The list of useful pharmaceuticals (substances that may give a really good feeling)

[Dreynar]

I don't consider SSRIs and SNRIs useful. And other drugs that you have to wate weaks for them to work and after which they don't produce any sufficient/extreme anti-depressant effects like those below.
Also I don't consider useful such drugs with very probable horrific side effects like Sabril (when you can literally go blind from it).


The List:

Benzos (e.g. Alprazolam)

Opiates (Oxycodone, Tramadol etc.)

Pregabalin/ Gabapentin

Ritalin/Adderall (mainly for work as speed. For me not very useful as an anti-depressant)

Bupropion

Tiagabine (GABA Reuptake inhibitor). I read posts from people that have really euphoric effects from it)

Baclofen

Propranolol (may really help with anxiety and without tolerance)

GHB







Russian Pharmaceuticals:

Bromantan (increases Dopamine, Seratonin, Noradrenaline and GABA. Probably the best drug.)

Semax

"In animals, Semax rapidly elevates the levels and expression of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and its signaling receptor TrkB in the hippocampus, and rapidly activates serotonergic and dopaminergic brain systems.In accordance, it has been found to produce antidepressant-like and anxiolytic-like effects,^]attenuate the behavioral effects of exposure to chronic stress, and potentiate the locomotor activity produced by D-amphetamine. As such, it has been suggested that Semax may be effective in the treatment of depression, as well as in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)."

Selank

Selank (Russian: Cеланк) is a nootropic, anxiolytic peptide based drug developed by the Institute of Molecular Genetics of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Selank is a heptapeptide with the sequence Thr-Lys-Pro-Arg-Pro-Gly-Pro. It is a synthetic analogue of a human tetrapeptide tuftsin.

In clinical trials, the drug has shown to provide a sustained nootropic and anxiolytic effect which is useful for the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder (GAD).Selank has an advantage over traditional anxiety treatments, such as benzodiazepines, as it has no sedating or negative cognitive side effects and no associated addiction or withdrawal problems.

Afobazol

Fabomotizole is an anxiolytic drug developed in the beginning of 2000s by the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences. The goal of researchers at that time was to create a selective anxiolytic agent that would not have the adverse effects of benzodiazepines. In the open studies, the drug appeared to be as effective for the treatment of generalised anxiety disorder as diazepam, while causing significantly fewer side effects.

The producers of the drug claim that it stabilizes and upregulates GABA and benzodizepame receptors, exhibits neuroprotective properties, and diminishes anxiety and tensions in the body. The drug is designed above all for people with asthenic personal traits such as emotianal lability, e.g. tendency to react emotionally to stressful situations.

Meldonium

Noopept

Phenibut


And many other greate drugs that are available on Russian store websites, which you can look up for youself.


Nootropics/Suplements:

Phosphaditilserine, Omega fats, DL-Phenylalanin, Tyrosin, L-Theanin, 5-HTP + Green Tea Extract, ALCAR, L-Carnitine.

L-Tryptophan, B-Complex, Magnesium, Zinc Picolinate, Brahmi, Lecithin, Maca, Guarana, Lemon Balm, Velerian Root, Skullcap, Baicalin, Chamomile etc.




Did I missed something? Does anyone know some other good stuff, I'm interested mainly in the western pharmaceuticals ?

 

[doxylamine]

I quite like the MAO inhibitor Moclobemide and Tranylcypromine even better. The latter I take everyday for depression and anxiety.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Okay well you probably won't like what I have to say, but it's the way to meet your goal of sustained happiness. Just wondering, are you a recovering addict?

Quite basically, for a framework of how psychiatric drugs are supposed to work, they will not by themselves make one high. Period. That is called recreational drug use/drug abuse.

The feeling you are looking for is not sustainable through psychiatric drugs. Psychiatric drugs can reveal a sort of path out of the fog that you can take if you're willing to put in the work. That is it. No psychiatric drug taken by itself can make us happy forever without increasing doses steadily until it becomes physically and mentally hazardous to take. So relying on stimulants, benzos, and/or opioids for the full feeling of loving living, is a dead end.

Gabapentin is prescribed off-label a lot. It apparently can help curb addictive urges, but isn't an antidepressant. So that's a no-go.

Bupropion is a legitimate antidepressant, apparently good for bipolar, as it doesn't set off mania as much as SSRIs/SNRIs. I'll admit it worked well for me for over three years. Then stopped.

Tiagabine isn't an antidepressant. I thought it's an anti-convulsant/mood-stabilizer.

Baclofen isn't a medication, to my knowledge

GHB isn't given for depression. Again, drugs that make you high are drugs that aren't working how they're supposed to.

Propanolol is good for the physical symptoms of anxiety, if I remember right.

All those other random supplements aren't medications, and aren't well-tested enough to stand in for them.

If you choose to buy some random RC from a Russian website, or otherwise self-medicate with the sole goal of being high each time you take whatever random substance you buy, you will regret it so very deeply, than if you had listened to this and decided to give the qualified professional a fighting chance, at least months. You'll be like every other addict that thought they could enhance their life with drug abuse and not realize that they've slipped down the hill to addiction until they need it to get out of bed.

It takes the drug, the therapy, and the socialization. The latter two are clearly more difficult than swallowing a pill. You have to find a therapist you gel with, and trust them with your information and their recommendations of how to confront what bars you from feeling decently happy, without leaving out anything, including drug abuse, embarrassing as it may be. You have to make efforts to get out and be with people, too, and in a sense learn from them how to find happiness through socializing.

You might have a long way to go, my friend, until you realize that when you see the doctor, your goal is to relate how you feel. You can put in a statement about how such-and-such "worked" or whatever, but beyond that you're tampering with the process. You have to get out of the "get happy quick" mind state and realize that all actually good things take time and effort. This isn't like going to McDonald's.

The "good stuff" in your particular case, apparently, hasn't been found and/or recognized yet.

 

[Dreynar]

Okay well you probably won't like what I have to say, but it's the way to meet your goal of sustained happiness. Just wondering, are you a recovering addict?

Quite basically, for a framework of how psychiatric drugs are supposed to work, they will not by themselves make one high. Period. That is called recreational drug use/drug abuse.

The feeling you are looking for is not sustainable through psychiatric drugs. Psychiatric drugs can reveal a sort of path out of the fog that you can take if you're willing to put in the work. That is it. No psychiatric drug taken by itself can make us happy forever without increasing doses steadily until it becomes physically and mentally hazardous to take. So relying on stimulants, benzos, and/or opioids for the full feeling of loving living, is a dead end.

Gabapentin is prescribed off-label a lot. It apparently can help curb addictive urges, but isn't an antidepressant. So that's a no-go.

Bupropion is a legitimate antidepressant, apparently good for bipolar, as it doesn't set off mania as much as SSRIs/SNRIs. I'll admit it worked well for me for over three years. Then stopped.

Tiagabine isn't an antidepressant. I thought it's an anti-convulsant/mood-stabilizer.

Baclofen isn't a medication, to my knowledge

GHB isn't given for depression. Again, drugs that make you high are drugs that aren't working how they're supposed to.

Propanolol is good for the physical symptoms of anxiety, if I remember right.

All those other random supplements aren't medications, and aren't well-tested enough to stand in for them.

If you choose to buy some random RC from a Russian website, or otherwise self-medicate with the sole goal of being high each time you take whatever random substance you buy, you will regret it so very deeply, than if you had listened to this and decided to give the qualified professional a fighting chance, at least months. You'll be like every other addict that thought they could enhance their life with drug abuse and not realize that they've slipped down the hill to addiction until they need it to get out of bed.

It takes the drug, the therapy, and the socialization. The latter two are clearly more difficult than swallowing a pill. You have to find a therapist you gel with, and trust them with your information and their recommendations of how to confront what bars you from feeling decently happy, without leaving out anything, including drug abuse, embarrassing as it may be. You have to make efforts to get out and be with people, too, and in a sense learn from them how to find happiness through socializing.

You might have a long way to go, my friend, until you realize that when you see the doctor, your goal is to relate how you feel. You can put in a statement about how such-and-such "worked" or whatever, but beyond that you're tampering with the process. You have to get out of the "get happy quick" mind state and realize that all actually good things take time and effort. This isn't like going to McDonald's.

The "good stuff" in your particular case, apparently, hasn't been found and/or recognized yet.

I think you're right.


So I was never an addict, but since I was a child I was suffering from anxiety, social anxiety, ADD, later with some depression. Then I developed a chronic Akathisia (which later apeared to be from nutrient deficiency). I constanly felt extreme inner tension, thrust and stress in my body, that was independent from my thoughts. I couldn't relax even for moment. I lived in this horror for about 5 years. Then about a month ago I corrected nutrient deficiency and the inner tension went away. I can look now on "the bright side of life" and have moments of complete freedom. I think a therapie now could do the trick.
But since about 2 years I'm interested in drugs. In 2016 I was experimentig with psychodelics and stimulants. And since the beginning of 2017 I'm experimenting with anti-depressants and nootropics. The best feeling I've ever had was at 30mg of Ritalin in the first hour, before I move to anxiety and paranoia for the rest 3-4 hours. This feeling of love and compation that I also feel on benzos and sort of on opiods, sticked with me. And it's hard to accept that I can not keep this feeling, at least a part of it, permamently. When I know it's so close and I know that DRIs have a potential of producing that feeling, very possibly that without complete tolerance it's hard to just move to the therapie knowing this. But life is always showing me that this not the way. Eaither the drugs doesn't work or those that have potential to give constant realief (like Tiagabine) are unavailable to me. I'm sort of a spiritual person and I wanted to explore this topic, because in the past I asked: "why we can't just be happy on drugs? There's plenty of those anti-depressants, so why everybody does not take it?" Now I know why. (Because main anti-depressants are shit bacause they target the list important neurotransmiters. The most important are Dopamine, Opiodergic System and GABA).


I didn't tried those Russian drugs yet. I ordered them and they should come in some time. I have pretty big hopes for Bromantan and Semax, and I'm very intrested in Afabazol.


From anti-depressants/anti-anxiety I tried:

Tranylcypromine (Parnate)
Mirtrazapine
Gunfacine
Pregabaline
Benzos (Alprazolam - my favorite drug)
Oxy
Bupropion

ADHD meds

And all those nootropics that I listed.

I want to try:

Tiagabine - after I read this post: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ne-and-why-don-t-we-have-more-GAT1-inhibitors
Baclofen
Propranolol
(maybe GHB)





I would love to see a therapist but there's a sucha big problem in getting one. I got some numbers from my psychiatrist but every institution says that I have to wate months to even talk to them, before I even going to see a psychotherapist.

So I wate.

 

[AloeOne]

Er, you say you had a major nutrient deficiency that you only corrected a month ago? Have you gotten any blood work done lately? Check for iron levels, vitamin d levels and that kind of thing? Its perfectly reasonable to want to feel ok in daily life... but if you have underlying nutritional issues or poor mental/physical health habits then turning to drugs is not going to be effective. I had very low levels of vitamin D, and no good dietary sources of zinc... I could take drugs every day all the time and still feel like shit. Supplementing vitamin D3, zinc citrate and omega 3s really changed my life.

Have a look at examine.com, I get the feeling you might like looking around there. I know what its like to want drugs to be the answer, but drugs can fundamentally never substitute for proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. Trust me, if drugs could totally solve all problems permanently there would be more success stories...

Waiting lists for therapy suck, but you can read up on cognitive behavioral therapy and practice emotional awareness in the meantime.

The feeling you are looking for is not sustainable through psychiatric drugs. Psychiatric drugs can reveal a sort of path out of the fog that you can take if you're willing to put in the work. That is it. No psychiatric drug taken by itself can make us happy forever without increasing doses steadily until it becomes physically and mentally hazardous to take. So relying on stimulants, benzos, and/or opioids for the full feeling of loving living, is a dead end.

^ This is the truth.

 

[Vastness]

I 100% agree with the sentiment that substances are not the answer, although I am myself guilty of self-medicating unresolved mental health issues with nootropics, and I have tried a lot of the Russian drugs you mentioned, except Meldonium and Fabomotizole (which do look interesting, I may have to get some next time I feel the urge to order a bunch of new noots :D), so I thought I would chime in.

For me Bromantane was quite disappointing, I wouldn't get your hopes up too much with this one, although it does work for some people it did very very little for me, even maybe had a slightly depressogenic effect although this could have been some kind of nocebo. Noopept I have used on and off and while it is definitely anxiolytic, it has pretty much always given me brain fog, which has bothered me to varying degrees depending on what's going on in my life at the time, also it does sometimes make me quite angry. This effect is something that it took me a while to notice because it's not like an obvious rage but usually I am very patient with people, and on Noopept I am generally not. One more thing is that chronic dosing really dampened my libido.

Semax and Selank are 2 of the more interesting substances I think, although Selank does give me brain fog or at least some kind of lethargy in high enough doses. With Semax especially however the main thing I noticed was just an increased resilience to life stresses, an increased willingness to work hard, exercise, and just generally live actively and do what needs doing. The interesting thing about these substances however, Semax especially, is that I didn't really "feel" anything - whatever is going on appears to alter your brain chemistry at a deep enough level that even though you are altered (for the better I would say) it just feels normal, like an opposite version of the benzo-esque "feeling sober but not". In fact the first time I took a course of these things I did think that perhaps there had been some change but couldn't really put my finger on it, and I did initially think they were a bit of a waste of money. It was only a few months later when I was able to look back at my life that I could see the effect they'd had. That said, I believe that after a few more tries I have noticed a declining effectiveness after a few weeks to months of using almost every day, but this could be due to the fact that I generally used pretty large doses - again, mostly in an effort to "feel" something, which may not be entirely necessary to get the benefits. I should note also that I used the N-Acetyl---Amidate versions of these substances created by a certain nootropics vendor to be longer lasting, although I would expect the originals to be similar.

Phenibut I maintain is a very useful tool if used responsibly, the most obvious anxiolytic I've tried and probably the only one on your list of nootropics to give a consistently "good feeling", as you say, but it's probably not a nootropic. It is a GABAergic somewhat like benzos are so although I would still say generally it is a lot safer, you are still flirting with dependency and addiction risks, as well as downregulated GABA receptors and damaging your baseline level of psychological wellbeing if you are not particularly careful and very strict with your use.

 

[Dreynar]

Er, you say you had a major nutrient deficiency that you only corrected a month ago? Have you gotten any blood work done lately? Check for iron levels, vitamin d levels and that kind of thing? Its perfectly reasonable to want to feel ok in daily life... but if you have underlying nutritional issues or poor mental/physical health habits then turning to drugs is not going to be effective. I had very low levels of vitamin D, and no good dietary sources of zinc... I could take drugs every day all the time and still feel like shit. Supplementing vitamin D3, zinc citrate and omega 3s really changed my life.

Have a look at examine.com, I get the feeling you might like looking around there. I know what its like to want drugs to be the answer, but drugs can fundamentally never substitute for proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. Trust me, if drugs could totally solve all problems permanently there would be more success stories...

Waiting lists for therapy suck, but you can read up on cognitive behavioral therapy and practice emotional awareness in the meantime.

^ This is the truth.

Yes. 3-4 moths ago I did blood and urine tests and they said everything was fine. But I still felt this inner tension.
For those 5 years I was a vegetarian. I din't connected my problem with diet bacause before that I always felt tense and stressed out so I just thought that with time my sickness became worst. I suplemented with plant powder containing wheat grass, alfa-alfa and like 15 other plants that have "all of the possibile nutrients", also with bee pollen, B-Complex (Jarrow - containing large amounts of B12, Folat and P5P), Zinc Picolinat (44mg a day), Magnesium Citrat (400mg), vitamin D and Omega Fats (although I din't felt anything from Omega 3 Fish Oil, I felt better only from Evening Primrose Omega 6 Oil and from Omega 3-6-9 oils).
And almost everyone on the internet said that veganism was good. But I still had Akathisia.
A month ago I started to eat meat again and the inner tension and stress in the body ware gone. After I first little meal I felt way better and on the 4th day when I ate huge amount of chicken I felt that my body was wierdly relaxed (although mind wasn't completely)


Thanks for the links. I use them.




Vastness: Do you think that Semax plus cognitive behavioral therapie would be a good idea?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Never heard of selank-2. Selank, yes, but selank-2? whats this one about?

I'd be curious to try semax, and possibly cerebrolysin.
The russkis seem to have quite a number of most unusual nootropics, and be rather closer to the cutting edge of development and at least of nootropics being accepted in medical use.

Quite admirable IMO.

Another nootropic I've been curious about, to the extent of when one other project that is likely to use propionylpiperazine as an intermediate, to have a crack at taking some of the intermediate and forming the corresponding benzamide, aka sunifiram, DM-235. I kinda forgot about that actually, this thread just reminded me. Found a place that is (not going to source it here) apparently thinking of offering sunifiram, one of the AMPAkines. Quite potent by weight too. And they are getting to the point where they are going to offer small free samples. I think I might try that before I go further, so as to see if it is worth synthesis of before comitting reagents towards, and piperazine that can be assigned to other piperazine-ring containing derivatives.

Also, does anybody know if the (n)-butyramido homolog of sunifiram is active as an AMPAkine? That is to say 1-butyramido-4-benzoylpiperazine rather than 1-propionyl-4-benzoylpiperazine? or is the propionyl chain critical to the compound being active as an AMPAr positive allosteric modulator? and if sunifiram is one of the low-impact AMPAkines, or the high-impact (and whilst more effective, demanding much greater care in its use if so). Does sunifiram/DM-235 act by prolonging channel ion conductance, or is it of the type that causes the channel to open more frequently, for more or less the same unit conductance of ion flux per channel per opening event upon stimulation by glutamate/aspartate?

And one other question-with the AMPAkines, there are two isoforms of the receptor types, flip- and flop-. IIRC PEPAP (or is it PEPA) always forget which. I do mean the glutamatergic potentiator not the opioid with the similar acronym, that is flip vs flop selective. Or it might have been IDRA-21. What sort of effects on channel conductance time and flux amplitude would otherwise equipotent flip-selective vs flop-selective AMPA PAMs result in, and what phenotypical differences are there between AMPAkines that target FLIP-isoforms of AMPARs and FLOP-isoform AMPARs?

Thats one thing I've never been able to find out. Sounds like it might pair well with memantine, AMPAkines in general, so as to assist in warding off potential for excitotoxicity, less of a threat with low-impact AMPAkines but potentially dangerous in excess are the high-impact ones like tulrampator.

I do have pre-existing memory and cognitive issues left behind after something awful that I had no way to escape from at the time at all. And I'd very much like to give an AMPAkine a try, especially in combination with memantine, since its limited (mostly) to clamping down on excessive, overload levels of glutamatergic excitatory activity and ought thus to help in limiting potential for excitotoxicity with the higher impact AMPAkines.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Oh and baclofen (beta-chlorophenylGABA) is a medicine, its prescribed as a muscle relaxant, often in MS. Both via the oral route and via intrathecal pump. Although it has most perculiar pharmacodynamics. Some people respond to baclofen per os, and some do not but do so to intrathecally delivered baclofen, whilst some who do not respond to intrathecal baclofen do so to it orally, which is one of the weirdest effects I have ever heard of. I've never tried it intraspinally and do not plan to one bit. But I have in the past had a baclofen script, and found myself a nonresponder by mouth, at ANY dose, even multiple grams (dosage starts as 10mg tablets orally) and it just did not act other than to make me somewhat nauseous and a little dizzy.

(I need a muscle relaxer and a strong one, after surgery on a badly damaged knee left me with nerve damage, which resulted in a permanent, severe and very, very very painful constant contraction of my calf muscle on that side of that leg, tried baclofen and at any dose at all it helped not one scrap. So instead was put on zanaflex-tizanidine, an alpha2 adrenoreceptor agonist like clonidine but a much more powerful myorelaxer, that does indeed help a lot. But with baclofen, quite simply, next to nothing happened even at megadoses, whilst I've seen others take just a couple of 10mg tablets and end up barely able to move or raise their head, slurring their speech to the point of near unintelligability such was the extent of induced muscular hypotonia, Odd stuff, and nowt to get high on, at most it makes somebody feel dirty-headed and drunken. Shite stuff IMO. No idea what it'd do intrathecally to me personally but have no desire to find out. Or for that matter the practical means to so do.

Either way, no need, since the tizanidine/zanaflex was and is a godsend. And like the similar drug clonidine I also take, it too helps stop my overloading (by this I mean as in autie overloading)

For pharmaceutical agents which induce excellent good feelings, at least in the opioid category, the best ones I can speak of, are 3,6-dipropionylmorphine (which likely has some 6-monopropionylmorphine present from when it will have undergone acylation, since it is not entirely selective when conventional acylation with an anhydride or acid halide is performed. There is, depending on the precise conditions it occurs under, a varying proportion of dipropionylmorphine, 6-monopropionylmorphine and 3-monopropionylmorphine.) the product at least is quite an amazing opioid of the MOR-agonist flavour. With a vastly increased length of action compared to either unaltered morphia, or to diacetylmorphine. 6-monoacetoxydihydromorphine is quite astonishing in the rush it produces too. And hopefully soon, I shall also get to try hydromorphone and desomorphine (no, not the crude and horrific 'krokodil' flesheating monstrosity, but cleanly reduced (won't go into synthesis details) alpha-chloromorphide via catalytic methods. Will give no more detail than that owing to the BLUA.

I did get as far as coming into possession of some alpha-chloromorphide, but I never attempted to reduce it to desomorphine. I got curious, and bioassayed the chloromorphide, which was most surprising in that it was not opioid-like whatsoever, rather, it was a pure psychostimulant in effects but of a singularly odd, different, unique kind. Not like the stimulating effect of poppy tea with its thebaine content, not like monoamine releasers like amphetamines nor like DARIs such as cocaine or methyl/ethylphenidate, 4-fluorophenmetrazine or any others. Only thing I can compare it to is what old, old kratom, stored in the air would be like if it had 95% of its opioid activity of more, removed and the stimulatory effects only left behind. And also the alpha2 adrenergic antagonist yohimbine-like, although mild, effects of some kratom alkaloids not there. So in a class of its own more or less as far as I've ever experienced. DOR agonist maybe?

Did seem to have convulsant potential IF I'd have pushed the trial dosing stages higher, but at the first sign of clonic twitching in the extremities, hands, fingers, ankles, lower legs sometimes, the dosing was terminated. And by this time I had no more alpha-chloromorphide. If ever I get hold of more than desomorphine will HAVE to be assayed, for its near legendary rush. I'd love to try the 6-monopropionyl ester of dihydromorphine too.

Weird stuff, it was, alpha-CM. Not bad, just fucking weird as shit. I'd be interested in trying alpha-bromomorphide and alpha-iodomorphide also to see if there are differences in their respective activities.

As for dipropionylmorphine, its one of my favourite opioids, for it is very, very long acting, one shot lasts nearly all day, an intense, intense INTENSE rush on IV, hits like a tank, euphoric as fucking christ. Lasts ages, very rapidly acting indeed, highly euphoric and at least as much more potent than diamorphine as diamorphine is than morphine itself.

One of my very favourite of all opioids, along with a decodeinized broad-spectrum isolate of opium poppy, refined down to something crystalline and injectable, and having been subjected to propionylation of the phenolic fractions. Loooooong acting, fair bit of histamine release, presumably from small traces of codeine due to it not being 100% gone, but one astonishing kick.

Kind of the omnopon/pantopon version of dipropionylmorphine.

 

[Dreynar]

Limpet_Chicken Maybe try Pregabaline + Memantine + D-Phenylalanine (1500mg).
Having Ibuprofen and Oxycodone / Tradomadol always close to you.