Tbol + Test E First Cycle - Need Quick Advice Please

mdmable

mdmable

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
109
Hello Bluelighters.

Stats:

age: 28
height: 1.72
weight: 69kg
training exp: 5 times a week for 11 years
I will say my diet is pretty good but will probably need to up the cals while on cycle ofc.
BF: i dont know. Look at my pictures down below

https://imgur.com/a/CLzuO


---


After training for a long time natural i have decided i want to do my first cycle.

I will probably start already tomorrow (monday) or tuesday.

I would like your opinion about my plan as it seems like you have a different view on doses/pct than any other AAS forum and i'm getting a little confused.



wk 1-4 - Turinabol (Tbol) 40mg ED
wk 1-12 Test-E 400mg (200mg twise a week)

wk 14-17 - PCT Clomid (unsure whats the best way to dose or if i should at all)

I will take Milk thistile and NAC to protect my liver becuase of the orals.


You will probably ask why i dont only do test e for my first cycle?
Well the thing is that i already bought tbol and wanted to do only that for the first cycle because of how "mild" it is.
But later i decided i want to do test and i dont want to have the tbol just laying here as i dont know if im going to do another cycle.


What confuses me is that at every other AAS forum they say you NEED to have an AI,HCG and what not during cycle.
And the PCT list is also different from everywhere i look.

I only have clomid and thats the only thing i could get for PCT. should i even use it? I figured after 12 weeks it doesnt hurt to kickstart my natural production?


What do you think about my test e dosing ? too high? Everywhere else they say you should use 500mg a week.
Thats why i decided i want to go a little lower and do 400mg (my test bottle is 250mg/l so with 400mg a week will make me a 12 week cycle)

I see that you recommend a smaller dose than this. Please enlighten me.

I have been reading and commenting on this brilliant forum since 2012 (mainly the MDMA forum)
And i know the knowledge at this forum in way better than others and that's why i will greatly take your advice before i start


Regards
MDMABLE
 
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Nice base you've built naturally. High single digits I would say. You've got good genetics to look aesthetic, and will look amazing taking it to this level.

Ya, I mean the arguments against adding tbol would essentially be:

(1) If you get a side-effect, you won't know which drug caused it. Hence the greater rule of only one new compound at a time.

(2) Cycles tend to get more complicated over time, so essentially you're missing a step. A similar argument works for starting on a lower dose of a compound.

But I get how tempting is. And it sucks waiting and waiting for test e to kick in. But if you had the patience and discipline to build that physique over the years, you can handle a month of waiting.

The other guys will answer the stiff about HCG, PCT and such. I'm on week 6 of my first cycle and aside from a couple days of irrational panic, I have not used an AI. I was nervous too about this and the no PCT thing admittedly also makes me nervous, but it's not like one day you will wake up with full blown gyno or estro stuff. It comes on gradually and you can take the AI at first alerts.

Make a log on here of your cycle. It will be a good read.
 
Hi There and welcome to PED..

You may note we are a harm reduction forum, as opposed to other more popular boards on the net.. We are concerned about your health rather than emptying your bank account..
We don't have products for sale, neither do we endorse others that do..
Our philosophy is to use a minimum effective dose for maximal therapeutic effect, without initiating unnecessary side effects..

This Excellent thread written by CFC explains the principle of dosing, ie starting low and increasing slightly over your cycle, also why it might be prudent to NOT add an oral at the beginning:

Why You Should Not Frontload

Regarding PCT, we believe there is plenty of research to show protecting the testes ON-CYCLE from damage might be a much better option than trying to initiate HPTA restart end of cycle after damage has been done.. This can be mitigated with the use of taurine and royal jelly supplementation, see below..

Taurine

Royal Jelly

There is plenty research to show your HPTA would restart just fine anyway, LH and FSH doesn't appear to be the problem, it's sertoli cells that receive the signal from LH/FSH that don't seem to work optimally once damaged from R.O.S on-cycle, this damage seems to be compounded after each cycle, therefore it seems prudent to protect them, rather than address the hypothalamus with clomiphene, when that's not where the problem lies..

If you don't use tbol you shouldnt need liver protection, and probably wouldn't anyway.. Heres a bit about milk thistle:

While it will help protect your liver, the active component in Milk Thistle effectively reduces nuclear androgen receptor levels and down-regulates several androgen-regulated genes primarily by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR, and can also inhibit nuclear localisation of the androgen receptor.
Milk Thistle will also have an inhibitory effect on the insulin-like growth factor receptor-mediated signaling pathway. All in all, there seems to be a reasonable expectation that this stuff is anti-anabolic..
A much better alternative is Prunella Vulgaris, which has been shown to protect liver cells and activate the Aryl hydrocarbon receptor, thereby allowing it to work as an anti-oestrogen as well. As long as you're going to take oral steroids, you may as well take a liver protector that isn't going to hinder your gains.
 
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Looks perfect to me man, that's basically what I did as well as all my friends for their first runs except I used superdrol for the kickstart.

As far as doses that's about exactly what I would go with and limits risk for crazy sides. As far as HCG it is going to be the most effective drug out there for maintaining sensitivity to LH but IMO it's kind of a wash in the long run. I started with it in my first run and ended up dropping it.

For liver protection I wouldn't use anything if you're just doing the 40mg of tbol since that stuff won't do much anyways. If you want to use something or are doing harsh oral stacks in the future, TUDCA or, preferably, UDCA is the only thing you need and is FDA approved to prevent and reverse liver damage (UDCA).

For an AI, I'd generally not take drugs you don't need so I'd have it on hand but personally wouldn't use it if you don't need it. Itchy nips will be your first sign.

For the clomid, everyone does 4 week PCTs based on the preveelance of prohormones back in the day. I would run it 6-8 weeks and decrease the frequency if you only have, say, 30 doses on hand because the half life is so long and do 25mg eod for 8 weeks.

Should be an excellent run, one of my best friends did the exact same thing for his run and put on a solid 25lbs. Good pick on the tbol as well
 
mdmable said:
You will probably ask why i dont only do test e for my first cycle?
Well the thing is that i already bought tbol and wanted to do only that for the first cycle because of how "mild" it is.
But later i decided i want to do test and i dont want to have the tbol just laying here as i dont know if im going to do another cycle.
Click to expand...

That's not a reason to use the tbol. And tbf, this is incredibly unlikely to be your only ever cycle. Save it and use it another time.

So as above, drop the Tbol kickstart, and run test at 200 or 250mg/wk rather than 400. If you can't gain on several multiples of your natty test, you're doing it wrong. I've had literally hundreds of newbs gain anything from 15-40lbs on the same or less.

PCT is optional but (as pointed out above) pretty pointless, especially if you take care with ROS on cycle.

What's your diet going to be?
 
Swim15 said:
If you want to use something or are doing harsh oral stacks in the future, TUDCA or, preferably, UDCA is the only thing you need and is FDA approved to prevent and reverse liver damage (UDCA)
Click to expand...

UDCA isn't entirely benign, TUDCA's likely safer since it's water soluble, but in most cases neither would really be needed over and above something like NAC.
 
CFC said:
UDCA isn't entirely benign, TUDCA's likely safer since it's water soluble, but in most cases neither would really be needed over and above something like NAC.
Click to expand...

Possibly but haven't seen any literature stating otherwise either. NAC would likely do just fine, I honestly just like to be using the best of the best for whatever I'm attempting to mitigate haha
 
Hey again and thank you for all of the replies. Appreciated!

I have decided i will stick to my original plan though.
Will stay alert of any sides.

My diet will be clean food as always.
I eat oatmeal, eggs , chicken and rice/pasta everyday.
Right now i'm around 3000 kcal.
tbh im more into using the mirror than counting kcals.
Over the years the body changes and i need to adjust to that.


With that being said i also want to make the most of the cycle and eat more than i normally do.
I will gradually up my kcals as the weeks go by.

I have added Taurine and Royal Jelly to my supplements.

I will start the cycle tomorrow.

I will post a log here on how it goes and with pictures from time to time to see progress :)

Thanks again
 
Good stuff dude and with your training and nutrition history, you will get a lot more out of this than most. 3000cal for being as lean as you are is and only 69kg is pretty crazy, gotta love a good metabolism.

Think you'll like the kickstart and the test will keep the gains rolling when you drop the tbol.

Keep us updated!
 
Definitely eat more and keep track of any changes you make. Good luck.
 
Hey guys.

So today it's one week since I started.
Will have my 3rd injection tomorrow.

I started with 20mg tbol the first few days just to see my reaction to it.
I'm up to 40mg a day now.

The last few days I have definitely started to feel some effects.

Increased libido, feeling more motivated and energized. The pump is also seem to get fuller and better day by day.

I'm looking forward to the next few weeks and i will do my best to keep you updated on how it goes.

Have a good one?

Mdmable
 
Sounding good man! 40-60 is a good range for tbol so glad to see you're tolerating it well. Things only get better from here!
 
Having been 0 test for the last two weeks because of contest prep, the 150mg of sust I pinned last night I can definitely feel today lmao. I feel like this guy on his first cycle all over again with the libido increase
 
Hey!

So I just finished my tbol which means I'm 4 weeks in.

I'm up 6+ kg already and that is with minimal fat gains, So I'm very surprised and happy with the results so far.

Haven't experienced any side effects so far besides maybe a little acne which have showed up the last week.

Most noticeable difference is definitely the strength and pump during training.

I will upload some pics of the progress so far in about two weeks.

Take care ?

Mdmable
 
That's solid, sounds like you actually got tbol which is a great drug. Always liked kicking things off with dry orals and actually have some on the way as well
 
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