• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

3,4 CTMP and racemic Amphetamine Sulphate for working

Phobos

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Hello everybody, my 1st post here but been reading this forum for ages, very thankful it exists as I like to think I learned a lot of things that helped me use drugs in a somewhat responsible way.

But that was when my drug use was limited to recreational/spiritual use of psychedelic drugs of the stimulant and dissociative class.

I have always steered clear of stims except caffeine and, for a single recent dieting cycle, Ephedrine. I have used MDMA which many consider a stimulant but not often. My current MDMA use is like monthly and limited to a single 170mg dose every time.
3-4 years ago I also often used aMT which I consider a powerful stimulant if used often as the serotoninergic effects are greatly diminished in comparison to the adrenergic and dopaminergic with repeated use.

But recently, I found myself very much out of focus at work, maybe it could be that I don't like my job so much, maybe the requests and methods from my employers are not fair, but whatever that might be, since I know I always had a mild tendency to ADD, I tried stims to work more efficiently.
I am currently using 5mg 3,4 CTMP everyday, plus a few (1-3) 60mg Amph sulphate capsules everyday. And about 300-400mg of caffeine as well. And also 200ug of Huperzine A (an Acelthylcholine esterase inhibitor).
I will take this much 4 or 5 days per week, and not use on my days off.
So far I have been able to sleep ok but during work, when I'm feeling the stims more, I often eat nothing or very little and even forget to drink water for a few hours sometimes.
I know that it is not a crazy amount, but I would like to hear opinions on how bad that might be health wise, and if this amounts are likely to lead to the personality problems commonly associated with stim abuse.

I have also been using daily for months a drug called MK 677 that will make me produce more Growth Hormone, and am currently cycling a SARM called MK 2866 (if you don't know what that is, think steroids but milder and less side effects) and a SERM called Enclomiphene that will hopefully keep my testicles producing regular amounts of Testosterone while I take the MK2866.

My stats are 35 yo, 1,70m/ 5'7", 75kg/165lbs very lean (around 10-12%BF).

Any suggestions, comments and opinions welcome as harsh as they might be, of course open to questions as well.
 
This is tough. Like all discussion regarding novel chemicals, the biggest issue is that we just don't have the necessary information because the substance in question has had very limited exposure to humans to begin with. If we're talking about something as pedestrian as D,L Amphetamine, we have decades of recorded use, side-effects, chronic and acute health problems, both physiological and neurological and so on. We don't know completely how neurotoxic this substance might be when used on a chronic basis.

As long as you understand that the use of novel substances can be dangerous, then we're open for discussion. It sounds like you're a pretty well-read guy regarding psychoactive substances, so first off, I'd like to know what your experiences have been like, in comparison, with more commonly used substances like Amphetamine, for instance. How harsh are the comedowns; how does each make you feel; what are the consequences of usage.

I would say, leave MDMA out of the conversation, just because, although it's a stimulant, it's going to be used in a totally different manner than a lot of what I call "functional stimulants:, or, drugs that you might use just to increase motivation and work output. It would be hard to draw comparisons between MDMA and 3,4 CTMP. So, I guess, could you tell us a little bit about your experience with it? What does your intuition say about how the drug is treating you?

I can tell you, that I just did some brief reading regarding 3,4 CTMP and the issue of potential cardiotoxicity seems to be popping up a lot.
 
My experience with 3,4 CTMP so far has been overall positive, I tried dosages between 3 and 7mg, and I noticed that at 7mg the duration is excessive at about 13-14 hours and my heartbeat at about 100 for the 6 hours long peak, but 5 mg provide a much more relaxed effect, a calm, focused drive to keep going and not slow down, and a good amount of physical energy as well, but no so much that I think I risk hurting myself when doing physical efforts.
At 7mg I feel I could push myself too much and not realize it fast enough.
At 5mg appetite suppression is not too much, but it is present.
I didn't get compulsion to redose yet, but I can see how higher dosages might make that happen especially if someone where to be prone to abuse stims.
There has been no euphoria but there definitely is a mood lift.
Once the effect is gone sleep is fine, and I do not crash right after or even after a few days of use.
But I need a couple of days off to feel ok without it.
Amphetamines ( racemic) make me crash more, give me more compulsion to redose, make me feel a bit more adrenalinic/ physically hyperactive, suppress my appetite more, redosing multiple times is needed, it is also hard to keep the effect stable, I need more time off to recuperate, the down is also stronger/deeper.
Right now I am using both together but I would like to soon find a way reduce the speed doses.
Please keep in mind that I'm on PEDs that will keep my cortisol down and most likely help me sleep better and eat more as well as regenerate faster.
I also supplement with fish oils, multiple antioxidants, all vitamins in very high doses, potassium and magnesium and also eat very clean.
So my experience might differ significantly from others.

Edit: forgot to mention, it is my opinion that I am less responsive to the adrenergic effects of all the drugs I have used than most.
I mean nBOMEs give me an overall relaxed experience, I will easily sleep on MDMA right after the nystagmus stops.
Ofcourse for some reason weed gives me strong rushes of adrenaline and anxiety and panic at the lowest, most ridiculous doses, I cannot touch that stuff anymore.
 
Last edited:
Well, it would sound like you are not having any terrible reactions to the chemical in question, but there is still the issue of its novelty in relation to the potential for cardiotoxic complications. I'm going to be doing some reading as I go, as should you and maybe we can meet in the middle with useful information for both you and others looking to try this out.
 
How do you keep such a low heart rate on so much amphetamine with a ritalin analogue? I get a heart rate of 119 from 60 mg of adderall at peak.
 
How do you keep such a low heart rate on so much amphetamine with a ritalin analogue? I get a heart rate of 119 from 60 mg of adderall at peak.

I am not so sensitive to adrenergic effects of stimulants. Also my pupil refuses to dilate no matter what, 500ug LSD or 40mg 4 aco DMT insufflated on top of 2.8mg DOB didn't do it, just to mention a couple of recent experiments.

A partial reason is also that taking straight stims (adrenaline/dopamine releasing or reuptake inhibitors) calms me down a lot and makes me uncaring of most things. Which helps me focus like, immensely.

Finally, your Adderall is probably stronger than my amphetamine sulphate on a mg per mg basis.
 
i would try to get under the treatment of a doctor for your ADD. your doses sound too high and not sustainable IMHO
 
i would try to get under the treatment of a doctor for your ADD. your doses sound too high and not sustainable IMHO

I'm in agreement with LucidSdreamr on this one. I really have an issue with condoning the use of the aforementioned substance. I think it's great that it's working for you OP, but there is really this lingering issue of Cardiotoxicity. We don't know if it is or is not, but at any rate, I am worried for you OP, because I would hate for you to feel like everything is going fine, only to find out that you have severely and permanently damaged your cardiovascular system.

Why is going to a prescriber not an option? If you have a decent job and are presentable, I would figure you could attain such drugs. This is not going to devolve into a "how-to", but I really think that you need to consider, at the very least, obtaining well-known and researched stimulants. This worries me, especially because your intention is, in fact, to use said drugs on a daily/regular-basis...
 
My concern would be i dont know much about a heart but that ctmp may be a 5 ht2b receptor agonist and that activation of 5 ht2b by drugs may cause valve problems and idk if you can even feel that.
 
At the moment I'm trying to hold off the CTMP and just use amphetamine sulphate.
I was under the impression that CTMP was not serotoninergic, do you remember where you got that info about 5HT2b agonism, d1nach?
 
Psychonautwiki lists this source

Arunotayanun, W. (2014). Chemical and biological studies on natural and synthetic Novel Psychoactive Substances. University College London (University of London). http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.626627

Additional references for 5 ht2b on wiki under "5ht-2b" supports the nonsited additional information concerning the dangers of 5 ht2b and heart problems
 
I tried to do a google scholar and Arunotayanun, W. (2014) was the only result for all of the research on 3,4 ctmp. I really really find that troubling. I am glad your holding off because basically youd be the lab rat. I dont think with almost zero research you can accurately weigh the risks.
 
Thank you so much d1nach, I will surely hold off from daily or frequent use of CTMP.
 
Tried using 3,4-ctmp daily, sensibly, but the duration is way too long, and the stimulation, harsh bodyload and extreme vasoconstriction made me revise my plan. Enjoyed the hyperfocus and productivity, but the side-effects made it a horrible experience, an experiment gone wrong.

Wouldn’t advice anyone to use it daily. Too harsh on the body and definitely cardiotoxic
 
Tried using 3,4-ctmp daily, sensibly, but the duration is way too long, and the stimulation, harsh bodyload and extreme vasoconstriction made me revise my plan. Enjoyed the hyperfocus and productivity, but the side-effects made it a horrible experience, an experiment gone wrong.

Wouldn’t advice anyone to use it daily. Too harsh on the body and definitely cardiotoxic

What was your dose, ROA and time before eventual redose? I didn't experience vasoconstriction, a bodyload, or a particularly elevated heart rate.
Even when combining with speed and caffeine.
Agree with hyperfocus (I might zone myself out sometimes while performing a task or thinking) and productivity.

Cardiotoxicity alone makes it a no go for daily use of course.
 
Orally, they came in 8 mg capsules. One was enough, but sometimes i emptied the capsules and took half the amount, 4 mg, as a redose. Redosing only led to complications, i soon noticed. Overstimulation for maaaany hours and massive panic and cold limbs, tingling.

Never used any benzo during this period. I’m so prone to anxiety, so stims, especially the ones with long duration and harsh bodyload, are useless for me without a stock of benzos. Rarely need them initially, but when the obsessive focus ceases i often get a highly anxiogenic response. So i’m sensitive, although i love stims and i actually envoyed the hyperfocus and potent cognitive boost 3,4-ctmp provided me with. Loved reading and writing essays during those phases. Maybe that’s why i gave it way too many attempts
 
Last edited:
It is my opinion that 8mg of CTMP is too much as a study/work aid. 4/5mg is enough in my experience. Ofcourse YMMV, but I would recommend that one abstains from taking such high doses, and to use a more researched compound instead.
 
Psychonautwiki lists this source

Arunotayanun, W. (2014). Chemical and biological studies on natural and synthetic Novel Psychoactive Substances. University College London (University of London). http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.626627

Additional references for 5 ht2b on wiki under "5ht-2b" supports the nonsited additional information concerning the dangers of 5 ht2b and heart problems

Thanks for the scholastic resource d1nach, it's very appreciated man!
 
Top