Returning to a Drug you Used to Abuse but for Thereputical Use

[Jabberwocky]

Hello all, I wanted some opinions on this topic. You could possibly see from my posts here over the years I've abused drugs for many years (I know that 'drugs' is very broad however I have abused most substances under the sun). In the past years they have been benzos and cocaine heavily. I used these substances to get 'fucked up' but of course the magic wears off especially with benzos.

I have been through heavy withdrawal on benzos and I know it really isn't nice (although I think some people have had it a lot worse than me (I am very fortunate for this). However I suffer from severe social anxiety when completely sober, meaning not when in withdrawal, just my usual self. It takes me at least 3 hours to get to sleep everynight (this is before any benzo use). This makes it very hard to make new friends and can cause excruciating discomfort when talking to people I do not know; going bright red, sweating, not being able to make eye contract and basically just wanting to run away from the situation. This can make work life very difficult which I believe sucked me into benzo abuse.

I have been through counseling to help get me through this and I practiced meditation for well over a year. The meditation did help with my anxiety when I wasn't in a social situation however when it comes to social situations breathing techniques just didn't help.

I am prescribed lorazapam 1mg daily however these social situations come out of no where at any time of the day and asking someone if I could go to the bathroom quickly and pop a 1mg lorazpam and then come back just doesn't work. On top of this I have a natrually high benzo tolerance (even the first time I took them) and couple that with years of abuse my tolerance is high.

I'm of the age now that I really think low dose clonazpam (I say low dose but I mean 2mg which isn't low for any inexperienced users so please anyone reading this do not start taking 2mg clon with no tolerance) can actually better my life in many possible ways without being messed up and go about my life feeling comfortable in my own skin and genuinely feel like I could better my life on this substance.

I know this is a harm reduction forum and I don't want anyone reading this to think 'oh if I take benzos my life could be better', because in a lot of cases it won't. But if tried all my other options and I've made the personal choice to go this way.


I like to know your thoughts on this and if any of you have made a similar choice. P.s I know this is only in regards to certain drugs. I can't imagine IVing H could any way better your life (however correct my if I'm wrong).

 

[CFC]

I'm really sorry to hear about your social anxiety I think on some level though, given your past experience with benzos and w/ds, you probably know that going to clonazepam every day isn't likely to turn out well in the long run.

How much therapy did you actually receive? Some types work better than others, and sometimes it's all about seeing the right practitioner. Social anxiety is ultimately caused by thought processes. If you can rewire the thought habits, you can at least reduce the automatic anxiety reflex.

Also, what other meds have you been on for SAD? How about non-addictive meds like propranolol and clonidine?

 

[raineday]

I've been on Xanax for 8 years. I tapered off three times, twice under DR care once on own, and while I felt an initial sense of accomplishment and even "okay" for a bit, my life unraveled each time and I got back on.

I fell back into the pre-Xanax life abyss of anxiety, not wanting to leave my house, talk to family or friends, and worked fucking SUCKED. It's a slippery slope, but I also have exhausted all other options, including other meds, various therapies, holistic approaches. Fuck, valium and other long acting benzos don't work for me, only take away withdrawal symptoms.

With that said, Xanax is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. The biggest fear to a user is running out. I've abused it and it's caused some major personal problems for me. I've been thrown into withdrawal and FUCK. I've ended up in the hospital three times. Once I was in day 2 of opiate withdrawal and ran out of benzos. I thought I had gotten lucky and had quickly gotten over opiate WD, but,nope, moments after the relief from popping a few xanax, the horrid symptoms came back, benzo WD had been masking them. And Opiate WD is a motherfucker, I can't chip, my body remembers it and I go through severe WD if I use, even for a short period.

So, yeah, I get the love hate relationship. I think the key is finding a good psych DR. I found an incredible psychiatrist/addictionologist/pharmacologist, who happens to specialize in anxiety and he gets it. If I run out a little early he won't make me suffer but he helps keep me in line. He doesn't write a script and send me on my way, and he is very accessible which is key. I know when I show up for an appt, I may have to wait an hour and a half or so, and I've had my sessions briefly interrupted because he's taking another patient's call, but it's worth the trade.

He got me down to 3MG, sadly a low dose for me, and I have to take less some days to keep help with the tolerance issue. I will probably be on a fluctuating dose the rest of my life which sucks and people judge me, doctors and pharmacists included. But severe anxiety is debilitating, and for some people I don't believe there is any other option. I personally just have to use self control, place limits, and be transparent with my doctor.

 

[Oxynormal]

Benzodiazépines are a ripoff by the pharmy companies are ultra addictive, more so than oxycontin my n2 friend and foe, courtesy of Johnson and Johnson

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm really sorry to hear about your social anxiety I think on some level though, given your past experience with benzos and w/ds, you probably know that going to clonazepam every day isn't likely to turn out well in the long run.

How much therapy did you actually receive? Some types work better than others, and sometimes it's all about seeing the right practitioner. Social anxiety is ultimately caused by thought processes. If you can rewire the thought habits, you can at least reduce the automatic anxiety reflex.

Also, what other meds have you been on for SAD? How about non-addictive meds like propranolol and clonidine?

I was only in counseling for six months (maybe I should have kept it going) however I've moved abroad now for work now. We went through basics such as triggers, breathing techniques etc which did help me a lot when I get anxiety attacks that aren't triggered by social contact. But it's like a snap reaction and I just can't put my finger on it because in some situations I'm absolutely fine but on a different day in a similar situation I will freak out. It's very strange and it feels 100% incontrollable.

My doc had me on various SSRIs and I was 160mg time release propanlol for about a year and neither of these helped.

I know daily use of clonazpam isn't a good idea however I feel it's the only option. This sounds very sad but a lot of good has come when I have been using benzos, my dream job (not solely to benzos but it helped me kill my interview) and 2 serious relationships I've had since my benzo use. Sounds ridiculous but I find it very hard to strike a relationship when I'm not on benzos but when I am I find it very easy, it gives me a sort of charm.

Even just writing on here now I'm benzos it feels words just flow from me much better and I feel so much more comfortable sharing things.

Maybe one day there will be a drug that stops anxiety, causes no harm to the body/brain, doesn't get you fucked up and isn't addictive (LOL).

 

[CFC]

Have you ever tried anything like pregabalin for the anxiety? It's a lot less addictive than benzos. I'd really recommend getting some professional support for this if you can though, and not just doing it all yourself. Maybe with some more counselling/CBT as well if you can get it where you are now.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you ever tried anything like pregabalin for the anxiety? It's a lot less addictive than benzos. I'd really recommend getting some professional support for this if you can though, and not just doing it all yourself. Maybe with some more counselling/CBT as well if you can get it where you are now.

I haven't read to much in to lyrica but from what I have read it does sound like something that may help. I will speak to my doctor in Norway (where I currently live) to see if it could be a possible treatment. Thanks for your help CFC, as always .

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've been on Xanax for 8 years. I tapered off three times, twice under DR care once on own, and while I felt an initial sense of accomplishment and even "okay" for a bit, my life unraveled each time and I got back on.

I fell back into the pre-Xanax life abyss of anxiety, not wanting to leave my house, talk to family or friends, and worked fucking SUCKED. It's a slippery slope, but I also have exhausted all other options, including other meds, various therapies, holistic approaches. Fuck, valium and other long acting benzos don't work for me, only take away withdrawal symptoms.

With that said, Xanax is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. The biggest fear to a user is running out. I've abused it and it's caused some major personal problems for me. I've been thrown into withdrawal and FUCK. I've ended up in the hospital three times. Once I was in day 2 of opiate withdrawal and ran out of benzos. I thought I had gotten lucky and had quickly gotten over opiate WD, but,nope, moments after the relief from popping a few xanax, the horrid symptoms came back, benzo WD had been masking them. And Opiate WD is a motherfucker, I can't chip, my body remembers it and I go through severe WD if I use, even for a short period.

So, yeah, I get the love hate relationship. I think the key is finding a good psych DR. I found an incredible psychiatrist/addictionologist/pharmacologist, who happens to specialize in anxiety and he gets it. If I run out a little early he won't make me suffer but he helps keep me in line. He doesn't write a script and send me on my way, and he is very accessible which is key. I know when I show up for an appt, I may have to wait an hour and a half or so, and I've had my sessions briefly interrupted because he's taking another patient's call, but it's worth the trade.

He got me down to 3MG, sadly a low dose for me, and I have to take less some days to keep help with the tolerance issue. I will probably be on a fluctuating dose the rest of my life which sucks and people judge me, doctors and pharmacists included. But severe anxiety is debilitating, and for some people I don't believe there is any other option. I personally just have to use self control, place limits, and be transparent with my doctor.

I wouldn't get yourself down about it. If you are under supervision from a trained doctor and this is the only option then embrace it. If it relieves you from the constant pain and you've exhausted other options then this may well be the only way. I'm not condoning this but I truly understand.

 

[Mysterie]

i suppose it depends what you want your life to be. but my thought is that taking a drug everyday to make it more comfortable to be in your skin, is going to have a detrimental impact on your growth as a person and your potential. i think its through confronting the fears behind something like social anxiety and better understanding what confronts us, which helps us to overcome these anxieties and become a fuller and more authentic person.
to learn from discomfort and have some willingness to try different paths to your goal, rather than avoid/escape discomfort which may have been what started after some traumatic event in early development which brought things to this place.

i tend to have a very low self esteem and find my social presence very awkward and shy and clunky. but i also contemplate on how i treat myself and others in daily life, how to become more mindful of my habits, thinking about diet, exercise, seeking counsel, relaxation techniques like meditation practice on a daily basis to help me navigate the turbulent waters of life.

drs have tried to get me to try antidepressants in the past and now i know western pharmaceutical medicine isn't actually going to help me get to where i want to be, because i realised i want to know and understand my feelings rather than let them become fuzzy and quiet.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i suppose it depends what you want your life to be. but my thought is that taking a drug everyday to make it more comfortable to be in your skin, is going to have a detrimental impact on your growth as a person and your potential. i think its through confronting the fears behind something like social anxiety and better understanding what confronts us, which helps us to overcome these anxieties and become a fuller and more authentic person.
to learn from discomfort and have some willingness to try different paths to your goal, rather than avoid/escape discomfort which may have been what started after some traumatic event in early development which brought things to this place.

i tend to have a very low self esteem and find my social presence very awkward and shy and clunky. but i also contemplate on how i treat myself and others in daily life, how to become more mindful of my habits, thinking about diet, exercise, seeking counsel, relaxation techniques like meditation practice on a daily basis to help me navigate the turbulent waters of life.

drs have tried to get me to try antidepressants in the past and now i know western pharmaceutical medicine isn't actually going to help me get to where i want to be, because i realised i want to know and understand my feelings rather than let them become fuzzy and quiet.

Hi Mysterie, I really appreciate this post it really has opened my eyes. I have tried this and in fact it has helped me a lot with my general anxiety. It's just the social anxiety in certain situations that is the real killer for me, I feel like I can't control it.

I have longing to be this confident person in all situations. Do you feel I should just accept who I am and build on that?

 

[Mysterie]

yes i noticed for myself, when i start to turn in the direction of accepting who i am and loving my peculiarities, it gives others the opportunity to also love me for who i am.

people pick up on the sense of ease and also feel comfortable in relation to you, if the story that is playing is that 'i am worthless', 'i'm boring', 'i have nothing to say', people pick up on that too and most are turned off. one can also just as easily repeat in their mind 'i am interesting', 'i am loveable', 'i have a worthwhile perspective', as an experiment to see how ones thoughts can really affect our experience of reality.

the journey is gradual, and it can be very frustrating to see how easy it is for other people to light up a room, and be friendly to other people and have this social support. but i am more friendly to myself than i used to be, i'm still willing to open myself up to new experiences and people and grow from it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

people pick up on the sense of ease and also feel comfortable in relation to you, if the story that is playing is that 'i am worthless', 'i'm boring', 'i have nothing to say', people pick up on that too and most are turned off. one can also just as easily repeat in their mind 'i am interesting', 'i am loveable', 'i have a worthwhile perspective', as an experiment to see how ones thoughts can really affect our experience of reality.

I find this very interesting and completely agree. This is something i'm going to try and research more. Thank you, this is possible the best advice I've ever been given (docs, therapy, parents etc), Thank you.

 

[Pill2Chill]

Spoiler: How I got social anxiety in the first place

I have really bad social anxiety as well. Before I started abusing amphetamines really bad for about 2 years (with a lot of weed on top) I was anything but anxious in social situations. One night when I had skipped 2 nights and was at a friend's during the evening of the 3rd night, which was my very first time staying awake that long. We usually would've been smoking weed from the start of the evening, but didn't manage to get it until a bit later that evening (which was very uncommon for us back then), anyway 1 little stereotype 'guido' who was there too that night, was playing music with a heavy bass. The sound system of the friend who's place we were at was quite powerful.. Anyway, once the weed arrived everyone was happy (I had let my friend use my scooter to pick up the weed since he didn't mind, and I wasn't feeling too hot. Then whiile I was smoking my first spliff of that day, he asked if he could go to a nightshop to go buy himself some candy and drinks, I was like sure. Then a minute after he left, he came back, and informed me that my scooter was stolen. Took a while before I believed him and I'm still not sure if I believe that he didn't forget to lock it. It was outside for only 15min between he came back with the weed, and asked to go the the nightshop. If it was properly locked, I don't believe the chain I was using could be broken in such a short amount of time... But there wasn't much I could do, not about my scooter, or about my friend whom I thought wasn't telling the truth.

To get to the point of this story, all the stress combined of my first time awake so long, smoking a fat spliff quite quickly after waiting for it all night. The bass that went through my entire body with every beat, and then the news about my scooter that had cost about 1.3k which (especially back then) fucking sucked so hard.

Suddenly it felt like my heart cramped together, and an insane rush of pure panic rushed to my head. I was about to say to my friend 'call an ambulance' (I thought heart attack at first, that's what I imagine it must feel like), but I stopped myself from saying it. Instead, without saying anything, I went to the back of his place to lie down (another friend of mine was there feeling like shit from smoking too much weed). The waves of panic lasted for 2 hours, eventhough I knew it was in my head. Finally after 2 hrs (about when the weed had worn off I guess), I told myself; You're gonna stand up now, and once you do, this feeling will be gone. I did, and it was.

I kept abusing amphetamines for more than a year after that, never had another panic attack of that magnitude... That one was insane and honestly very traumatic. Over the next year +, I developed anxiety, which I believe had everything to do with the weed as a trigger while I was already out of it from long-term stim abuse.

When after that year and a few months I finally decided I got no pleasure out of amphetamines anymore whatsoever. I finally quit (without any problems, I was so sick and tired of the chemical. During the 'recovery phase' from those 2 years, I slept most of the time during an entire month. About 20-23 hours out of every 24 hours, for a month give or take a few days. During the time I was awake, I smoked a spliff, and about 15min later I got the munchies so bad that I stuffed myself until I could barely move. Then it was usually about time to fall asleep again.

After the constant fatigue finally ended, I noticed that my anxiety hadn't gone away. It was a side effect I had really badly during the end of my amphet abuse, because it was really starting to show that I was really skinny, without any tan whatsoever.. And I felt annoyed and, yeah, anxious around people I didn't know, or didn't know that well.

I had never used any benzos until I noticed my social anxiety wasn't improving at all over time, while I otherwise felt like I'd recovered entirely, aside from that, which I felt was kind of a really big deal. Before amphetamines, I was extremely social and made friends super easily. And this social anxiety really, really bothered me since it turned that all around completely and later on induced an at one point extremely severe depression as well that I am still struggling with.

Finally I tried the benzos I knew my mom had (for plane flights and stuff like that - flurazepam). It felt so great to finally get some relief that i finished the box in 3 days. Then I tried her zolpidem (she takes that daily to fall asleep, so I never took her whole box or anything, I just took a 10-strip at a time. After a while I went to a doctor myself, and got a xanax XR script.. Then I started doctor shopping and heavily abusing all kinds of benzos combined and each of them at monster doses. I have a high tolerance to benzos naturally (else i would not have been able to eat 30 pills of flurazepam in 2 days with 0 tolerance, and remain awake the entire time.. My mom didn't even notice, nowadays she can tell if I took an extra benzo on top of my 12mg btomazepam via the phone, after I say 1 full sentence she always replies 'you took more than usual'. And she is never wrong either. But okay, the flurazepam was the 1st time. Maybe she just thought I'd smoked herb..

So that went on for a year, maybe a year and a half.. I was taking shitloads of benzos, as well as tramadol tiidine and codeine. I'd had a short but heavy thing with oxy before I took some safety measures and started taking the weaker opioids instead. Oxy was just not safe with the benzo doses I was taking. I'll give an example of what I dosed daily; 100mg diazepam + 10mg alprazolam + 10mg clonazepam + 10mg lorazepam + 10mg lormetazepam + 60mg bromazepam + 150mg oxazepam.

All of those together, on a daily basis. Doctor shopping for benzos here was SO easy (maybe still is, I don't really care, I get enough of em). And then I'd mix that with tramadol (every day, up to 1gram - I had plenty of anticonvulsants in me at all times), codeine (most days, 360-720mg each day) and if I had it, and didn't have a too high tolerance; Tilidine (The maximum of that I ever got SUPER high on, was 450mg of the XR tablets (3 X 150mg tablet) chewed. I don't think it broke the time release entirely, though just enough for the nalocone that is in every tilidine preparation not to start working (in 450mg there'd be IIRC 32mg naloxone, I'm not certain of this at all, but it was close to that number, and the threshold at which it became active orally was also around that number.

I tried 450mg of the instant release later, and barely felt a thing. So the XR was probably still active just enough to push the naloxone dose below the orally active dose.

Finally I realized what I was doing could be lethal, any day, any time. Those doses... I was even ashamed about posting that I took so much online. I flushed a whole shopping bag fullof benzos, kept only my diazepam, lorazepam and prazepam.

Within a week or 2 I was on 10mg diazepam in the morning and 2,5mg lorazepam at night. I had also cold turkeyed the opioids&opiates from the start (especially the tramadol felt shitty). Anyway, I spent 3 weeks in bed, shivering under a blanket, feeling too hot when I was underneath it, and super chilly when I got out from under it.

After those 3 weeks I went to stay w!th my mom for a while. I was trying to get off benzos completely, which I did (over the next month at my mom's. I slept about 1 hr a night for a month. But I didn't feel THAT bad, I just watched movies and series all day and night (the sleep deprivation and benzo withdrawal, paired with my social anxiety prevented me from doing much else like leaving the house, so there wasn't too much else to do. Then when I got down to zero finally (with some hiccups, my dad threw away the prazepam which was intended for the final step, but okay I got to zero.

Then about 1-1,5 month later I realized my social anxiety wasn't improving. So I got back on benzos. Only from that moment forward, I always kept my maintenance dose at 12mg bromazepam (except while I was in rehab, I was forced to quit benzos during those times obviously). In the how high are you? thread you can see I often take another benzo, to replace or even add to the bromazepam. I just don't ever do this long enough for it to make my dependency worse. 12mg bromazepam daily has always been and is still perfectly fine for my maintenance dose.

Actually, for the first time since I started using bromazepam 12 as my preferred maintenance drug (which by now is like 6-7 years ago). I have between 100 and 120 bromazepam pills saves up though if my new choice doesn't pan out, but it's the drug that they used in rehab to taper. And I really liked it, I have to admit. My new maintenance drug is clorazepate 50mg. The 50mg version is rather strong, and somewhat valium like, only with a (for me personally) proper dose per pill. 10mg diazepam is far too little for good and noticable effects IME, while 50mg clorazepate which has desmethyldiazepam (aka nordazepam) as main active metabolite. Not sure if the clorazepate itself is active, or has other active metabolites. But I'm done writing essays for today.. It's really starting to annoy me that I can't explain anything briefly cause I accidentally ate too much amphetamines for breakfast. So, the clorazepate research will have to wait for tomorrow. But I'm fairly sure it'll be a great replacement for the bromazepam. I'm rx'ed 2/day just like I was with bromazepam but I only use 1... So I'll build up a stash of these like I did with bromazepam (and alprazolam) now and then switch back. Hehehehe. I want a nice collection of all my favorite benzos, now that I truly have their use under control. It's opiates that I can't use sparingly. Anyway, time to go to bed.

Sorry for long post, I 'spoiler' tagged the part about how my social anxiety first manifested to keep things on topic, so feel free to skip that. Or this entire post. Imma reread this 2morrow without amps, but no way I'm editting this long ass postL

 

[Jabberwocky]

Spoiler: How I got social anxiety in the first place

I have really bad social anxiety as well. Before I started abusing amphetamines really bad for about 2 years (with a lot of weed on top) I was anything but anxious in social situations. One night when I had skipped 2 nights and was at a friend's during the evening of the 3rd night, which was my very first time staying awake that long. We usually would've been smoking weed from the start of the evening, but didn't manage to get it until a bit later that evening (which was very uncommon for us back then), anyway 1 little stereotype 'guido' who was there too that night, was playing music with a heavy bass. The sound system of the friend who's place we were at was quite powerful.. Anyway, once the weed arrived everyone was happy (I had let my friend use my scooter to pick up the weed since he didn't mind, and I wasn't feeling too hot. Then whiile I was smoking my first spliff of that day, he asked if he could go to a nightshop to go buy himself some candy and drinks, I was like sure. Then a minute after he left, he came back, and informed me that my scooter was stolen. Took a while before I believed him and I'm still not sure if I believe that he didn't forget to lock it. It was outside for only 15min between he came back with the weed, and asked to go the the nightshop. If it was properly locked, I don't believe the chain I was using could be broken in such a short amount of time... But there wasn't much I could do, not about my scooter, or about my friend whom I thought wasn't telling the truth.

To get to the point of this story, all the stress combined of my first time awake so long, smoking a fat spliff quite quickly after waiting for it all night. The bass that went through my entire body with every beat, and then the news about my scooter that had cost about 1.3k which (especially back then) fucking sucked so hard.

Suddenly it felt like my heart cramped together, and an insane rush of pure panic rushed to my head. I was about to say to my friend 'call an ambulance' (I thought heart attack at first, that's what I imagine it must feel like), but I stopped myself from saying it. Instead, without saying anything, I went to the back of his place to lie down (another friend of mine was there feeling like shit from smoking too much weed). The waves of panic lasted for 2 hours, eventhough I knew it was in my head. Finally after 2 hrs (about when the weed had worn off I guess), I told myself; You're gonna stand up now, and once you do, this feeling will be gone. I did, and it was.

I kept abusing amphetamines for more than a year after that, never had another panic attack of that magnitude... That one was insane and honestly very traumatic. Over the next year +, I developed anxiety, which I believe had everything to do with the weed as a trigger while I was already out of it from long-term stim abuse.

When after that year and a few months I finally decided I got no pleasure out of amphetamines anymore whatsoever. I finally quit (without any problems, I was so sick and tired of the chemical. During the 'recovery phase' from those 2 years, I slept most of the time during an entire month. About 20-23 hours out of every 24 hours, for a month give or take a few days. During the time I was awake, I smoked a spliff, and about 15min later I got the munchies so bad that I stuffed myself until I could barely move. Then it was usually about time to fall asleep again.

After the constant fatigue finally ended, I noticed that my anxiety hadn't gone away. It was a side effect I had really badly during the end of my amphet abuse, because it was really starting to show that I was really skinny, without any tan whatsoever.. And I felt annoyed and, yeah, anxious around people I didn't know, or didn't know that well.

I had never used any benzos until I noticed my social anxiety wasn't improving at all over time, while I otherwise felt like I'd recovered entirely, aside from that, which I felt was kind of a really big deal. Before amphetamines, I was extremely social and made friends super easily. And this social anxiety really, really bothered me since it turned that all around completely and later on induced an at one point extremely severe depression as well that I am still struggling with.

Finally I tried the benzos I knew my mom had (for plane flights and stuff like that - flurazepam). It felt so great to finally get some relief that i finished the box in 3 days. Then I tried her zolpidem (she takes that daily to fall asleep, so I never took her whole box or anything, I just took a 10-strip at a time. After a while I went to a doctor myself, and got a xanax XR script.. Then I started doctor shopping and heavily abusing all kinds of benzos combined and each of them at monster doses. I have a high tolerance to benzos naturally (else i would not have been able to eat 30 pills of flurazepam in 2 days with 0 tolerance, and remain awake the entire time.. My mom didn't even notice, nowadays she can tell if I took an extra benzo on top of my 12mg btomazepam via the phone, after I say 1 full sentence she always replies 'you took more than usual'. And she is never wrong either. But okay, the flurazepam was the 1st time. Maybe she just thought I'd smoked herb..

So that went on for a year, maybe a year and a half.. I was taking shitloads of benzos, as well as tramadol tiidine and codeine. I'd had a short but heavy thing with oxy before I took some safety measures and started taking the weaker opioids instead. Oxy was just not safe with the benzo doses I was taking. I'll give an example of what I dosed daily; 100mg diazepam + 10mg alprazolam + 10mg clonazepam + 10mg lorazepam + 10mg lormetazepam + 60mg bromazepam + 150mg oxazepam.

All of those together, on a daily basis. Doctor shopping for benzos here was SO easy (maybe still is, I don't really care, I get enough of em). And then I'd mix that with tramadol (every day, up to 1gram - I had plenty of anticonvulsants in me at all times), codeine (most days, 360-720mg each day) and if I had it, and didn't have a too high tolerance; Tilidine (The maximum of that I ever got SUPER high on, was 450mg of the XR tablets (3 X 150mg tablet) chewed. I don't think it broke the time release entirely, though just enough for the nalocone that is in every tilidine preparation not to start working (in 450mg there'd be IIRC 32mg naloxone, I'm not certain of this at all, but it was close to that number, and the threshold at which it became active orally was also around that number.

I tried 450mg of the instant release later, and barely felt a thing. So the XR was probably still active just enough to push the naloxone dose below the orally active dose.

Finally I realized what I was doing could be lethal, any day, any time. Those doses... I was even ashamed about posting that I took so much online. I flushed a whole shopping bag fullof benzos, kept only my diazepam, lorazepam and prazepam.

Within a week or 2 I was on 10mg diazepam in the morning and 2,5mg lorazepam at night. I had also cold turkeyed the opioids&opiates from the start (especially the tramadol felt shitty). Anyway, I spent 3 weeks in bed, shivering under a blanket, feeling too hot when I was underneath it, and super chilly when I got out from under it.

After those 3 weeks I went to stay w!th my mom for a while. I was trying to get off benzos completely, which I did (over the next month at my mom's. I slept about 1 hr a night for a month. But I didn't feel THAT bad, I just watched movies and series all day and night (the sleep deprivation and benzo withdrawal, paired with my social anxiety prevented me from doing much else like leaving the house, so there wasn't too much else to do. Then when I got down to zero finally (with some hiccups, my dad threw away the prazepam which was intended for the final step, but okay I got to zero.

Then about 1-1,5 month later I realized my social anxiety wasn't improving. So I got back on benzos. Only from that moment forward, I always kept my maintenance dose at 12mg bromazepam (except while I was in rehab, I was forced to quit benzos during those times obviously). In the how high are you? thread you can see I often take another benzo, to replace or even add to the bromazepam. I just don't ever do this long enough for it to make my dependency worse. 12mg bromazepam daily has always been and is still perfectly fine for my maintenance dose.

Actually, for the first time since I started using bromazepam 12 as my preferred maintenance drug (which by now is like 6-7 years ago). I have between 100 and 120 bromazepam pills saves up though if my new choice doesn't pan out, but it's the drug that they used in rehab to taper. And I really liked it, I have to admit. My new maintenance drug is clorazepate 50mg. The 50mg version is rather strong, and somewhat valium like, only with a (for me personally) proper dose per pill. 10mg diazepam is far too little for good and noticable effects IME, while 50mg clorazepate which has desmethyldiazepam (aka nordazepam) as main active metabolite. Not sure if the clorazepate itself is active, or has other active metabolites. But I'm done writing essays for today.. It's really starting to annoy me that I can't explain anything briefly cause I accidentally ate too much amphetamines for breakfast. So, the clorazepate research will have to wait for tomorrow. But I'm fairly sure it'll be a great replacement for the bromazepam. I'm rx'ed 2/day just like I was with bromazepam but I only use 1... So I'll build up a stash of these like I did with bromazepam (and alprazolam) now and then switch back. Hehehehe. I want a nice collection of all my favorite benzos, now that I truly have their use under control. It's opiates that I can't use sparingly. Anyway, time to go to bed.

Sorry for long post, I 'spoiler' tagged the part about how my social anxiety first manifested to keep things on topic, so feel free to skip that. Or this entire post. Imma reread this 2morrow without amps, but no way I'm editting this long ass postL

Good read actually as it's a similar story to mine. I think once you've smashed benzos for along time you kind of get bored of it but taking them at 'low' doses can be really beneficial for people with social anxiety etc.

Please don't take this as me condoning it but it worked for me.

I did decide to go with taking 2mg Clonazpam daily and it's only been 5 days and I already managed to get myself on Friday night and stayed with the girl all weekend. There's no way I would have done this if I was my usual socially anxious self.

I'll see how it goes for a few weeks. I may do a long taper see what life is like clean and take it from there.

I've also noticed I haven't had the urge to binge on Clonazpam. Feels very clean unlike etizolam for example where I would just go on a massive bender and eat them like candy and finally when it was over I'd have no money, caused various problems with people and generally feel really bad for what I have done.

 

[Pill2Chill]

Was clonazepam your benzo of choice when you abused them?

Because eventhough I did abuse bromazepam along with other benzos, the ones I liked the most (to abuse) were lorazepam, alprazolam and diazepam. Though diazepam I only like at higher doses (even now I require 30-50mg+ to really enjoy it), but since I had a huge stash of each of the benzos I abused back then via dr. shopping (sometimes I went to 3-4 dr's a day), that wasn't a problem back then. We had boxes of 100x10mg diazepam for 10eur too then, Rx only of course, but getting those was easy. Now the max. amount per box of any is 60 (some only 30, I think these are all still patented cause I've noticed none of these have generic versions).

So the benzo of which I've been able to keep the dose in check for so long, is one that I don't require a very high dose of (12mg, so 1 pill, does the trick), and taking more doesn't make it any more enjoyable IME. So if clonazepam was one you liked to abuse, I'd be very careful with that (for me personally, clonazepam is one of the least enjoyable ones, but I know a lot of ppl on here do enjoy it quite a lot).

 

[Jabberwocky]

Was clonazepam your benzo of choice when you abused them?

Because eventhough I did abuse bromazepam along with other benzos, the ones I liked the most (to abuse) were lorazepam, alprazolam and diazepam. Though diazepam I only like at higher doses (even now I require 30-50mg+ to really enjoy it), but since I had a huge stash of each of the benzos I abused back then via dr. shopping (sometimes I went to 3-4 dr's a day), that wasn't a problem back then. We had boxes of 100x10mg diazepam for 10eur too then, Rx only of course, but getting those was easy. Now the max. amount per box of any is 60 (some only 30, I think these are all still patented cause I've noticed none of these have generic versions).

So the benzo of which I've been able to keep the dose in check for so long, is one that I don't require a very high dose of (12mg, so 1 pill, does the trick), and taking more doesn't make it any more enjoyable IME. So if clonazepam was one you liked to abuse, I'd be very careful with that (for me personally, clonazepam is one of the least enjoyable ones, but I know a lot of ppl on here do enjoy it quite a lot).

I actually have only started using Clonazpam. My benzos of choice were diazepam and a shit ton of etizolam (easily my favorite) I used alprazolam and lorazepam from time to time as well which are very nice highs. Etizolam just worked so well for me in terms of getting high, it never made me tired, if anything it gave me energy, I got a niiiice body buzz of of it as well. Proper benzos i.e not RCs seem very clean and you don't feel messed up until you wake up the next day and realise you probably were pretty messed up which isn't that great.

Clonazpam I find very mellow and I can't really seem to get too messed up on it which is good for my situation at the moment. However add a couple of beers in to the fix and you get a very nice high,

My tolerance to was insane though I'd take 500mg of diaz to get a good feeling. I'd eat 60mg+ of etiz towards the end of my abuse career and I'd be fine (go to work which includes driving round most the day). Sounds insane driving around at work on 60mg+ of quality etiz. Especially when a first timer gets knocked out after 3-4mg. I wish tolerance didn't exist.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

...it's hard to return without abusing. I used to IV opiates just because...years later and age and a back surgery...I try hard to stay away from opiates despite moderate daily pain...when it gets bad enough that I have to gear up...I end up abusing the meds a couple times a week, not slamming them 2x a day like the old days but still a problem

 

[Jabberwocky]

...it's hard to return without abusing. I used to IV opiates just because...years later and age and a back surgery...I try hard to stay away from opiates despite moderate daily pain...when it gets bad enough that I have to gear up...I end up abusing the meds a couple times a week, not slamming them 2x a day like the old days but still a problem

Yeah I guess it depends on the drug and a persons willpower/situation.

I've been good taking my Clonazpam for the past week only taking a higher dose once.

However where I live now it's very expensive for Clonazpam and I only have enough to last me a week after I get paid so I know if I smash a load then I'll be fucked before I can get more (I see this as a good thing).

 

[Burnt Offerings]

There is nothing wrong with taking benzos to alleviate anxiety...that is one of their approved medical uses, after all.

Just don't rely on them as a crutch. A good rule of thumb IMO is just to avoid taking them daily.

I've never found them to be a particularly abusable or "recreational" class of drug, though. Nowhere near as enjoyable as dope, speed, marijuana etc.

 

[Pill2Chill]

I actually have only started using Clonazpam. My benzos of choice were diazepam and a shit ton of etizolam (easily my favorite) I used alprazolam and lorazepam from time to time as well which are very nice highs. Etizolam just worked so well for me in terms of getting high, it never made me tired, if anything it gave me energy, I got a niiiice body buzz of of it as well. Proper benzos i.e not RCs seem very clean and you don't feel messed up until you wake up the next day and realise you probably were pretty messed up which isn't that great.

Clonazpam I find very mellow and I can't really seem to get too messed up on it which is good for my situation at the moment. However add a couple of beers in to the fix and you get a very nice high,

My tolerance to was insane though I'd take 500mg of diaz to get a good feeling. I'd eat 60mg+ of etiz towards the end of my abuse career and I'd be fine (go to work which includes driving round most the day). Sounds insane driving around at work on 60mg+ of quality etiz. Especially when a first timer gets knocked out after 3-4mg. I wish tolerance didn't exist.

Etizolam is a thienodiazepine, which IMO (based on personal experience) is the reason so many people are so fond of it. There are 2 thienodiazepines available as prescribed medications here, both (incorrectly) listed as 'benzodiazepines' in the official Belgian pharmaceutical database (namely brotizolam and clotiazepam). I've tried both of these pharmaceuticals (etizolam as well). All 3 of these drugs have a certain euphoria unique to thienodiazepines (not even flunitrazepam has this kind of euphoria, it's a really nice benzo, with a great sedative effect that does feel good, but not truly euphoric like thienodiazepines). The only benzodiazepine that can really compete is IV midazolam, because it has a really lovely rush with its own brand of euphoria I suppose you could call it.

/e: reopened after accidental close.