Hi there! A little help?

[jdfisse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperalgesia

Opioid use, whether prescribed or illicit is problematic when it comes to chronic pain. The same way we were bombarded with "Milk it does a body good!" because of the dairy lobby, the pharma lobby gave us opioids as a panacea for every pain issue.


***Editted: MBSR is Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction. Check out Jon Kabat Zinn. Tara Brach. Jack Kornfield. Sharon Salzburg. A daily meditation practice has worked wonders for me. The Dalai Lama said, "If you can't find 5 minutes in your day for meditation, you better find an hour!"

 

[Melhell]

Awesome... Thanks so much, jdfisse! Great info and I HATE big pharma, sonofabitches. That stems from before this issue in my life - this has just made it that much more personal. I cold go on about big p, but won't.

So, I feel like, so far, so good. But, I'd like to get back to my normal life. My plan had been to not go back to work until next Tuesday - will be 14 days. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how I look at it), that's not going to be possible. I have 2 new clients and one existing client that need stuff to happen now. My question is, I feel like I haven't found my "sweet spot" with the Kratom. It varies so widely as to how I feel. I think a lot of that is WD but I'd like to make sure without derailing my hard work and it'''d be real nice to get that work done before I get fired. Really, I probably have a few more days before it would be a problem, but I'll stress about it until it's done. My question is: Will it hurt, other than really suck, maybe, to just stop taking the Kratom in morning and see where I am? I have been super grateful for the Kratom, but I don't want to switch addictions or prolong my withdrawals - which I still feel like they are coming on pretty strong between Kratom doses and sometimes while on Kratom, although I'm not sure that's what I'm feeling. I'm wondering if I'm taking too much Kratom? Maybe I'll just take a 1/2 dose and wait and hour and then proceed accordingly. I REALLY don't want to prolong the wd is my main concern here.

 

[Melhell]

Please advise!

So, I ended up going from around 10g to 6g this morning and I feel much better. It was a kinda rough morning but I'm grateful to have tapered a little and feel better. A little icy hot here and there but I think that relates a lot to the cold snap we got. In the 20's in Texas. I still can't get warm! But it's all getting better every day.

Day 9, ya'll!

I don't think I've said this before on here: I'm taking calm support with the Kratom and it makes a HUGE difference in how I feel. I ran out and won't have more until tomorrow or the next day. I didn't realize how much difference it was making until it was gone. Highly recommend it. Also highly recommend DL-Phenaldine (I'm sure I misspelled that). Anybody wanting to get off opiates for good should check both out. The difference in mood and outlook is noticeably improved with these two supplements for me.

Edit: Okay its now noon. I took the 6g from 5:30 to 7:40 am. I am POSITIVE that what I was experiencing at 11:20ish was opiate withdrawals (opioids and opiates are interchangeable, right?). I am really sick of this. I took another 6g about 30 mins ago and the chills and stuff are gone, but I think I just don't like the way Kratom makes me feel. I am using up all my comfort meds to sleep at night - less and less every day but in a few days, I will be out of xanax. I am a little concerned that I am messing this up and going to pay in a few days. Should I try to switch to tramadol, loperamide, both, neither? Stay the course? I know it's only been 9 days but I thought at least the fucking icy hot, major dysphoria would be gone by now in addition to the fact that the icy hot is clearlly a symptom of the Kratom wearing off. WTF should I do? I probably have enough comfort meds to be able to just sleep for 1 1/2 - 2 days, mostly. Timewise, I am at the end of what could possibly be "the flu" and I need to make this work better. Any advise? Anybody?

 

[Reanimator13]

Hi Mel . Im a PM guy also. Lost insurance. 10 year high dose morphine habit. Did my withdrawal last year. I did not use kratom or too many comfort meds. Some xanax, gabapentin and clonazepam. You have a ways to go on this. Tough it out. Its going to be an up and down roller coaster for months to come. As far as work goes... Suck it up and just go. If this sounds harsh its not meant to be. There really is no easy way out of this. If you were pain management and have pain issues thats going to come into play too. Stay the course... if you look through my big thread you will see how much of a roller coaster it was for me. One day your okay the next you feel like a truck ran you over. Its doable though... suck it up... Stay the course. Just don't trade one habit for another ( Kratom or any other addictive drug ). Withdrawals will pass. my Best...

 

[Melhell]

Christ, R13, you're an animal! I'm so happy for you and your thread gave me some much needed hope today. I really appreciate it. I was flailing a little. Went, worked out and feeling much better. This is going to be a longer roller coaster than I could have imagined in my worst nightmares (that first day at the PM doctor). Isn't it interesting how the medication they give us to help with the pain ends up making it WORSE? You having lower pain after getting off the meds makes me joyful. I'm pretty sure I'm on my way to that sweet reward, as well. Thanks again, man. Great thread.

 

[Melhell]

So, I went to the dr. Yesterday and got an Rx for .1 clonodine patch and Hydroxyyzine 10 mg. After I got home, I checked out the Hydrox when I got home and it has been used in the Travis county jail and a hospital in Austin for 20 years for Opiate withdrawals. In much higher doses then what I got. So, I haven't taken any Kratom since yesterday morning. I feel awful. Skin is crawling, etc. I'm thinking of tapering off the Kratom but I'm not sure if that's just my brain trying to get some more opiates in it. If my stomach would stop hurting, I could just lay here and be OK. I have on the patch and have taken the hydrox this morning but can't seem to find any relief. Am I kidding myself and should just stay away from the Kratom? Any advise would be really appreciated.

Day 11, sort of. Day 1 1/2 if you count the Kratom. I'm losing my mind, a little. I need something to give, and soon.

Edit: took 5 g of Kratom. Somebody please say a prayer for me or send some good juju my way. I'm running out of willpower. I hate this. I want off this rollercoaster.

Anybody have any quick Kratom taper threads they could point me to? Or have experience similar to this and can help me decide the bast game-plan?

 

[VastEmpty]

Mel -

i have used Kratom for the acute wds off opiates. I would recommend a quick taper. Unless the symptoms are tolerable and you can push through. For me, Kratom is a life saver in acute wds, but I have to be careful I don’t take it more than 5-7 days or the same thing will happen to me - I’ll feel acute symptoms in between doses, etc. my goal with Kratom is always to just spread out the wds to make them tolerable...as kind of a parachute that fails 20 feet before you hit the ground. You still come crashing down, but Kratom does even out and lessen that crash.

You up will need to push through these last few symptoms in order to move forward and let your body heal. That being said, 10 gms is a lot to jump from.

- VE

 

[Melhell]

Thanks, VE. So, should I taper down a gram a day or faster - and then jump from where? I don't know if it helps or not that I don't like the way Kratom makes me feel - or I am just still feeling the w/d from the stronger meds I was taking. I don't want to exchange one problem for another, but I don't see that happening. I have zero of the carrot left and am left only with stick here. I just wanna know what the fastest/best way to get rid of it is. Do you mean 10g a day? I will have taken 9 today. 8, less or none tomorrow....?

Could you give me an idea of your Kratom taper so I can try to apply it to my situation?

I've also considered loperamide or Syrian Rue to help me get out of the last of this. I have read about both and know they both have some issues. I know about the MAOI properties of Rue and would obviously follow that diet, not do Kratom, etc. if I went that route. Anybody have any experience with either of these?

 

[Melhell]

So, good news in my world. I tapered down to 5g today. That was 3g at 10 am and 2g at 6pm with the wd symptoms from 3-6 being very manageable - I actually took a nap with no chemical help except the colinipin patch. HUGE. So, a pretty big difference from even just yesterday. I'll either take 2 1/12 or none tommorow. I'm not sure if 1 1/4g would even have any effect anyway so ill only do that if I wake up with same slowly intensifying chest tightness that I've been waking up with. I actually have hope now that I won't. That and a little bit of tingly skin, some boughts of emotional distress, And a complete lack of motivation to do anything are really the lingering we symptoms I'm experiencing. I'll be done with this taper by Monday - day after tomorrow. I'll keep posting here. There aren't really enough success stories posted. I think that has more to do with people feeling better and getting back to their real lives than actual lack of success stories. I was really grateful for the one I read a few days ago. Between some newfound hope and the clonipin patch from my dr, I'm outta the woods, ya'll!

Day 12 - I feel like I woke up almost normal this morning. I slowly seeped into some withdrawal that prevented me from completely free today. BUT, I am so grateful for the 20ish minutes I got to lay in bed and didn't have to get up and take anything. I bet by next week, that feeling is going to last all day and I CAN'T WAIT.

 

[VastEmpty]

That’s awesome, Mel! Congratulations on turning a corner.

As to the taper, first and foremost, trust your body. If you can go down quick, then that’s the best option...but you shouldn’t be crawling out of your skin. Just take as little as possible and wait as long as possible between doses.

Just remember that there are ups and downs at this stage...revel in the good times and remember them when the bad times come back. And always remember that your body is healing. No pain no gain, right?

- VE

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Hi MelHell- I'm so glad you started this thread, I'm so sorry that you ended up in the situation you are in. I understand how awful it is to try to take care of our children no matter what, only to find that they knew the whole time that we aren't as well off as we pretend. I hope that someday you share your experiences with your children, they are so smart when they are still able to listen (before those teenage years when they know everything). I know that when I am honest with my children (they are all older 16-26, two of which are also step children) they take a lesson from my suffering which I hope sticks!

That weekend when I dropped the oxym was probably the most miserable days of my life. My doctor prescribed some anti-anxiety meds that really helped me to feel better emotionally. That was the worst part for me, waking up the way I did with the absolute NEED for more meds. Emotionally and mentaly I was broken in a way I have never felt before. I needed the medication to make me... whole? normal? better? human? I can't even tell you what, except that for the first time it wasn't related to my physical pain, but rather my mental state. I think that feeling terrified me more than anything. I have never before felt a mental or emotional need for pain medication. I have never felt so broken and desperate for a drug. It was god awful. I never want to feel that way again. I fought to make it through that weekend, tooth and nail. I cried, I screamed, I hurt, I hated, I feared. I hope I never feel like that again.

I have taken pain medication for many years. I take a weekend off occasionally, and while it is not easy, it has never been so horrid before. I truly believe that oxym is a much more addicting medication than any other medication that I have ever taken. I will never take it again. How are you doing now?

Hope- grsh

 

[Melhell]

I'm really glad you replied grsh. I am doing okay today. I just took 2mg Kratom (2pm and I've been up since 7:30 but had a 3am wake-up call and took 1g then) and am hoping my skin will stop burning and my chest will loosen up some for a while. I'm pretty bummed that I needed more today. I'm also afraid it's making the wd longer. I am going to try to not take anymore Kratom today. Tomorrow is another story. We'll see. Feeling pretty beaten down. Somebody earlier said that the Kratom was like parachute that fails 20ft before you hit the ground. sounds like as good an analogy as any. I'm thinking of pouring all this Kratom out and accepting my fate - that last 20ft's gonna be a doozy, I guess. After I am through this, I will never, and I mean never put myself in this situation again. I never want to fucking see another opioid. I just wish this part would pass. It's enough to make you go mad. The anxiety is the worst - not symptom, I just mean it's the worst anxiety I've ever experienced. I have a newfound respect for those who suffer from anxiety. This really sucks. I agree with you on the oxym. That shit is the devil. If only I had known... I hope you are doing well. I hope whatever medication you are switching to works for you.

Best-Mel

In the amount of time it's taken me to right this, my physical symptoms have dissapaited substantially. I really don't want to be hooked on anything else. This has been one of the most challenging and painful experiences I've ever been through. I don't know if I could do it again on my own. This Kratom has got to go. Any input or advice from anyone on whether I should throw it out or try to taper more? I think it's helping me not be so physically (and maybe a little mentally) miserable, but I'd pay good money to have the physical symptoms be gone. Is it prolonging or can I taper further and avoid the physical pain?

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Ii don't know much about kratom... but if it is a good safety net, maybe you can just hand it to your husband for a couple of days so that you can see how you do without it? There are others here that know lots more...

I went back to the oxycodone that I took for years. My body is to broken to get off meds completely, but I have never felt the way I felt on oxym on the oxyc. NEVER! I am still keeping a tight control on my dosing, doing my all to keep below the prescribed dose, and taking weekends off (when possible). Keep in going- you're in the home stretch!!

Faith and hope- grsh

 

[Melhell]

I haven't taken Kratom in a few days now. I have also since tried Syrian Rue and Lopermide. SR does not help at all. As a bonus, it made me unable to take most of the comfort meds I had at the time due to it's large list of contraindications. Ugh. Loperamide works too well. I was terrified that I'd end up either, hooked on anti-diareal medication (that has major dangerous side effects if taken too much or for too long) or it would just prolong this the way I think Kratom has. So, I'm now taking xanax and ambien. I went to my regular doctor and told him what was going on, that the meds my PMD gave me weren't helping as much as I'd hoped and I would kill for ONE good night's sleep. So far, both meds have been a godsend. Other that the constant ball of anxiety in my chest (which .5 xanax 2x daily just barely puts a dent in, but a dent none the less - and that was one symptom that was really wearing me down -), I am doing okay. The ambien I only got yesterday and didn't realize you kind of have to take it in bed. Within 5 mins of when you want to sleep or you miss the window. I'll take it correctly tonight.

Day - 17 - I sure wish the anxiety and insomnia would go away. I sure am glad the icy skin is (mostly) gone. I also wish I hadn't taken the Kratom so long. I think I'd be farther along if I hadn't.

 

[Melhell]

Day 18 - update, the Ambien doesn't work for shit. Gets me about 3 hrs sleep, tops. Headed back to my dr. Today to see if I can try something else. Another $60 copay plus whatever the new med costs (assuming there is something else I can try). FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I have got to get some sleep. I'm not really the praying type, but I've been doing a lot of it lately - particularly between the hours of 2 and 7 am. Fingers crossed that the anxiety (which I think is really closely related to the insomnia) goes away like the icy hot skin symptom did. It was strange but it was quick. I just realized a few days ago that getting out of bed, going outside, walking past the refrigerated section of the grocery store, etc., didn't exactly really hurt anymore. I still have some sensitivity to cold, but it doesn't hurt, and it doesn't linger way beyond the exposure to the cold. My bones are finally warm again. So, that's something. If I can just get some sleep and my adrenal system calmed down, I'll be in the clear. I still wake up with the need to take a xanax - I had never really had unexplained anxiety before this (several years ago both of my mother figures died within a year of each other - I ended up with some xanax to help me get through it. But that was way different than this, I knew exactly why I felt the way I did and because of that, it felt much more manageable. It also was, on a scale of 1 to 10, a 3 or 4 whereas this anxiety is sometimes an 11), so maybe I'm a weenie in that department, but waking up feeling like an elephant is on my chest has gotten really old. I'm over it. It needs to go.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Unexplained anxiety? I don't think that is the truth. I know that anxiety, and have felt it. It's explained by the fact that you are no longer using the opiates your body thinks it needs to feel 'normal'. Anxiety is the result of your body wishing for that opiate. Give it some time for your body to work itself out. Know that the anxiety is directly related to losing the opiate. This was a HUGE part of why I stopped taking the oxym- the horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible anxiety it caused. There is a very specific cause, time is the only fix.

My doctor put me on buspirone- it helps a lot! I've been back to oxyc for almost 2 months now, I still have a touch of that oxym anxiety and take the busp occasionally.

Give yourself time and credit! You're fighting very well in the very up hill battle!! Can you talk to your doc about gaba pentin? I think this helps me a lot in that struggle as well! I take 3 or 4 at night- they also help me sleep. I think it is related to the ambien, but different.

Yours in hope- grsh

 

[Melhell]

Yeah, I meant more along the lines of anxiety that isn't, for example, the reaction to almost being in a car accident. That's what my chest and gut feel like - a lot; like I just barely swerved in time to miss that head on collision. It's bizarre. And scary. And wearing. And infuriating. Builds on itself almost. I get that it is a side effect of the wd, it's just strange to me to have a damn near anxiety attack sitting in my bed, life is good (other than this bs I'm going through) and getting closer to freedom every day. That's really interesting that it's, at least somewhat, more common with oxymorphone wd.

OH, believe me, I am giving myself credit. I am very proud of what I've managed to do over the last 18 days. It's easy to lose sight of that when you feel so shitty all the time, so, thanks.

Also, I have Gabs, just not too many left. My RX is for 300 mg per night and I have been taking them in higher doses now to help with this that I really have to only take one per night, now. I will run out before my refill but I'll have tapered them and don't see any issues.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

I've yet to go through WDs from gabapentin. and I've been taking it for years. I often forget them when I go on trips, such as over the 4 day Thanksgiving weekend, and nothing that felt like with drawl. I'm sure you will be fine.

Take good care!

 

[Melhell]

Good to know. Thanks.

So, it's 6am on day 20. I've been up for 2 hrs but slept last night from 10 to 4 with nothing but a little .5 xanax and some mj - I don't normally partake in that so very, very little makes me giggly, hungry and then sleepy. I feel better than I have since this whole ordeal began, in spite of being awake so early, which I despise. I can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel this morning. Starting to think about my office and clients, which hasn't really happened up until now. Thank God I did this over the holiday break. I will set a few goals and get them done today. I think that's the next step for me here. Get back to work. It feels pretty good to feel something other than misery this morning.

I still had to take a .5 xanax this morning but feel much better instead of continuing to feel the ongoing anxiety that had been preoccupying my days even with medication that was supposed to help it.

I'm going to repeat this from an earlier post because I think it's important. I think I took Kratom for too long. It was a godsend for the acute period, but after that, I think it prolonged the agony. I think I would be farther along without it. Maybe it's just coincidence, but since I stopped taking it, my symptoms have improved almost every day. Some days are better than others but I am on an upward trajectory and I don't think that was the case before I stopped the Kratom.

On a completely unrelated note, (I assume that I can ask this since it's legal most places) I have a ridiculous amount of Kratom left over, that I will never take. Probably a little over a 1/2 Kilo of a few different strains. Do I just have to dump it? Since it's legal in my state, can I give it away or sell it? It was so helpful initially that I'd like to pass it on to someone to help them but I'm not sure if I can. Any advice would be appreciated. If this in inappropriate for this forum, an edit would be equally appreciated.

 

[KraziKat]

My last quit, I went from oxy to bupe to kratom. I'm not so sure I want to land on kratom this time around as I never got off it and went right back to my DOC. Sigh.

Great fighting, Melhell.