Do People Choose their Beliefs? What are the Ethical Implications of our Response?

[drug_mentor]

No, this thread is about one thing.... "Does God exist"?

You can't prove your argument
You can't disprove my arguement

There is no objective proof or disproof of whether we chose our beliefs. Thus this is a pointless infantile "dick measuring contest" argument.

There is no objective conclusion.

Only conjecture and speculation.

Your God claim is a non-sequitur; not all unfalsifiable claims are identical. God has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

I can't disprove your argument, but I do take myself as having provided some fairly solid grounds to doubt its validity. I notice you didn't bother to engage with any of my counter-arguments.

This is a philosophy forum, philosophical arguments rarely have objective and certain conclusions. If you have a problem with this, it isn't clear why you would even post here. If you think the thread topic is pointless, it certainly isn't obvious why you have chosen to participate. About the only field of philosophy which consistently gives objective and certain conclusions is logic. There is a certain amount of irony in the fact that in the other thread you recently engaged me in discussion, you seemed to attempt to dispute one of these objective and certain conclusions, namely, that indicative conditionals contrapose. (I say seemed because, I must confess, it was never very perspicuous what point you were actually trying to make in that thread.)

I do reject the claim that arguing about things that have no definitive answer amounts to dick-sizing, or is otherwise pointless. A good many important questions have no definitive answer, but just because we can't know the answer doesn't mean it is irrational to prefer certain answers to these questions over others. Engaging in philosophical discussion and debate is a good way to clarify one's thoughts on a matter, to have the weaknesses of one's position exposed, and to be forced to take other perspectives seriously. Not to mention, I find it a stimulating and rewarding exercise.

 

[alasdairm]

What are those things? I can't exactly believe in something if I don't know what it is I'm supposed to be believing in, can I?

you don't know what planet earth is?

No, this thread is about one thing.... "Does God exist"?

not really. i think you have - deliberately or otherwise - missed the point.

There is no objective proof or disproof of whether we chose our beliefs. Thus this is a pointless infantile "dick measuring contest" argument.

there's absolutely nothing dick-sizing about this discussion. it's a simple discussion of an idea. the fact that something can't be proven doesn't automatically render the discussion worthless. if that were true - and you truly believed it - why are you bothering to comment?

i feel like you're just trying to create friction here, rather than address the issue...

alasdair

 

[MtnHi92]

I agree that there is no control over what we truly believe, in my case, what we believe to be true or false in regards to a higher power. I was not raised Christian but when I was 4-8 yo I was back and forth from my mom's to my father's family as my dad died when I was 4 and his family battled to take me under their guardianship. They are to the bone Catholics and this is where I witnessed those who claim their salvation thru Christ, resulting in total disgust and resent towards the Christian life style thru my whole childhood into young adulthood, still deep down i desired to know and dwell in a higher power for that idea gave peace to my young and scared self..with both parents dead by age 7 I desired to believe I would see them again and thought only a god can deliver this desire but was scarred from Catholic hypocrisy and wickedness.. I experienced many trips on hallucinogens, stims, opiates etc and, in the beginning, would always find a spiritual experience that stemmed from the amount of energy and love shared between my friends and I, leading my beliefs toward a universal deity that connected us thru energy sharing..or rather, the universe is our God and energy is how we live and influence each other..dwell on negative energy and one will become hostile, paranoid, fearful etc. Vise versa for positivity and such vibes can be felt by anyone from anyone near or far.
So many years of my young adulthood spent searching for deeper intuition and stronger inter-personal connections thru drugs and their ability to let the mind travel unknown areas of our subconscious mind.. Eventually led to a H addiction at 19 with a newborn daughter to raise. There was no option left but to quit the shit or end up with daughter to state custody and us to rehab as this was a ultimatum we were given. Medical Rehab didn't happen but we overcome the H and were trying to get it back together while staying with family. As time went on I started dabbling with pills and just about to 21 I hit the booze and partying scene. My wife didn't revert or relapse for she is much more willed than myself. She had always been faithful in Christ since childhood so she started going to church with my family and the pressure was on me to give up my partying and selfishness as I watched my wife and daughter slowly grow without me and was as hard headed as they come. I went 3 months without seeing my girls since they went back to her home 16 hours away..a dozen drunken nights, broken fists and windows, smashed up vehicles. I finally felt I had no way to better myself without help. I started seeing the preacher of the church in counseling sessions still reluctant to the choice to confide in the church. Eventually I desired peace and glory more than my previous lifestyle of being the guy with the party plan. And after a month of learning how to seek, listen, and acknowledge help fRom blind faith in an unknown but all knowing being..One day I woke and said my morning prayer, opened my eyes and BAM!! I felt like I was lite as a feather and sharp as a tac, walking in peace! Downright stupid peace like nothing I can explain or had ever thought possible to encounter. This was when my reluctancy vanished and I knew the real truth that comes with the spirit of God.
So i knew believing in Christ was needed but until I had the experience to show proof for my doubts I had no way of choosing what to believe but that experience and influence both determined my disbelief and new found beliefs in Christ.
Furthermore I am 4 years past that time and have come back to a place of shadowy doubt and a bit bitter towards my Savior. I never truly gave my addiction to Him in the idea that Jesus and the holy spirit is all our flesh needs for redemption and peace and abiding in anything else is worldly praise, unfaithful and sinful nature that condemns us to focus on the wicked desires that plague the earth..always leading to conviction of my motives and desires and sometimes excruciating guilt that was never present before my acceptance of The Lord as my Savior. The preacher who kindled my fire and brought me to Jesus became intertwined in his personal endeavours and the church became redundant and hard to relate with as time went on. I have fallen back to self praise and material progress in measurment of my growth while ignoring the spirit for reasons like drug use, lying, or whatever else makes me feel inadequate of the mercy He is capable of delivering to any who give their sinful past present and future to him.
Beliefs are held true or false to the sum of our experiences that contend or prolong such ideas and what we do to further strengthen these ideas will determine what truth reigns supreme in our lives.
Beliefs are meant to be shaken and in turn either strengthened or disrupted and without that morphing it cannot be more than a idea.
Sorry for all the nonsense but I hope someone enjoys as much as I did with the thought

 

[Xorkoth]

Not nonsense, man, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I have a deep respect for the Christian faith, I think at its core it is beautiful and I've seen it do a lot of good in the world and to individuals, my mother for instance, although it has of course done a lot of bad too (Catholicism comes to mind). I personally moved away from it and I believe what you talked about in the middle, that we are all the universe, the universe experiencing itself subjectively. I have attended churches for years at a time as an adult (after being raised Methodist and gradually moving away from it). A good church is a beautiful thing, some of the warmest and nicest people, and they do a lot for the community. I find a very warm feeling in participating in that group practice, it's centering and satisfying. To me it's still just a group ritual, basically, not that that's bad at all, humans use ritual to enhance belief in something and to attain altered states of awareness. And when done in a group as a part of a tradition, it becomes more powerful.

 

[Shrooms00087]

I think we inherited a blank slate, a sandbox game. Doesn't matter what you choose or do. Even suicide/murder is up for grabs.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, but why is it that some people choose to go there but most people don't?

 

[Volsam]

I agree with -=SS=- statement.

I think human beliefs is a summary of complex combinations of inputs and resulting experience that "falls" into a soft and comfortable niche that we eventually start calling "beliefs". We would adopt any beliefs if they are easy, if they help us to survive and live prosperous and happy.

So I think we do not really choose our beliefs consciously, they rather resulting from life experiences that force us to rearrange our model of truths. In a way, our beliefs may be viewed as an enveloping karmic path, where we might think that we choose consciously but actually just acting upon what we experience.

And I think beliefs are strongly tied in to our memory and so they are it in a certain way...