Open Discussion suggestion - bluelight irc server

Anybody can log the chats, I have in the past to keep memories of fallen blueligheters. Unfortunately the hard drive I was storing it on died before the invention of cloud storage. This is something that needs to be brought back to life for those that are in crisis mode and need someone that has been in that situation.

I really miss BL IRC, it was one of the best things and is one of the reasons why I avoid the lounge these days. I mean, how does it feel when a mod on the lounge tells you to go kill yourself? Back in the day like 10 years ago, BL was full of peace, love, understanding and respect. Nowadays it just doesn't seem the same.
 
Idk still seems kinda superfluous to me but if the brass want it what can I do. Is all that chat readily retrievable? That was my worry about being harder to mod. Anyway I have no power.

With that attitude you would not be invited to the irc. Superfluous? irc used to thrive back in the day. I've been on bl longer than you no disrespect.
 
.
I really miss BL IRC, it was one of the best things and is one of the reasons why I avoid the lounge these days. I mean, how does it feel when a mod on the lounge tells you to go kill yourself? Back in the day like 10 years ago, BL was full of peace, love, understanding and respect. Nowadays it just doesn't seem the same.

Woah woah woah woah... The way you said it made it sound like a Lounge mod is telling people to kill themselves, rather that someone who is a mod went into the Lounge and joked 'KYS'.

I still love soulseek. Upgrading my music collection will be a never ending endeavour.

Iirc there used to be a bluelight chat room on there years ago, although it's long gone now. Anyone still using it?

There were Bluelight channels on various chat programs in history. Chat is useful for immediate live communication with little to no logs, but there could be a lot of potential to violate BLUA much too easily on IRC chats. Someone would have to be in these channels 24/7 to monitor what goes on, and even then, if a chat picks up, it'll take a lot of time to read-through time-sensitive exchanges.

Setting up an IRC client on BL servers would be best if it required a chat account tied in to an account on the forum. And for there to be a logging system for site mods and admins to access.
 
With that attitude you would not be invited to the irc. Superfluous? irc used to thrive back in the day. I've been on bl longer than you no disrespect.

None taken but pretty sure Id be invited :p . If it thrived, where is it today though? I have no issues with impromptu or informal things like this but what Blue_Phlame says about monitoring the chat is exactly what I was getting at here. Its hard enough to keep up with violations here let alone a place where the chat is in real time.
 
Chat is useful for immediate live communication with little to no logs, but there could be a lot of potential to violate BLUA much too easily on IRC chats. Someone would have to be in these channels 24/7 to monitor what goes on, and even then, if a chat picks up, it'll take a lot of time to read-through time-sensitive exchanges.
there's no more potential or ease to violate the BLUA in chat than anywhere else on the board. just like on the forums, the number of ops for a given channel would depend on how active it is, and bluelight staff is distributed all over the world so its unlikely that there would be nobody available to handle a situation if one arises, but even in the worst case scenerio, if its an official extension of the board then the admins and super moderators would likely be global ops, just like on the forums, so a quick message or report to one of them is all that would be needed to deal with things if there's no ops currently available at the time.

Setting up an IRC client on BL servers would be best if it required a chat account tied in to an account on the forum. And for there to be a logging system for site mods and admins to access.

i partly agree with this. there are services that can be used to lock a username to an individual so that nobody else can use it, but i dont know if it would be possible to crosscheck a user's IP on the board vs the one used in chat to prevent impersonation (perhaps ensuring that a user's email matches their email on the board when registering a nickname? this is something that would have to be looked in to), but if its found out that somebody is impersonating another user, its pretty simple to fix. anonymous posting is allowed on the board though (well, kind of), so people should be allowed to go into the chat anonymously if they want, and it can be set up so that non-registered users can spectate but not talk, same as it is on the forums. channel logging is easy to set up, using a bot if nothing else, but just like on the board private messages should be left private. an official irc server would be an official extension of the board, so there's no real reason to be even more restrictive and invasive than on the forums.

None taken but pretty sure Id be invited :p . If it thrived, where is it today though? I have no issues with impromptu or informal things like this but what Blue_Phlame says about monitoring the chat is exactly what I was getting at here. Its hard enough to keep up with violations here let alone a place where the chat is in real time.

the original one was shut down by the admins, despite it thriving. its a decision they forced on everyone else. the first unofficial #bluelight channel, on undernet, thrived for many years, but eventually atrophied away and died because the regulars were extremely hostile to new people; after a few years and with no real way to pick up new users, it slowly withered away to nothing. another #bluelight channel was started on another irc server and it too thrived for years, but fell to the same thing, hostility to newbies and no real way to reach out and pick up new users. if you build it, people will come, especially if its an official chat server, with a webchat page here on bluelight to put users directly into it, like we had in the old days.
 
Last edited:
To be honest tath, Im not entirely against it just seems like extra work for no reason. The fact people got hostile to noobs then makes me positive it will happen now too.
 
I'd enjoy an IRC channel, I miss idling in them all day like I did all throughout the 90s/early 2000s. Got to see a lot of things go down in real time: first mp3s, first leaked Dreamcast games, lots of fansubs begin worked on. I really miss those days. I'd much prefer IRC to almost anything else since you can encrypt the traffic and hide your IP. I'd never join a BL discord for several reasons. Whatever rules y'all want to enforce would be easy to do provided you had people in there that knew how to moderate the thing without begin overbearing.

Also, I find it odd we're concerned about security on IRC when this site uses cloudflare.
 
Such as? You can run an ircd with encryption and all that, but theres not really a need for that when the primary use is socializing and quicker/real time harm reduction advice.
I'm talking computer safety, not information safety. IRC is easy to use as a vector for malicious software.
 
Last edited:
I'm talking computer safety, not information safety. IRC is easy to use as a vector for malicious software.

Source? I've never heard of anything that makes it any riskier than anything else.

If you're referring to the fact that files can be sent through irc, that only puts it on the same risk level as email and pretty much everything else on the internet - don't accept and run programs from untrusted sources.
 
i just unapproved 3 posts in this thread. let's focus on the core irc issue, please.

alasdair
 
why doesn't the OP set up his own IRC channel and have it as the unofficial BL channel, moderate it and then tell us how it goes?

it seems like it will be near impossible to moderate and not quite worth it just to have instant messaging...

otherwise, tinychat pretty much accomplishes everything proposed here IME.
 
why doesn't the OP set up his own IRC channel and have it as the unofficial BL channel, moderate it and then tell us how it goes?

As I've already stated, there were several unofficial channels that thrived for years and years after the official server was turned off, against everyone's wishes. After many, many years, they eventually withered away and died off because they were unofficial. Telling people that there was such a channel was challenging enough on its own; every now and then we'd make a thread in the lounge to try to get new people, but the mods wouldnt ever sticky them because it was unofficial, so they didn't want to give the appearance of officially supporting it, so the threads would go into the obscurity of page 2 rather quickly.

A webchat link on the board fixes this wonderfully.

it seems like it will be near impossible to moderate and not quite worth it just to have instant messaging...

otherwise, tinychat pretty much accomplishes everything proposed here IME.

It only seems that way because you've never used it. Even at its most difficult, running and moderating irc channels is no more difficult than moderating the forums here. Instant messaging and tinychat are for different purposes than irc. Tinychat requires a camera and a specific app, does it not? I dont think it offers any kind of channel management tools or resources either; TC is for entirely different things than an irc channel, and TC could still be used as well for those who want to download the app and be in a group video chat. Ditto for IM, used for different purposes that supplement each other rather than being mutually exclusive in some kind of way.

Seeing that all of the staff responding in here are lounge mods and regulars, i want to reiterate that an irc server is not meant to replace the lounge or make it obsolete, but to act as a supplement, and to engage members of the community who wouldn't participate otherwise, to give members another way to socialize and give and receive HR advice, and generally to make the community more inclusive, engaging, and welcoming.
 
it seems like it will be near impossible to moderate and not quite worth it just to have instant messaging...

otherwise, tinychat pretty much accomplishes everything proposed here IME.

Moderation on IRC is easy, you can have as many or few OPs as you want. You can even restrict who can send messages. TinyChat is awful and shares the same problems that Discord has (although Discord is worse because it datamines everything you send over it). At least with IRC you have various options for encryption and the choice of many chat clients. You can even use it in the shell if you're inclined to do so. The main issue is the lack of user friendly interface which is as simple as installing a simple modification to the forum. You let the less technical inclined come in via a web client hosted here and the rest of us connect with whatever software we want. He's pushing for an official channel for that reason most likely.

I do agree that starting one might be the best option and just seeing if it takes off. I only found this thread by coincidence (popped up in search results). I'd use a BL IRC channel constantly but if one isn't created soon I'll become bored with waiting and go ramble elsewhere. What servers do you guys like? These days I mostly hang out on Rizon but I still idle on quakenet too. Rizon would probably be the better choice of the two.
 
I've hosted a number of channels on Freenode.net. It has good support and it's relatively stable with regards to downtime.
 
the focus forums arent for socializing, thats what the social forums are for, literally their entire purpose. i get that people want to stay in their 'circle', with their group of like-minded people, but the focus forums arent for socializing, they're the focus of bluelight, the harm reduction forums of a harm reduction board; the social threads never should have been allowed in the first place. and irc channels are easy to moderate and run, there's nothing difficult about it. if it "seems harder to moderate" its because you've probably never used it before, but its pretty easy to learn and its no more difficult than moderating the forums here.

The focus forums were kept focussed by the lounge existing.

This changed at some point for some reason and I dont really know why, well I have made my own conclusion by doing some reading of past threads and various well meant decisions.


I am not in the frame of mind to discuss this issue but one day this will have to be discussed in public and with staff being open and honest.

As bluelight has changed direction a number of times, the finger pointed at the lounge regulars and that is not fair at all.

Irc was great fun. It was inhabited and run by bl staff and old schoolers.

If bl had its own chat run by bluelight there would be less unofficial and damaging shit like reddit turned out to be.

Think about it. Its worth a try.
 
If bl had its own chat run by bluelight there would be less unofficial and damaging shit like reddit turned out to be.

Think about it. Its worth a try.

I'm inclined to agree with this. But also because, since chat is ephemeral, some of the drama might actually bypass TL and/or not sit and fester there on the screen.
 
Does freenode have native vhost support yet or do you have to use your own BNC?
Yes it does. But it is not as reliable as one would hope, regardless of the server:

Copyright (c) 2014, 2016, 2017 M. Teufel Unlimited redistribution and modification of this document is allowed provided that the above copyright notice and this permission notice remains in tact.

If you are reading this, you probably asked for a (unaffiliated) cloak on freenode because you wanted to hide your IP or hostname. This text is here to tell you that cloaks and vHosts don't hide your IP very well. Cloaks on freenode show your (lack of) affiliation with a project or a group being hosted on freenode.

There are many reasons how a cloak can leak your IP:
Your IP will still show up when a freenode staffer does a /whois on you.
Your IP will still show up when you don't identify using SASL, and don't have the cloak when joining channels. Even if your client is configured to wait before joining, a user can still get your IP with /monitor.
Your IP will still show up when you use SASL/NickServ authentication, but the services (NickServ, SaslServ) are down or on another side of a splitted network.
Your IP will still show up when you click on a link or accept a DCC file transfer. If a normal user really wants to get your IP, it is still possible to use services or the IRCd to get your IP (not a bug).

How to prevent these leaks:

Use freenode's Tor hidden service or a VPN. If you just care about your private IP, but not about the IP of a VPS, you can also run a private bouncer to prevent the leaks. Both ways won't prevent you from clicking a link or accepting a DCC file transfer which will still leak your IP. If you still have questions on this, ask a staffer or a helper in #freenode. Feel free to send a private message or a memo to mt on freenode about any corrections on this gist.

https://gist.github.com/maxteufel/1e2cf7ada079c271bd3c

N.B. Richtext formatting doesn't work using the https connection on Firefox
 
Last edited:
So, any other questions or concerns before this discussion is considered finalised? So far the majority of posts against the idea have been "i think" types, without much substance to them, though they've all been addressed anyway.

Anybody got anything else? General questions about irc or anything at all?
 
the smods/admins discussed this. i wanted to give the forum staff some time to weigh in too. i'll wrap up that discussion over the next couple of days and post some thoughts.

alasdair
 
Top