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TDS Abusing alcohol for sleep, need some advice, supplements?

Seattle_Stranger

Seattle_Stranger

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Mar 5, 2009
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Hi all. I won't blabber on and on about my problems, I just need some advice.

To make a long story short, I have been drinking daily for the better half of a decade, and although I've cut out hard alcohol, I still drink white wine like a madman, especially when trying to sleep. I've had insomnia my whole life (real, true insomnia) and as of the past several years, I've been using alcohol to fall and stay asleep. I will wake up several times a night and chug white wine to fall back asleep, and repeat this process all night, every night. Now, it's not working anymore. I drink 3 liters of wine over the course of yesterday, including an entire 1.5L bottle simply trying to fall asleep, AND DIDN'T SLEEP. I'm drinking more than a 1.5L bottle every single night. It's starting to really wear me down, and I'm obviously not getting quality sleep. I'm sick of living like this, and I need some help.

I'm interested in some advice, and maybe any supplements folks in my shoes might use for sleep. I took melatonin last night and that didn't help one bit. 100mg diphenhydramine can help occasionally, but usually doesn't. I bought a tub of tryptamine but haven't tried it yet, any experience with that? I also need advice on how to, well, simply drink less. It's the first thing I look for when I arrive home from work, first thing I want before any activity at all, I'm completely hooked and it's not even really doing much to make me feel good anymore...

Can't believe I let this happen...

Thanks in advance.
 
A lot of people think that hard alcohol is worse than wine or beer. The main difference is that it is easier to consume greater amounts of ethanol over a short period of time when drinking liquor as compared to beer or wine. The way liquor, wine, and beer is metabolized and absorbed into the blood stream is basically the same. If the same amount of ethanol is consumed either through liquor, wine or beer it will result in the same BAL and enter the bloodstream at about the same rate. So taking a shot and shotgunning a beer have about the same results in terms of metabolization and BAL.

Most people who struggle with regulating their use of any substance find that a long period of abstinence is the only way to truly regulate use. I tried for years to smoke less and keep my pill habits under control. I had brief periods of success, ranging from a few days to a month or so, but inevitably my use would ramp back up. The problem isn't lack of will power, it has more to do with a lack of healthy coping mechanism, using alcohol/drugs as a means for coping, and levels of chemicals in the brain. The body tries to remain at an equilibrium. Introducing a psychoactive substance into the mix throws off the balance by causing either increased stimulation or decreased stimulation. In reaction to this, the body adjust the levels of chemicals it produces, either ramping up or down the levels of chemicals in relation to the increased or decreased amount of stimulation. This is tolerance and physical dependence.

As far as supplements go, 5-htp and L-dopa are the precursors to important neurotransmitters in the brain so supplementing them can help, but as long as you are manipulating the levels by means of a psychoactive substance(alcohol), balance will probably never be obtained.

Melatonin takes a few weeks to a few months to really kick in. It doesn't really make you sleepy so much as it helps your body to develop regular sleeping patterns.

If you are getting proper nutrition then supplements aren't really necessary, but one of the problems with alcohol is that it affects digestion and can prevent your body from getting proper nutrients even if your diet is on point. A lot of mental problems caused by alcohol are related to a thiamine deficiency and are managed with thiamine supplementation.

Apart from diet, physical activity can really help stimulate neurotransmission and assist with sleep. Routine and habit can also impact sleep. Exercising early on in the day, no naps longer than 15-30 minutes once per day, staying out of the room/bed you sleep in until it is time to sleep, and then sleeping in total darkness(i.e. no T.V. or computer) will all help to promote healthy sleeping habits. Also, avoid sugar or carbs before bed and don't eat 1-2hrs before laying down.
 
I won't quote the verse from the AA book but it just shows how crazy us drinkers are. We switch from whiskey to brandy, brandy to wine, wine to beer etc. In the end its still alcohol going into your system, different types just absorb faster.

You (myself included) need to drink less, eat a lot of whole foods and exercise the extra calories out. Make sure you take your B vitamins or eat lots of meat. Wet brain/alcohol psychosis is irreversible.

Supplements that can help are BCAA's that weightlifters take to prevent muscle breakdown as your body cannot absorb the proper amount of nutrients while there is alcohol in your blood stream. Drink lots of gatorade or fruit juice when you first sober up as your body will be craving the sugar that you got from your alcohol intake.

However its friday so I am drinking up.
 
I hate sleeping, love drinking, but had to cut back on my drinking because it was aggravating some severe heartburn. I used to drink daily, and often it would help me to force myself to sleep. I still drink a few days a week, sometimes more. I only cut to reduce my chronic heartburn. Anyway, when I have to force myself to sleep I try doxylamine succinate (the stuff in some Unisom pills), sometimes benadryl, sometimes kava, sometimes random herbal "calming" pills. I've found that the stuff with doxylamine in it instead of diphenhydramine works better, for me. Sometimes benzos too. Benzos work the best obviously, but aren't good if you can see yourself being addicted to them. I personally am able to use benzos responsibly and rarely take them so I'm not worried about developing a problem but it just depends on you.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Sorry for my delay in replying, it's been a busy week.

Some good ideas here. I tried 100mg diphenhydramine last night and still went through another whole 1.5L bottle trying to stay asleep. I honestly gave it a try to abstain as much as possible last night, and still found myself having to open another bottle of wine by about 5am to knock myself out again. This is so frustrating. I totally understand that alcohol is alcohol is alcohol, I get that. I avoid the hard stuff nowadays simply because of the concentration of it. I'm obviously going to go overboard with whatever drink is available, so if I at least keep hard A out of the house, I'm a bit better off. It also makes me feel a little bit better about it when I read of some benefits that wine can have, but obviously not in the quantities I'm consuming, so again, not fooling anyone. I'm going to try and load up on some of the suggestions in this thread, thank you guys for that. I'll try doxylamine, definitely should not go the benzo route. I do take a good assortment of vitamins daily, including B-complex and magnesium, I have a very healthy diet, I drink tons of water, and am pretty active so hopefully I can turn this thing around. The insomnia is my worst enemy though. I totally could consciously stop myself from drinking excessively in my waking hours, even after work, it's really not THAT bad. It's the falling and staying asleep I struggle with. I swear I'd probably be ok with having just a beer or two after work until bed time, if I could at least fall and stay asleep, I wouldn't really even crave the alcohol very much. I won't lie, it is fun as hell to chug some booze, get all nice and warm and fuzzy, and lay down in my comfortable bed, it's heaven! Closest thing to an opiate high I can come to (a road I won't go down again). I know I can kick that habit, I simply need to occupy myself some other way, that's not the issue. It's sleeping when all my problems arise.

Thanks again all.
 
Weed is the best sleep-aid for me. In my case the insomnia is completely hormonal (menopausal onset). Like you, it is staying asleep that is the problem. I guess you have already tried this and for whatever reason it does not work? I like to use an edible and then read until it kicks in.
 
Also quick and short (only my personal opinion)


  • You are an alcoholic.
  • Sleep problems are now alcohol depended.
  • Go to a doctor, try to get Baclofen.
  • Start making sport (this is a must)
  • Get rid of your demons.
    • with religion
    • or Buddhism
    • or with the help of a psychiatrist
    • if you are strong, may be a trip (LSD, mushrooms, etc.) can also help (but be careful!)

Recovery helpers: Mulungu (Erythrina mulungu), Ashwegandha, Valerian Root, 5-HTP, Curcuma + Black Pepper, Melissa, milk thistle, passionflower
 
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I also used alcohol as a sleep aid. It worked until it didn't. I remember getting two bottles (1.5L total) thinking that would be enough for me to pass out. It wasn't. I was up all night. You need to get detoxed first. You can do it the old fashioned way and taper yourself off (it can be done; visit hams.cc/taper for advice on how to do that); you can go to a hospital and get a short benzodiazepine script (likely Librium or Ativan) so you can self-detox (that's what I'm doing right now), or check into an inpatient detox for 7-10 days. If you haven't done inpatient, that might be a good way to go because they can direct you to longer-term treatment. There are plenty of non-benzo sleep meds for the long term. I personally take gabapentin and mirtazapine, but trazodone and zolpidem are other popular options.

EDIT: With melatonin, less is more. The more you take, the less effective it is. Stick to small doses.
 
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Thanks again all.

aihfl - I'm in that exact boat. 1.5L of wine is simply not enough anymore. I've officially hit my breaking point, I am so sick of going full work days on nearly no sleep whatsoever. I made an honest effort to not drink so much last night, smoked strong indica, took doxylamine (as recommended above), drank lots of water, ate nice warm chicken soup, I even had some kratom later in the evening, and had a minuscule (for me) amount of wine before bed. Lied down and refused to get up for as long as I could stand. Eventually just couldn't lay there anymore and got up. Eventually polished off the entire 1.5L bottle trying to pass out, and popped another. I'm so disappointed in myself, but I also know I can fix this. I'm going to start tapering down on EVERYTHING, not just the booze. I had a wild weekend full of whiskey, LSD and cocaine, completely overdid it, and now I'm just frustrated with myself. I think I've turned that mental page of being officially over it and ready for a change. I'm lucky I've "gotten away with it" for this long, however I wonder what undetectable damage has already been done.

I don't care what it takes. I want my life back. I took some amazing acid at an incredible cabin in Montana with a group of awesome friends, and just couldn't stop myself from pouring whiskey after whiskey, so I got nothing out of the trip, just mild visuals. What a waste. It's time to taper down, which I don't think I'll have too bad of a problem doing if I can just fall asleep! The constant need for a buzz, I can fight that, I'm not worried too much about that. I just need sleeeeeeeeep...

I don't think benzos are a good idea, I clearly have an addictive personality. Baclofen, that's similar to phenibut right? If so, that could be a big helper, because phenibut SEVERELY decreases my cravings for things like kratom and booze....but it's just another chemical I'm putting in my body.

I'll report my progress. Thanks again for the help.
 
Well, mentally I feel like I'm making progress. I'm able to abstain from drinking, at least heavily, until at least bed time. As noted previously though, that's when my real demons arise. I've successfully gone the whole day and evening without a drop, but then come time to slip into bed, the cravings are unbearable. I feel mega stimulated and restless in bed until I have a drink, then I calm down and eventually pass out....only to wake up again a couple hours later. However, I am successfully tapering (in relative), and haven't quite been finishing the entire 1.5L in a night. Weekends have still been rather reckless. The victory here has been finally entering a stage where I truly do desire to end this cycle, and many times have found myself reaching for the bottle, and being able to put it back down and tell myself "Not now". For me, that is a win. :)
 
Glad to hear about your progress. That's great that you limit yourself to drinking until it's time to go to sleep. I've been waking up hung over and shaky and end up hair of the dogging it and end up drinking all day; not getting stupid drunk but enough to have a mild buzz. Then the cycle repeats itself the following day.

I was on baclofen for alcohol use disorder for several years. I don't think it has the physical addiction potential of phenibut. Baclofen was touted in some circles as the miracle cure for alcoholism but it wasn't for me. I still drank heavily while taking it, and the dizziness and disorientation that results was thoroughly unpleasant. I quit taking it when the copay for it tripled.
 
Trazadone. And taper down, so you may actually need to start drinking earlier if the traz works. Traz makes one feel horribly hungover, but only for a couple of hours, and only for a few days. Most widely prescribed sleeping aid in the world, for good reason.
 
Hey Seattle stranger.

just a little advice, alcohol is a GABBA potentiator, this means when alcohol binds to Gabba receptors and then so does Gabba the alcohol increases the effects of Gabba.
the effects of Gabba are to inhibit neuronal activity by promoting hyper polarisation. Basically, your neurons need to go from negative to positive to talk to each other and Gabba makes the cells more negative, alcohol increases this effect.
with constant daily exposure like yours the brain attempts to combat this effect by producing more excitatory neurotransmitters to function normally(read more dopamine, more adenosine, etc) or by producing more receptors for these neuro transmitters so that your neurons are more "sensitive to them"
the problem here is two fold, firstly if the alcohol intake you have stated here is accurate please do not attempt to suddenly quit cold turkey and without first consulting your doctor as you are at risk of delirium tremors. A potentially fatal withdrawal syndrome from depresents like alcohol and benzos.

secondly by the same mechanism, the over stimulation of excitatory circuits is what I believe is preventing you from sleeping, and causing the restless symptoms. I believe the agitation you are experiencing is the first stage of withdrawal syndrome. You may have suffered from insomnia before your alcohol dependancy but at this stage it is the cause of it.

hope this can help you
 
I just ordered a giant bag of epsom salts. Epsom salt baths (if you have a tub) are a fantastic way to relax and get ready to sleep. Just one more suggestion from a fellow insomniac who has gotten it fairly under control.:)
 
I agree on the Epsom salts, I like the one with lavender. I only use meds if I’ve fallen into a bad pattern (less exercise, lots of travel, bad sleep hygiene). If I don’t halt it quickly I fall into depression. It’s one of the reasons I prefer trazadone, very easy to start and stop.
 
Ugh, insomnia was how my alcoholism started. Reading this reminds me what a living hell alcoholism is 8(

Now I look back and wonder why I preferred to be hungover to tired. Insomnia can be really frustrating/stressful but alcohol (in excess) is just horrible.

All the best! ;)
 
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