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Sleep advice, please help me

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ObieWan

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
154
I have some really serious sleep issues which of course causes problems elsewhere in life, well everywhere. I'm sure I fucked up my receptors with alcohol and benzo use which although I sort of enjoyed, the main purpose was sleep to begin with.

I still abuse alcohol, anywhere from 200 to 400 mL a night (or more). Sometimes I can taper to a beer for a few nights, but the poor sleep gets me right back to it, along with DT's in the day. I would like to be drug free, or at least infrequent, responsible use. I need some advice on getting through the alcohol dependence as well as the insomnia. I have 10mg Zolpidem which works, but still fucks with the GABA receptors and have only used it once- slept 8 hours. I do not want to continuously use this. I have alprazolam as well as clonazepam, but it is quite easy to trade one dependence for another. I often wake up at 3 or 4 am and have to take 0.5mg of alprazolam, or I get no sleep and my brain is mush the next day. (I'm not dependent on benzos). I will also sometimes take 60 to 90mLs of alcohol at 3 am, but this is beyond unhealthy and leaves me feeling like shit the next day too.

I don't like pot. I find melatonin and herbal teas are great for inducing sleep, but don't help you stay asleep. Same with trazadone, like 25 mg. I fall asleep fine but still wake at 3 or 4 am. This makes we want to jump from a bridge (this is figurative,) but it is way beyond frustrating. I want to start a new career and I can't if I'm living like this. This problem has interfered with the starting of a new carreer for almost a year. I honestly feel that anecdotal advise from others in similar situations can be more helpful than from a doctor.

Let me put in the disclaimer that I am not a big fan of 12 steps, or therapy, and my biggest issue is the physical aspect, not the mental (though this probably can't be discounted). Please help. I try to give the best advice to others that I can, but now I'm asking.
 
ObieWan, I know what you're talking about with the sleep issue. I remember having a brief moment of clarity at about 19 or 20 (not even old enough to drink legally in my state, but had been drinking daily for about 6 years by then) as I fell into my bed with the room spinning, thinking "I don't think it's normal to have to drink myself unconscious every night to be able to sleep at all." That was about 40 years ago, and I immediately forgot about it. But even then, I had to drink exactly the right amount--not enough and I wouldn't be able to sleep, and too much, and I'd pass out OK but wake up in a few hours with a screaming hangover and have to drink more to go back to sleep so I could function the next day. Eventually I went to full-time drugs, which made sleeping a lot easier, as long as I never ran out of dope, that is. Every time I'd get clean, though, sleep would be a non-starter.

So I feel your pain, even if I don't have much in the way of advice. I guess the only thing I can say that might be helpful--and I'm sure you already know this--is about a half-hour of solid exercise during the day. Not too early and not too late--my best time is late afternoon. I have severe COPD-emphysema and have to watch my oxygen saturation all the time. If I lift weights or do some other resistance training it improves my O2 sat for several hours, then it begins to drop back to baseline, which is the time I want to go to sleep. If I do cardio, like walking or biking, it doesn't do the same thing, and I can do that earlier or later and still be OK.

But I'm deciding whether to finish tapering off a ten-year Suboxone maintenance, and one of the reasons I stay on it is that it keeps my sleep schedule somewhat stabilized. Best of luck to you--I developed a wicked Xanax habit behind just trying to sleep, then switched to Ambien, which shot huge holes in my memory and got me busted for drugged driving as well. So all I take now is a restless legs prescription med and an OTC that has melatonin, valerian root, and L-tryptophan (may be misspelled but it's what's in turkey that makes you sleepy after Thanksgiving dinner)
 
Thanks for the response. All I abuse now is alcohol, but I've taken a few doses of zolpidem (I love it), and I can very easily see how this can be a solution (and a new problem) to my issues. There is no easy answer. I've heard of alcoholics stabilizing their sleeping habits from a couple of weeks to many years.

I've found exercise to be instrumental in recovery from many substances. Living in a city now not so much. I used to drive 5 min to the gym, now its like I walk 20 min and take a train and walk some more, so it's not as easy. I wish I never picked up anything to begin with.
 
I have found that reading a book in bed for half an hour or so can help a lot. It seems to have the effect of giving the brain a period of activity after which it seems to fall more easily into sleep mode.
 
I once depended on watching the same movie every night to put me to sleep. I think it was "Tin Man" on the SyFy Channel. Never got more than 20 minutes through. I use books the same way. And I try to behave like I have a great night planned. I set up the bedroom. I have nice scents. Sheets are soft. I avoid the bed all day and try to look forward to it. Then when I finally get into it, there's a positive expectation. So then when I am in bed, I have a chance. Lately, I have been putting in ear buds and listening to storm sounds for hours. I don't know if I drift off but it helps me get through tapering to have that time in peace physically and mentally.
 
Elle, my brother puts the movie Caddyshack in his VCR--yes, he still has a VCR, although he also has a DVD player and a Blu-Ray--as he goes to bed every night and swears by it. I've had to get pretty creative myself because I have real problems sleeping. For one thing, I can't sleep laying down flat because of my lungs--I have to sit up somewhat or my lungs fill up with junk and sometimes fluid. I've been trying lately to put in Tina Turner chanting Buddhist chants, because I can't go to sleep with a movie or TV or vocal music on. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. I feel like I have to really fight to get to sleep, and I hate it. But, I'm getting ready to for tonight. If only my head would at least slow down, better yet, just stop yammering at me. I can't or won't take most of the sleep meds--I always abuse benzoes and wind up going into a blackout from them. And when I hit a blackout from booze or drugs, anything, literally, can happen. I did Ambien for a while but it put huge holes in my memory , which freaked me out. I'm taking an OTC herbal, and a prescription for restless legs. Sometimes the combo actually works. I don't want to mess around with any of the major psych drugs like Neurontin just to sleep, so sometimes I'll go several days with almost no sleep at all. I hope tonight's not going to be one of those nights...
 
Dude... I feel you. Went through 23 days of almost no sleep when I came off morphine. Then months of broken bad sleep. Exercise helped me alot. Making sure my body was tired before trying to sleep. Benadryle helped some too... Lastly was acceptance... Not getting angry and just accepting I was not going to sleep. Best of luck man... R13
 
I threw out the ambien and I regret it now. I do have Xanax and Klonipin, but I use this as little as possible. Really only during the day if I get DT's and have to work, as well as the weekend to get a couple hours of sleep. I have quit detoxed from cigarettes, vicodin, heroine, and benzos, but the alcohol is a real bitch like none other.

The ambien was a wonder drug and if I tapered properly from the alcohol and used it responsibly it would have worked great. Unfortunately I would wake up in the middle of the night and dose again, and then be a mindless zombie all day. Exercise helps as it induces endorphines and gives you a feel good sense all around, and you sleep a little better. There are nights when I get 15 minutes sleep. As gross as I feel when drinking a little alcohol, this is actually much better for sleep, even though I'm about to jump out of my skin.
 
Loplover, I do have to say that I do feel better after quitting a 10 year Sub prescription. Was a nightmare to stop, but I do feel better. The constant refills and doctor visits and the expense was crazy stressful. Stopping this probably led to the benzos, and stopping the benzos led to alcohol. We addicts will often substitute one for another. But yeah Sub is nasty shit, unless you need it not kill yourself with questionable opiates.
 
Have you ever tried baclofen? It can be really helpful for alcohol cravings.

Sleep hygiene can really go a long way, I'd suggest you look into it.

Instead of cannabis, have you ever tried CBD? Cannabis doesn't work very well for me when it comes to insomnia, but CBD has been pretty amazing. Like everything I enjoy about cannabis without any of the uncomfortable side effects.

Something that is often overlooked is getting exercise. Getting enough exercise is probably the single most effective way to improve the quality of sleep. Just avoid doing it within a couple hours of bedtime.

Also, diet has a significant impact on sleep. Just to keep in mind. But the point is there are lots of things you can do, from meds and supplements to behavioral and lifestyle stuff.
 
Are you still struggling? I have had no luck with sleep meds. Trazadone made me loopy and drunk THE NEXT DAY. Didn't do a thing the night I took it. And that 3AM thing is so common that somewhere in our past as a species we must have started work at 4AM. It's so ingrained!

Last night I ended about 36 hours of sleeplessness with a fistful (5 or 6) of Magnesium/Potassium/Calcium pills. I don't know if it worked or if I just ran out of awakeness, but since being low on magnesium is pretty common, maybe I had an imbalance. Slept five hours and felt refreshed. Still stayed in bed and flickered in and out for a few hours. I felt very peaceful. Maybe you could give it a shot? You need rest and the peace it brings.
 
Those kind of supplements definitely do help some people. Worth a shot. Always good for the OP to do their own research too, as I believe there are different sorts of magnesium preparations out there. From what I hear the stuff is supposed to help some people manage stress.
 
I have kicked the alcohol habit for 1 month. I've drank about 3 beers in that period, but each time it later made me feel sick later so I stopped. My sleep has improved, but is not perfect. I rotate trazadone, ambien, xanax, and often I'll take nothing. I will post the story of what was the "wake up call"

Even chamomille and melatonin work great! Yes, exercise too! I want to get back to the point where I need nothing.
 
Except exercise right? That's a good one to keep around.

Congrats on the sobriety btw.
 
The reason for insomnia when abusing alcohol is due to the excess glutamate in the brain so your body can still function under the effects of alcohol. No surprise that your sleep has dramatically improved since you've been off the sauce. I also gave up caffeine at the psychiatrist's recommendation and now drink a lot of caffeine free herbal teas. I've been a lifelong insomniac though and still depend on sleep medications. I take 15mg of Remeron and 900mg of gabapentin and if I can afford to sleep in, I take an additional 75mg of doxepin. I have an Ativan script but use it only as a last resort. Then there's always one star programming on Netflix too.=D
 
Thanks for the suggestions all. I am still sober (alcohol), yayy! My sleep is improved, but will probably never be what it used to. I rotate chamomille and melatonin, alprazolam, small amounts of heroin, and Ambien. I'm dependant on nothing.

Sometimes I feel I need nothing and take nothing. If I went to sleep at the same time and woke at the same time every day I would eliminate 80% of my issues I'm sure. However I still can close my eyes on a bus and fall asleep in 5 seconds like I used to.

Trazodone works to initiate sleep and is widely used, however I find it gives a very gross feeling. It is certainly not euphoric or recreational. It also can leave me feeling groggy for the first hour or two in the morning, even from 25-50mg. As an antidepressant people take much higher doses of this stuff.

Aihfl- 1 star Netflix programming- LOL!
 
it seems like there are a lot of recommendations for just increased reliance on other drugs and quick fixes in order to cope with your problems. I've personally dealt with similar, and what saved me basically boiled down to a friend telling me to go run on the beach until I collapsed. That makes you hungry, so eat healthy things. Now your body is fatigued and needs to heal your sore muscles. This is done naturally by sleep.

It may not be as easy or convenient as it sounds, but it really is the natural way of doing things for humans. Exercise, eat, sleep - and doing each one leads to better moods (more balanced chemicals in your brain and body) and leads to a chain reaction of helping out the next one. It all starts with exercise, in my humble opinion. Now your body is hungry, so eat healthy. If your diet consists of coffee, soda, snacks and not enough water, plants, healthy protein/fats - then of course you are going to suffer in various forms. Other tips and tricks have been mentioned and can definitely help out along the way. When you body is sore, sleep is how it repairs itself, and everything becomes a natural process with each step building on the previous one.

Also recommended would be reading, sunlight (melatonin), being outdoors, mindfulness practice (yoga/meditation). I know it all sounds like hippy shit, but everything you need really is already inside of you in the vast majority of cases. It's your responsibility to make sure it happens, not be dependent on a heavy rotation of external adulterants
 
ObieWan said:
Thanks for the suggestions all. I am still sober (alcohol), yayy! My sleep is improved, but will probably never be what it used to. I rotate chamomille and melatonin, alprazolam, small amounts of heroin, and Ambien. I'm dependant on nothing.

Sometimes I feel I need nothing and take nothing. If I went to sleep at the same time and woke at the same time every day I would eliminate 80% of my issues I'm sure. However I still can close my eyes on a bus and fall asleep in 5 seconds like I used to.

Trazodone works to initiate sleep and is widely used, however I find it gives a very gross feeling. It is certainly not euphoric or recreational. It also can leave me feeling groggy for the first hour or two in the morning, even from 25-50mg. As an antidepressant people take much higher doses of this stuff.

Aihfl- 1 star Netflix programming- LOL!
Click to expand...

TrazDone makes me feel disgusting too. Remeron is the best non narcotic one I have found
 
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