heroin rather than switch to methadone in the first place.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I know I probably don't have to take it forever, I intend to get off it in a couple years. Though I have absolutely no intention of doing it by just going cold turkey. Fuck that, if I were gonna eventually do that I'd have just done it when I was using heroin rather than switch to methadone in the first place.

I didn't mean go cold turkey. I meant taper off it, use comfort meds if you have to, just don't project permanent misery onto your future sobriety in the mistaken belief you will be forever incapable of producing your own endorphins.

 

[simco]

To me the most important thing in my recovery is being in a situation where I don't have to lie about my drug use. As soon as I get secretive and feel alone because of drugs I know I'm in trouble.

Other than that, I think cj's definition is mine as well: sober if I'm not using drugs to run away from or mask my problems.

 

[JessFR]

I didn't mean go cold turkey. I meant taper off it, use comfort meds if you have to, just don't project permanent misery onto your future sobriety in the mistaken belief you will be forever incapable of producing your own endorphins.

Yeah except I don't think that. Never did. Just cause I didn't mention that it's reversible doesn't mean I think it's permanent. I didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant to the thread. I appreciate what you're saying but, we already agreed from the start.

 

[Mafioso]

I think it depends on how the word is used... either not currently intoxicated, or not currently abusing drugs.

 

[Mmp85]

For me it's not drinking as that was my problem.
I take several medications for bipolar and ADD including benzos and amphetamines which I don't consider drug use because I take them at their prescribed therapeutic doses and not recreationally.

 

[tired of crap]

<snip at user's request>

Im curious how does food fit into your idea of "drugs"?

A quick google search yields:
Drug - a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body

...
A friend and i had this conversation. He argued that because people arent conscious of or using it deliberately for its effects food is not a drug. I felt that his point on consciousness was irrelevant because most people arent conscious of countless actions. Furthermore i argued that countless people utilize food for its effect - see bodybuilders, people on a diet etc.

I know sometimes, esp in early recovery (earlier than now anyways) i would feel self destructive but want to refrain from alcohol so id buy ju k food.

Or theres the case of comfort foods

Sort of off topic but what do you folks think - can food be viewed as a "drug"?

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Im curious how does food fit into your idea of "drugs"?

A quick google search yields:
Drug - a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body

...
A friend and i had this conversation. He argued that because people arent conscious of or using it deliberately for its effects food is not a drug. I felt that his point on consciousness was irrelevant because most people arent conscious of countless actions. Furthermore i argued that countless people utilize food for its effect - see bodybuilders, people on a diet etc.

I know sometimes, esp in early recovery (earlier than now anyways) i would feel self destructive but want to refrain from alcohol so id buy ju k food.

Or theres the case of comfort foods

Sort of off topic but what do you folks think - can food be viewed as a "drug"?

Not sure where you got your definition of drug but most definitions specifically exclude food. Expanding it to include food would take much of the meaning away from the word and then it could be continually expanded to a ridiculous extent. Food can be an addiction but I wouldn't call food a drug. I've definitely been a comfort & even binge-eater in the past, but no amount or type of food has ever had as much of an impact on my psychological/mental state as even the mildest drugs I've taken. YMMV

 

[Mafioso]

Not sure where you got your definition of drug but most definitions specifically exclude food. Expanding it to include food would take much of the meaning away from the word and then it could be continually expanded to a ridiculous extent. Food can be an addiction but I wouldn't call food a drug. I've definitely been a comfort & even binge-eater in the past, but no amount or type of food has ever had as much of an impact on my psychological/mental state as even the mildest drugs I've taken. YMMV

I would agree with this.

I've seen debates about this before on this site and they tend to go on forever, but I don't think it is correct to call food a drug. Simply put, a drug is a psychoactive substance as far as I understand it. There are a lot of activities that can effect levels of neurotransmission, things like exercise, sex, eating, fear and stress. Emotional eating is a real occurrence, but it differs from drug use.

 

[tired of crap]

Not sure where you got your definition of drug ....no amount or type of food has ever had as much of an impact on my psychological/mental state as even the mildest drugs I've taken. YMMV

Literally "drug definition" into google on my phone.

Ymmv of course is relevant here. As i clean up my diet more and more I really notice when i eat something processed or high in refined sugar or fat.

In regards to foods effecting physiological states, what about when overeating causes obesity, which has been linked to diabetes and other diseases. Or undereating can lead to anorexia and the host of physiological issues it presents

Simply put, a drug is a psychoactive substance as far as I understand it. There are a lot of activities that can effect levels of neurotransmission, things like exercise, sex, eating, fear and stress. Emotional eating is a real occurrence, but it differs from drug use.

What about when eating causes emotional and behavioural changes. Many would argue this is most notable in children.
...
But perhaps Im getting too far ahead. What if we were to just look at particular ingredients in foods? What about sugar or cacao?

 

[Mafioso]

Literally "drug definition" into google on my phone.

Ymmv of course is relevant here. As i clean up my diet more and more I really notice when i eat something processed or high in refined sugar or fat.

In regards to foods effecting physiological states, what about when overeating causes obesity, which has been linked to diabetes and other diseases. Or undereating can lead to anorexia and the host of physiological issues it presents



What about when eating causes emotional and behavioural changes. Many would argue this is most notable in children.
...
But perhaps Im getting too far ahead. What if we were to just look at particular ingredients in foods? What about sugar or cacao?

I understand what you are getting at, but I think it is important to differentiate drug use from an eating disorder or other behavioral disorders. Eating food, like sugar, may cause stimulation of neurotransmitters, but they don't cross the blood brain barrier and bind to receptors or impact neurotransmission by physical/chemical means. There is a difference in a pharmacological sense between food and psychoactive substance, although food can be used in similar ways as some drugs.

Many addictions are both physical and behavioral in nature. I think it is important to note the differences for sake of clarity and understanding. Something like self-harm can causes both emotional and behavioral change but it would be confusing to label it as a drug. Exercise does as well, people commonly describe the release of endorphins as a "runners high" but labeling exercise as a drug is very confusing and misleading. Trauma can cause all sorts of changes, but it would be a little strange to call it a drug. Just because something has similar effects, whether positive or negative, doesn't mean they produce the effect by the same or similar mechanism.

 

[tired of crap]

I dig your explanation mafioso. In truth I dont generally view food and drugs in the same category, for reasons you mentioned, but I feel that their effects and uses can be similar.

However, some foods such as cacao and coffee/tea contain compounds that most certainly cross the bbb and have dircet effects on neurotransmitters. And although other foods may not have a direct effect on receptors in the way a drug has, carbohydrates (broken down into glucose), proteins (into amino acids) and fats (into fatty acids) do cross the bbb and are used in the synthesis of neurotransmitters. Thus an inadequate or overabundant diet can cause chemical imbalances and is associated with a variety of disorders. IIRC that is.

 

[oldhippytony]

Yes, yes it has. Temporarily. If you battled through acute withdrawal and then PAWs for long enough, you would come out the other side. You would regain homeostasis. It sounds like you function on methadone, and more power to you, but if you tell yourself that you are going to have to take opioids for the rest of your life based on the fundamental lie that you can never produce your own endorphins ever again you're just deluding yourself.

Agree. I started using drugs, including alcohol, in 1969 and by late 1980s was shooting dope 3 x daily, went on methadone program, then back to shooting. In 1991 > rehab > outpatient > and after some time "regained homeostasis" (accurate term). I was clean, entirely. My thinking was sober. Stayed that way until a few years ago when I was no longer clean nor sober due to relapse. I've used on and off since. For the last year or so I've been using suboxone 1 mg or less daily. Since September .5 or less. I don't consider myself clean as I do need opiates to function normally, albeit a small dose. I do consider myself sober however. I will be clean when I'm entirely free of drugs, including alcohol. "Sober" is a state of mind, is subjective, driven primarily by the quality of my thoughts and actions. I speak only for myself and everything I know is subject to revision.