• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!
  • MDMA Moderators:

Which antidepressants don't lessen/cancel out the effects of MDMA?

isaaccain

isaaccain

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
285
I'm giving up and have decided I'd better start taking antidepressants just to see if they help. I don't want an SSRI because I know they definitely do stop MDMA working. I'm not sure about mirtazipine but I know it makes you hungry and makes you gain weight. Those are the only antidepressants I know. I'm also taking methylphenidate for ADHD and I'm going to try to get my psychiatrist to change me to amphetamine/dexamphetamine/lisdexamphetamine because the methylphenidate comedown is hideous and definitely doesn't help with depression and for some reason the effects only last an hour an a half (40mg orally) and half way through school I get really depressed and tired because of the comedown. My point is that it should be compatible with amphetamine or methylphenidate or both. I know all you people out there aren't my psychiatrist and it shouldn't be your job to tell me what antidepressant to take but I can't exactly ask the doctor if it impacts MDMA use so I came here.
 
I'd like to know too. As a newbie, the best advice I can give you is maybe try some 5-htp? They're great for pre and post-loading. I'm taking them right now to stabilize my mood and I gotta say it does take the edge off. I prevented a downswing from happening this week by taking 5-htp 3 times a day. Depression is rooted in lack of serotonin, 5-htp fills you with serotonin. It's not as good as a real antidepressant but the benefit is noticeable.
 
MDMA compatibility is an odd priority when finding a therapy for depression. Depression that you believe is due to "comedowns" from methylphenidate, which you hope to alleviate with straight amphetamine. Hopefully you realize comedowns from amphetamines would be worse.

Also, usually you have to get high to have a "comedown." Or at least that's how the word is usually used. I'm not saying you don't experience something when your methylphenidate wears off, but amphet. comedowns (when they happen) are usually nasty.

Going on an antidepressant to help with side effects of your ADHD meds is not a good idea. Those things are serious meds with serious side effects, and mirtazipine has a huge and weird binding profile. If you think your depressions are related to the methylphenidate, ask about changing dose or forms--I think there are at least three different "durations" available, of what is a short-acting med.

There are a few other ADHD meds out there, like bupropion, atomoxetine, and clonidine. All of them are marketed more or less as antidepressants too. Clonidine is the most unusual but has the best purely anecdotal reviews.

I had similar feelings back in the day, but turns out I was just diabetic, so keep that in mind. Stims temporarily raise blood sugar, and take away appetite; so careful skipping breakfast.
 
Scrofula said:
Depression that you believe is due to "comedowns" from methylphenidate, which you hope to alleviate with straight amphetamine. Hopefully you realize comedowns from amphetamines would be worse.

Also, usually you have to get high to have a "comedown." Or at least that's how the word is usually used. I'm not saying you don't experience something when your methylphenidate wears off, but amphet. comedowns (when they happen) are usually nasty.
Click to expand...

Call it 'after effects' then, but the 'after effects' of methylphenidate at therapeutic doses have been worse than that of an actual MDMA comedown after a 24 hour binge. I'm pretty sure that isn't normal which is why I want to be changed to amphetamine. I think the drug just affects me strangely. It wears off extremely quickly, too, after about an hour, even orally, and when I was on extended release it wore off after three, so I'm just not built for it I don't think.

Scrofula said:
There are a few other ADHD meds out there, like bupropion, atomoxetine, and clonidine. All of them are marketed more or less as antidepressants too.
Click to expand...

Clonidine was the first drug I discussed with my psychiatrist for ADHD. My problem with drugs like those is that they don't wear off until you stop taking them entirely. I can't come home and have it be out of my system, and maybe it's just a stereotype or an assumption but I feel like alpha agonists, beta blockers, SSRIs, etc. fundamentally affect you as a person, as in dulling emotions and so on, which is my hangup about antidepressants too which is why I decided to stop taking sertraline. I know I'm not explaining my problem with these drugs very well but I mean like if I would have to stop taking a drug and have had several days pass before the effects of it have worn off like with sertraline then I don't want it. It's like having something permanently changed in your head and that doesn't interest me. That probably sounded proper stupid like I don't know what these drugs do but I just can't find a way of explaining myself.

Anyway I've heard mirtazipine is perfectly safe with MDMA and doesn't lessen the effects of LSD so I think I'd be happy with that as long as it didn't make me hungry (I've heard that's a common side effect).
 
Some people would say that the comedown from MDMA is much less severe than that of amphetamines. I sure would, even though I generally don't have a hard time with meth.

I mean, MDMA does have methamphetamine right there in the name, but its main effects are through an entirely different serotonin transmitter system.

Meanwhile, methylphenidate blocks dopamine reuptake. Amphetamine does too, after it's forced a bunch to be released. Those two do work on the same transmitter system. And if you think your depressed mood is due to a med that isn't working, quit the med, don't add new ones. (But if you do, try to take them as prescribed.)

Clonidine doesn't have to build up in your system, or take a month to become effective, as far as I know (takes a little time). It is not a monoamine reuptake inhibitor. The advantage is it's NOT stimulating, and doesn't involve dopamine and the same addiction risk. And it would wash out of you quickly. It's meant to treat blood pressure; I think ADHD and depression are off-label most everywhere.

Beta blockers are given for anxiety, to help with physical sensations like a fast pulse, wouldn't work for you with amph use.

I'm on sertraline again, and know exactly what you mean by dulled emotions. But your stated priorities sound more like you want to be able to take MDMA on the regular, along with LSD and rec. use of prescription amphetamine. It's true that mirtazapine has low or no affinity for the serotonin transporter protein, which MDMA needs to work. But it would interfere with all the receptors that the serotonin MDMA releases would target. It also has tight antagonism at the 2A serotonin receptor, which is where LSD and a lot of psychedelics function (including MDMA). So it would definitely interfere with those drugs. It also has the same effect on alpha receptors as clonidine. And super-potent histamine effects, so it's very drowsy.

Really, you kind of need to decide which is a priority to you, and right now you're siding with recreation across the board. Not that that's wrong, or anything, you just can't treat a mental illness with drugs and not expect problems with recr drugs.
 
Last edited:
I used to think that MDMA must have one of the worst comedowns of any drug being that Shulgin and Co. recommended a 1-3 month rest period between doses. I thought the comedown must be at least similar in severity to amphetamine because it's an amphetamine based drug, but I got thinking about it and thought exactly what you said, they affect different receptors. I've quit methylphenidate now and I'm moving to dexedrine tomorrow, I'll just have to see how it goes. If the after effects are just as bad my psychiatrist told me I could try guanfacine, which I thought was a cough and cold medicine but it must just sound like one that I glanced at on a pharmacy shelf or something because I don't see why he'd get the two confused as a psychiatric doctor. If both methylphenidate and amphetamine work on the same receptors then I can probably expect side effects of the same difficulty, so I might end up swapping again.

I have a completely irrelevant question about the pharmacokinetics (dynamics?) of the two drugs and how it might relate to the transmitters/hormones they effect. I found it quite interesting to learn that methylphenidate (although it is metabolised by a different enzyme than amphetamine) has salts dextromethylphenidate and levomethylphenidate. I know that there must be hundreds of drugs that have that alkaloid, but I'd honestly never heard of anything with the prefix 'levo' before learning about these two drugs, so here's my question. Is it the prefix that comes before the base drug (dextro, levo, oxy, ethyl, things like that) that determines which receptors and transmitters the drug affects? Is this why, despite being an amphetamine, MDMA affects different receptors than pure amphetamine or dexedrine? I wish I knew more about pharmacology than I do but I only really know about the pharmacology of opiates due to my past obsessions.

Anyway now that I've found out they affect the same receptors I figure dexedrine will probably have a similar comedown and I might not even keep taking any stimulants at all and I can just switch to something like guanfacine, or god forbid, start CBT. If I end up stopping with stimulants all together for school I might not even have to bother about an antidepressant. Another difficulty I had with methylphenidate though was that it wore off in about an hour and a half, so if I didn't redose between lessons and at lunch I'd have the comedown hit me in school and a lot of the time just ended up having to go home with 'fever'. I haven't gotten around to doing PE so far this year because I haven't been in but I get physically weak during the comedown to the point where I wouldn't be able to do it at all, but I've heard dexedrine lasts longer so if it is better in that respect it might be worth taking even if the after effects are just as bad. It might just turn out that I enjoy getting high off whatever med I end up on much more than I enjoy doing well in school or not suffering a comedown on a daily basis, and if that's true then I probably will just keep up the amphetamine. Methylphenidate definitely wasn't a pleasant experience, though.

If mirtazipine interferes with LSD I probably won't be taking it, not in the near future anyway. I've used it as a sleeping tablet before, but at the time I wasn't as concerned with psychedelics as I am now.

Anyway your advice was well appreciated
 
Dextro- and levo- just refer to the "handedness" of a molecule; they are mirror images of the same thing. Usually only one will be active in an organism, or have the effect you're looking for. Most pharmaceuticals are mixtures.

Prefixes and suffixes always mean chemistry, not receptors. The chemistry is known, the mechanism usually uncertain.

MDMA is called an amphetamine because of the molecule's structure. Take methamphetamine, stick a O-CH2-O in front, and you get MDMA. There's a dozen different ways it could have been named, though, and no way to know for sure what it will do to a person, if anything, just from the name.

When a methamphetamine high wears off and you're still wired and unable to sleep, some people will get very anxious, maybe paranoid, usually you hear a lot of sound distortions from sleep loss, you might hallucinate. That's what they mean by comedown. Hopefully you don't have panic attacks after taking methylphenidate. If you do, then I think amphetamine is def. something to avoid.

Shulgin et al. recommend waiting 1-3 months between MDMA uses because of neurotoxic risks. They'd recommend the same thing for meth.

Guaifenesin is the expectorant you're thinking of. Guanfacine is an alpha agonist, more selective than clonidine.

Depression and weakness on schedule sounds an awful lot like diabetes. Make sure you look in to that. Just stabilizing your sugar might help with attention too (if that's the problem).
 
If methylphenidate gives such a bad comedown I dont know why MDMA is such a priority anyways....

MDMA has way worse comedowns than methylphenidate or adderall. So many LTC stories of 1 night of MDMA use and I never hear about long term issues from 1 off addy or ritalin.

On top of that a lot of people have gotten LTCs from mixing ADHD stimulants with MDMA....
 
Have you considered that your depression is being caused due to methylphenidate use, and won't clear up until you stop?
 
You should stay away from MDMA if you have depressive tendencies. It honestly makes it so much worse. Yeah sure you'll be on cloud 9 for 4-6 hours but then you'll be at rock bottom for the next week or so to recover. Drop the ritalin for a bit and maybe replace it with some herbal meds. Rhodiola Rosea works remarkably well for me, it feels similar to adderall without the shitty comedown, you just start feeling sleepy instead! Bad thing is you have to cycle its use otherwise it stops working as well.
 
For what it;s worth I've been on Moclobemide 1,200 mg/day for years. I deliberately chose it due to it's near zero impact on my recreational drug use. MDMA - no issues, speed - no difference, LSD - no difference. I am bipolar and a big of a bit of a drug sponge (natural tolerance) so estimating increased or decreased effect from a particular drug depends more upon my brain (chemistry) than the substance. But as a general comment I've had no issues at all combining moclobemide with any recreational drug (oh yeah, use marijuana daily), there was a supposed death linked to someone who ingested moclobemide (not prescribed) and MDMA, but the opiates the medics gave hime were likely the cause of his death, so I might be cautious using opiates with moclobemide, but doubtful it'd be a problem. It's a reversible MAOI, short half life, don't even need more than a day washout fro it if changing medications, very safe.
 
I didnt read everything and just skimmed but damn guys lol.

First, Ive specifically tailored any medications my doctor puts me on with the caveat that I can still use MDMA. Its one of the greatest experiences in life if you have the right setting and person/people. Dont think thats weird at all because Id never take any meds that would remove my ability to use MDMA infrequently.

Two, he said he has depression or implied symptoms AND that he takes methylphenidate. Not that he wasnt depressed before the methylphenidate and then started experiencing symptoms after he was put on it. The medication is definitely not necessarily the cause although it could obviously exacerbate.

Three, everyone is different. Ive heard PLENTY of anecdotal reports that people get significantly worse comedowns from amphetamines and amphetamine based medication as compared to MDMA - this could be explained by individual biology or, more likely, the fact that ADHD medication is used daily while MDMA should only be used a handful of times per year. This isnt all that uncommon.

Also, since I saw it mentioned, rhodiola rosea has a lot of beneficial effects for most people but I got the worst derealization/depersonalization experience from it that Ive ever had in my life so just a word of caution if you notice anything abnormal.


OP - as far as medication goes your options are going to be limited but may try something like Wellbutrin.

As far as the ADHD medication goes, my girlfriend gets bad comedowns as well from Adderall but taking NAC/magnesium/ALA once the comedown starts completely eradicates it for her. Probably worth a shot.

It may also be worth outlining your diet, any supplements, exercise, lifestyle, etc since things like depression can be mitigated or eradicated many times by addressing those lifestyle factors.
 
I'd expect pretty much any AD is going to impact on MDMA since they are almost all effecting serotonin. It's only a few atypical ADs like Wellbutrin - it may still have some impact since norepinephrine and dopamine are also released by MDMA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top