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Hi there! A little help?

Thanks so much, KraziKat. I hope you are able to beat this. Are you a PM person? As a PM person here, I had to do something to cut myself off from the PMD. I smoked mj a couple of times so I couldn't back out of telling him to ct me off. I knew I couldn't pass a UA anyway, so it made it pretty easy to consider that source closed. I'm not a fan of mj, but as far as sacrifices go, it was minimal to say the least. I had been trying to taper - pretty. Unsuccessfully and for reasons that I will never understand, my requests to be switched back to oxy - a MUCH weaker med than what they had switched me to, had gone all but ignored. I was only offered comfort meds after I grew tired of the game, smoked mj, quit taking the meds and announced at my next appointment that I had stopped taking them and didn't want anymore. I'm still struggling a little with anger towards the 2 PMD's I saw. (One of which -the one I switched to for help tapering off the medication - a joke, I have an appointment with in 2 moths to discuss a nerve stimulator). In the 6ish months that I complained to TWO DIFFERENT PMDs that I thought the medication was making the pain worse, that the benefits of taking the medication no longer outweighed the downside and that I wanted to stop taking the medication to see where my pain level was without it, I was tapered from 60mg to 40mg. Every time I tried to go to 30mg on my own, serious withdrawal kept me from staying there - I'm self employed and outside of a nice long Christmas break, I couldn't just take even a week off. I guess I just say all that to you because before this, I trusted my doctors. Now I think they're as duped as we are by bigpharma. If you really want off, unfortunately, you may have to do it by yourself (or with the help of people/places that don't benefit financially from you coming in for your own personal handcuffs every month. I wish you the best and would be happy to answer any questions or anything if you'd like. I'm not sure I'm qualified but could share my experience.

ON the Kratom:

I did something that was maybe kind of stupid to stop taking it. I'll suffer through the embarrassment of sharing because that's what this forum is for, sort of, right? I took loperamide - 2 doses of 50ish mg - for a 24 hr period. All the research I did on it boiled down to: that, in clinical trials, healthy adults could take up to 60 mg with no adverse effects except some potential vomiting but it was uncommon. My plan had been to take it for three days if needed, tapering each day. Two things happened that made me stop sooner: 1) on the morning of the second day, UNlike every 4-6 hours with the K, my symptoms felt manageable, 2) it worked SO well that it scared me and I worried that any more time with it would turn into a K situation and I'd just be hooked on it...in addition to the fact that I'm trying to heal my body and mind and anything that is stopping that process in its tracks is going in the wrong direction. I think that 24 hrs with Lope was very helpful for me - I think I would have suffered a lot more quitting the K at a time when I already felt ready to crack - but I don't really recommend it because of the dangers - I don't think anybody going through this can be called an "otherwise healthy adult."

So, for what it's worth, there is a little secret I was keeping. Sorry for the Novel. I AM feeling pretty good this morning!
 
TY for sharing your Kratom experience. I got some Kratom to keep on hand while going through long term use oxy withdrawals. I'm still on day 6 and have not touched the kratom mostly because I'm afraid of trading one addiction for another.
 
CF - if I could have made it to day 6, I would not touch the Kratom. You are correct to be worried about trading dependencies. You are through the sprint. Unfortunately, you probably have a bit of a marathon in front of you. I read some of some of your threads and it sounds like you had tapered pretty well, though. That should really save you some pain in this, from what I understand. SIX DAYS? Congratulations! It only gets better from here. Just not quite as fast as we'd like - for me anyway, but I wasn't able to taper the way you did. So, maybe you're almost done...one day at a time. (That's not intended as an AA or NA blurb, just happens to be the way I had to take this thing on, I would have lost my mind if not. I thought so many times, "well, today really sucks, but I'm gonna make through and hopefully tomorrow will be better. And then, viola! eventually ​it is!)
 
Sounds like you are in a good headspace with all this, Mel. And no, I am not a PM person, just a self-medicating addict. Maybe I'm a junkie. Oxy has been my crutch to stave of the monotony and stressors of everyday life. And between oxy runs (which have lasted years), I have been a kratom addict. I just want off the merry-go-round so to speak.
 
Good Lord, I'm tryin', KraziKat. The way the symptoms come in waves now is...annoying? Frustrating? Fucking mind boggling considering since this thing began I was told 3-5 days? Also, maybe we're all junkies. Doesn't really matter one way or the other; the pied piper will be paid, either way. In all the endless research I have done over the last few months, I haven't read anything that says, all other factors being equal, that "junkies" suffer worse withdrawals than "legitimate pain management patients." Of course, that doesn't take into consideration the psychological dependency that I would assume is more present in the former...or PAWS. But there is also nothing that says you can't be both. I think toward the end, I certainly was. Getting off those damn things has been a heavier burden than I thought it would be, for sure - particularly duration-wise. I'm still suffering, but less and less all the time - except when a wave of icy-hot/anxiety ridden/muscle spasm washes over me. But the duration of the waves is getting shorter (usually) and they are coming farther and farther apart. It is certainly nothing I can't handle to be free of those pink pill-shaped handcuffs.

I wish for strength for you. You can do this.
 
Your handcuffs are pink, mine are blue. Shackles. Thanks for the strength and support and right back at ya!
 
People need to stop worrying about PAWS, it just doesn't happen that often. PAWS is going through wds all over again, months after recovery. Its not the depressed, lethargic feeling after the acute stage. That's still just withdrawals.
 
My understanding of PAWS is that it is a sort of depression usually coupled with an inability, or at least lowered ability to feel pleasure from ordinary (non-chemical) stimuli/activities and sometimes other acute type withdrawal symptoms but with less intensity. I'm not sure where I got that from, though. I've definitely read conflicting stuff on it. I'd really like to read something definitive and trustworthy. Do you have something like that to share? If not, no worries. I understand what you mean. This is hard enough without worrying that it is going to last (almost) forever. Thanks, Alldonewithit.

Day 22- Welp, I finally woke up without anxiety. I sure hope that sticks. Not waking up in w/d, needing to take something in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning is as sweet as I thought it would be. Yesterday afternoon was a little was a little rough for some reason. Making dinner with my kids helped - made me forget. Yes, sir. This is gonna be great. I am closer every day to not having my thoughts stolen from me by that deceitful drug. I can't wait. It feels pretty good, already. I'd say my feeling of normalcy is at about 80%. It still varies pretty widely, though, throughout the day/s. I have zero desire to go back to the way things were. No cravings, whatsoever.

My pain level has come up some over the last several days. That sucks. 3 Advil 3x/day and a topical pain relief compound are keeping it in check, though. It's in the 30's here again and I think, with metal hardware in my foot, it's probably just always going to be more painful when it's cold. I can live with it. And if I can't, maybe I'll try the nerve stimulator. Anybody have any experience with one?
 
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A few more things I forgot: Trazadone is what finally helped me get some sleep which has made all the difference, IMO. However, I scheduled a massage day before yesterday, forgot to take the Trazadone and slept for 5 hours. So, I'll be doing that again. Also, sex (w/the hubs, not alone - not sure why there seems to be such a big difference in the effect on sleep [*blush*]) is immensely helpful with sleep. I started a yoga routine last night that I found that is supposed to help with sleep - jury is still out (not usually a yoga person, so...). I think I'll take the trazadone a few more days and then start rotating with just melatonin - every other day, then just melatonin, then nothing. I took 2 .5 Xanax yesterday and will take 2 today as well if needed - but it's looking pretty good for no on that. I'll continue to take those on an as needed basis but will not exceed 2 in 24 hrs (hopefully) again and will quickly (again, hopefully) move to 1 in 24 hrs, then 0. I don't know exactly why Calm Support seems to work so well for me, but I'll continue to take that along with the other supplements I've been taking, until I run out.
 
Congrats on all the great progress. Is Calm Support otc? Or something you can only get online? I am assuming it is homeopathic. I actually once had great anxiety relief from passionflower, though I may have imagined that.

Also, what dosage of melotonin do you take. I have never had success with it. And I've heard both; that less is more, and more is best. Wondering what works for you.
 
I ordered Calm Support online. That's the only way I know to get it but if you order it through Amazon, you can contact the seller (can't think of their name) and ask for faster shipping - they did that for me and it arrived a day before the 7 day window it was promised in (so, in like 3 days). It has passionflower, among many other herbs and stuff, in it. Also, showed it to my dr and he said it was fine to take with all the other crap I've been taking.

I've never tried melatonin before but what I've read says, if I remember correctly, 3-12 mgs. Depending on how long your going to take it and why; jet lag, sleep disruption, trouble falling asleep, etc. I'm going to chat with my dr about it first, so I'll post on that and my results in the few days.
 
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So, it's 7am on Day 23. I've been up for 30 mins but went to sleep at around 11. Almost 8 whole hours! The anxiety came back off and on yesterday. Not as bad but still there. I took both .5 Xanax. I guess I really need to hold onto and enjoy this morning time - not needing anything right away. It's a huge deal, but it's hard to stay positive sometimes throughout the day when this feels so variable and feeling good can feel so fleeting. Even with all the sleep, I feel a little exhausted this morning.

I've got a thing to go to this evening and I'm not really looking forward to it. Basketball game with the hubs and another couple. Late evening has still been pretty rough and the game doesn't start until 7. Drinks and apps/dinner before. The thought of drinking alcohol is still pretty unappealing to me. Maybe, at this point, it won't hurt? Maybe I'll order a sprite with grenadine in a short glass. Ugh. Don't wanna go. Any advice on the alcohol? Will one *courtesy* drink make me feel shitty after?

Went to see a movie with the fam last night, though. Jumanji - really funny. It was good. Not just the movie. So, maybe tonight will be, too.

Also, I'm not sure if I've caught something or if I'm experiencing really late in the game physical symptoms that I didn't have before - sneezing and GI issues. The GI issues are minor but noticeable. The sneezing is driving me mad. Several times an hour. Nose is almost constantly itching. Anybody been through this?


Warning! Potential Trigger Language:
Last, I had a craving yesterday. I have a little safe that I used to keep my pills in to keep them/my kids safe. It's just a small combo/key safe and I decided to put some other stuff in there since I don't need it for its original purpose anymore. Um, the feeling I experienced when I opened it was, bizarre, to say the least. My body reacted with glee before I had a chance to even think. That was immediately followed by what can only be described as a craving. Some sort of muscle memory, maybe? Anyways, I threw that thing in the trash. $40 or so bucks I'll never get back, but small price. That feeling really sucked. Geez, this is the weirdest, most challenging crap.
 
I hear on the trigger -- I have em all over my house. So many "stash" spots. I rummaged through em all last night out of habit, ensuring they were empty, from opiates at least. I have other drugs in those spots, but none I am hopelessly addicted to.

And about the alcohol. I don't think one or two drinks will hurt at all. I'd even try and enjoy them.
 
Yep. I'm. Gonna take it real slow and if I start to feel shitty, stop. Unless I'm not feeling it and go the grenadine route - which is pretty sure to get some pregnancy rumors started, haha. There are worse things, I'm sure (than the rumors, not pregnancy - 4 is PLENTY).

How's it going this morning?
 
I highly suggest not drinking alcohol. I haven't drank in 15yrs, and 3 weeks into my detox the family went out to dinner, and i had 4 beers. Was feeling really good, thinking i Was finally going to get a full nights sleep.... Wrong!!! RLS came on strong, and i barely slept. On top of that i felt like shit the whole next day, after i felt i was starting to come out of the fog the day b4.
 
Wow. It is actually painful to look back at my original quit date - at least a month before I signed up for BL - and think of all the time I wasted and where I would be now if I had made that work. Precipitated WD made it an incredibly short lived attempt. But an attempt it was, none the less. 3 1/2 months ago. The thought of where I would be now, if only I had, makes me feel...shame. Shame but also sadness for the real me and the person I am trying to get back to, that lost that time. And ALL THE TIME I SPENT SICK between then and now. What. A. Shame.

Im proud of myself for making it work this time. Don't get me wrong. It's just that...thinking about it still stings a little.
 
Alldonewithit, did the sneezing come on this late? Do you still have anxiety?

Yeah, I'm still going back and forth on the alcohol.
 
Melhell said:
Yep. I'm. Gonna take it real slow and if I start to feel shitty, stop. Unless I'm not feeling it and go the grenadine route - which is pretty sure to get some pregnancy rumors started, haha. There are worse things, I'm sure (than the rumors, not pregnancy - 4 is PLENTY).

How's it going this morning?
Click to expand...

It's going real well for me this morning, thanks! I didn't take anymore sub yesterday, so stuck with the 4 mg total. But I was buzzy and wired, like I said, kinda medicated. When I got home, my son asked, "Are you in a good mood?" -- Goddamn those pills made me so damn moody! Ugh, I could be such a dick, high and low, between and on doses.

So I couldn't sleep. Is that normal on subs? I wound up taking a 10 mg ambien which put me out. I woke this AM feeling a little RLS, in slight WD. I took 2ish mg sub and I feel pretty good now.

I have a lucky snow day day here in NJ -- they closed my office and it's not even that bad. So I took my kids to day care, wife is at work in the city, and I got the house to myself, "working" from home.

I know it has its drawbacks and all kinds of horrible things about it that people say, but suboxone, to me, right now, is a miracle drug. I have this dull headache still, but other than that very "normal" feeling. But I must remind myself to not get HOOKED on it.
 
I couldn't sleep well on subs either. I'm glad the ambien is working for you. Be really careful with what you take with subs, though. They have an incredibly high affinity to your opioid receptors, higher than medications used to pull you out of any potential danger. So if things go bad, they go real bad. I don't mean to scare you - Just sharing some of this soon-to-be irrelevant to my life information I have accumulated... You might be taking a low enough dose that it's not an issue. I'm sure other, smarter, people on here could tell you. Anybody?

YEAH for snow days, am I right?! Here in TX, we've had a snow day and late starts, too. It's been nice. If the cold must be endured, at least let us sleep in (A joke- I can't wait till I can sleep in again-it's my favorite). I have the house to myself for the first time since I quit and it is niiiccceeee.

Glad to hear your doing well! Also, look into how to take the sub (you said it's a strip, right?) while spitting what is left over in your mouth after it's dissolved. When I was taking subs, I got headaches but not nearly as bad after I followed someone's guidance on the spitting thing.
 
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