Chronic Fatigue

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Swim15

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
1,863
There are some really knowledgeable guys on here so I thought I'd pick your brains.

I've delt with adrenal fatigue type symptoms for some time, at least a couple years. Hard to say when it started because (I'm fairly young) at the end of high school I was in and out of doctors and endo's for low test levels (in the 280's and I was symptomatic).

Come freshman year of college I had tried rounds of clomid therapy among other things to bring levels back up but they would never stay so at 19 I opted for self administered HRT after being refused by an endocrinologist solely because of my age.

When test levels were low I was very fatigued, sleeping 10+ hours a day, etc. HRT changed my life an enormous amount but honestly can't recall if there was any of that fatigue sticking around and how much.

I think a slight amount of fatigue came back and tried treating with things like DHEA.

Fast forward and I'm going to say it really got bad when I had mono a couple years ago which knocked me out for about 6 weeks. Been battling a lot of fatigue and CNS fatigue since.

I started taking pregenolone (50-75mg, high dose I know) probably 8 months ago which has made an enormous difference and took me from 10 cups of coffee a day and adderall putting me to sleep to 1-3 cups of coffee a day and adderall actually being effective as a mild stimulant.

I think a large part was due to cortisol imbalance since pregenolone improved how I felt by probably 50-60%.

I just recently added colloidal silver in case any of this still is mono related and was thinking about some higher dose d-ribose and beta glucan.

Any thoughts, experiences, or other recommendations?



TLDR:
Massive fatigue before HRT
HRT improved some
Symptoms have been stayed in some capacity over last 2-4 years
Might be related to mono about 2.5 years ago
Pregenolone improved significantly
Added colloidal silver this week
Considering beta glucan and d-ribose
Anything else?
 
What about the rest of your bioactive hormone blood work-ups ? Have you checked recently for Free cortisol, 24 hour urinary cortisol,Salivatory cortisol levels (a.m and p.m) dexamethasone suppresion test. Calcium levels, TSH, T4, T3, Reverse T3, Estradiol, Prgenenolone, Free & Total Testosterone. Iron levels, DHEA-S
Also get a complete CBC, Estradiol, Liver enzyme levels, C- reactive protein for inflamation levels.
Your symptoms may or may not have been mitigated via Testosterone to DHT lervels. No sense taking supps that you don't know for sure is the proper targeting area. Waste of time and money. DO the Blood work and get back to me !
 
Basically the only thing I haven't checked is cortisol levels.

I know what hormones, CBC, etc look like from regular tests although that still doesn't tell you much given that I feel best by far with estrogen levels well out of range, for example.

I take T3 or T4 pretty much year around so TSH will be nill.

Probably time to check C-reactive protein.

Say that cortisol levels are high or low. What's the treatment? Not all that familiar
 
I'm away at the moment and without laptop, but the first thing I'd consider is immune function/GI health. So the glucans approach, glutamine, various bacteria etc would certainly be on my list of things to try. I'll give it some more detailed thought when I get a chance.
 
Swim15 said:
Basically the only thing I haven't checked is cortisol levels.

I know what hormones, CBC, etc look like from regular tests although that still doesn't tell you much given that I feel best by far with estrogen levels well out of range, for example.

I take T3 or T4 pretty much year around so TSH will be nill.

Probably time to check C-reactive protein.

Say that cortisol levels are high or low. What's the treatment? Not all that familiar
Click to expand...

Hypercortisolemia > ie Cushings, disease, syndrome, Pseudo-cushings: Check for Pituitary adenoma or micro-adenoma via MRI scan. Also adnomas are present on top of the adrenal apex on top of the kidney , so CT or MRI or the adrenals/kidney. If identified, surgery is the best outcome. No nightmares, pituitary resection is very simple via the nasal passage. almost can be an outpatient procedure lol.

Hypocortisolemia> Addison's , pseudo > adrenal exhaustion from certain meds, chronic stress, chronic stimulating androgens, Long-term Thyroid therapy : Trial of Hydrocortisone or other cortisone analogues. Recommend strongly supplement to carefully supplement as well with L-tyrosine, NAC and licorice .As you may be aware pregnenolone is essential for adrenal health. You may consider low-dose Prozac in combo with your oral or better yet, compounded transdermal pregnenolone. Prozac(fluoxetine) increases allopregnenolone levels in the brain.

Good Luck Champ.
 
Start taking adrenal glandular supplements. Genestra is one of the best brands.

I had chronic fatigue syndrome as well and for me to get rid of it I just had to have my Mercury Dental fillings taken out, and after that do a few chelation therapy sessions.

I'm pretty much cured now
 
Thanks for the thoughts guys, appreciate them.

For reference, these are some things I've done
-Already take a number of immune boosters
-Taken about 30g glutamine a day for the last two years
-Used prescription strength probiotics before (VSL3) with no noticeable changes
-Tried adrenal grandulars with no results

Other supps include chorella and spirulina, bee pollen for allergies (more effective than allergy shots for me believe it or not), vitamin C, zinc, metformin, and numerous other vitamins, minerals, omegas, etc.

Really interests to see if coloidial silver helps. Have used DMSO before with good results but had to discontinue because of body odor.

SSRIs are one thing I'll never touch but appreciate the recommendation.

If this is happens to be a continuation of the Epstein Barr virus then I'm hoping the silver will help primarily.
 
I'm just going to randomly list ideas as they spring to mind. You can google I'm sure.

Lectin avoidance
Th1/2 dominance
L-reuteri
Every selfhacked immune and or fatigue guide (that should last you a century) ;)
 
Swim15 said:
Thanks for the thoughts guys, appreciate them.

For reference, these are some things I've done
-Already take a number of immune boosters
-Taken about 30g glutamine a day for the last two years
-Used prescription strength probiotics before (VSL3) with no noticeable changes
-Tried adrenal grandulars with no results

Other supps include chorella and spirulina, bee pollen for allergies (more effective than allergy shots for me believe it or not), vitamin C, zinc, metformin, and numerous other vitamins, minerals, omegas, etc.

Really interests to see if coloidial silver helps. Have used DMSO before with good results but had to discontinue because of body odor.

SSRIs are one thing I'll never touch but appreciate the recommendation.

If this is happens to be a continuation of the Epstein Barr virus then I'm hoping the silver will help primarily
Click to expand...
How many mercury dental fillings do you have??
 
CFC said:
I'm just going to randomly list ideas as they spring to mind. You can google I'm sure.

Lectin avoidance
Th1/2 dominance
L-reuteri
Every selfhacked immune and or fatigue guide (that should last you a century) ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for those, I'll do some more research.

Gonna go ahead and do heavy metal testing for shits and then go from there.
 
Not sure how comfortable you are reading studies and trying 'out there' ideas from stuff which is really on the cutting edge of current research, but here's something for you to read and digest anyway, which may be relevant for your issues.

First up, a primer on the PD-1 receptor.

Next, an article discussing the effect of blocking PD-1 to boost adaptive immunity. You should be able to get it free via http://sci-hub.bz/ or http://gen.lib.rus.ec/

Follow that up with another giving a bit of background and documenting in vivo restoration of immunity.

Then a little wiki on nivolumab, a more established PD-1 blocker ('checkpoint inhibitor'). Bear in mind the possible side-effects.

After that, I'd just take a random potted Google scholar search if your interest is piqued.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because of: (1) the potentially deleterious effect large doses of AAS (that you use) can have on adaptive immunity, and (2) you mentioned lasting effects from EBV, and I know this is being investigated in that regard, as well as other HSVs, HIV and related difficult to permanently eliminate viruses.

Bear in mind, however, that limiting PD-1 may modulate (or attenuate) humoral immunity. However on the plus side, PD-1 inhibits the mTOR pathway (eg protein synthesis), so even partially attenuating its effect may make playing around with blockers quite appealing.
 
We have pretty similar scenarios going on it would seem

Have you ever been on steroids while you were growing up? As in corticosteroids or any ant-inflammatory type ?
 
Linesinthesky said:
We have pretty similar scenarios going on it would seem

Have you ever been on steroids while you were growing up? As in corticosteroids or any ant-inflammatory type ?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of and still refuse to take them
 
The more I learn the more I'm shifting my beliefs about adrenal fatigue. I don't think the adrenal gland itself ever gets tired or under-productive. It's that the pituitary and hypothalamus get down-regulated (for lack of a better word) and stop stimulating adequate adrenal activity.

I've read many cases of "adrenal fatigue" being remedied with bio-identical hormone therapy, especially with hormones higher on the cascade like pregnenolone and DHEA. The hormones don't just affect the organ system they also seem to have a re-setting effect on the neurology that governs hormone regulation itself.

Interesting you mention mono because CFS seems to happen after infections. In a small percentage it's after a major emotional trauma or bodily injury. With mono it would be related to EBV, which in 20% remains active but sub-clinical. Have you ever thought of getting an EBV test? Most people have it, but it could still be worthwhile to see your levels. If you test EBV+ and in high numbers then you could get your CD4 count tested. If that's low then it means your immune system is run down and that can contribute to CFS. You could look into anti-viral therapy or just take supplements that scale back viral infections and that alone may improve your natural hormone capacity. But you wouldn't want to do such a protocol without first knowing if it's even necessary.

Although, it seems like you're feeling pretty good now so maybe the EBV is suppressed and/or your hormone plan is boosting your body so it's irrelevant.

Have you considered switching to bio-identical hormones? They have a better track record so far.
 
Thanks for the thoughts on this. I had EBV tested when I had mono and it was off the charts of course. There's one other time I had what I believe was a flare up towards the end of a prep where my body was obviously already under physical stress. Never got tested then but it was the same mono symptoms all over again for a few weeks, just not as bad.

Been thinking about getting it checked again so I may do that and heavy metals just for shits, got an appointment with my doc next week.

I have used DHEA and pregenolone pretty extensively, pregenolone is the only thing that seems to help so that's what I'm using now. Have also been using the colloidal silver though so the EBV may not show as much. May actually skip that now that I think about it and just stick with low doses of the silver
 
EBV is probably your barometer for health. Like a lot of chronic infections, it hides when you're strong and comes out when you're in a weaker state. The hormones are probably putting you into the strong category. I guess if you ever get mono symptoms you'll know that something in your lifestyle needs tweaking, like less stress.

I unfortunately don't know a huge amount about treating EBV. I read a book once about it by a well known herbalist and he had some protocols he used to scale it back with a good level of success... but I don't have any personal experience treating it clinically. If you want his name I can post it?
 
Yeah man for sure. I'm gonna do some more reading but extra resources never hurt
 
"Herbal Antivirals" by Stephen Harod Buhner. It's one of the better books on the subject, but like I said I don't have a lot of personal experience treating EBV specifically. The reason why I trust his book is that he mentions methods for other infections that I have worked with successfully, and our experiences match. His research methodology is also pretty iron clad, so if you want proof he provides a lot of it.

Besides all that, he has successfully treated encephalitis and meningitis using herbs where modern drugs failed, which is pretty remarkable.

Good luck!

EDIT: Here's his website which covers many different infections but maybe you can search it for more about EBV.
 
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