Misc (Safe) Legal Highs anyone?

[~kira~]

I was on FB earlier and saw an oldddd post from maybe 7 years ago, I remember making the post. It was one of the best and first times I had taken any type of pill. It was the best feeling ever. For some reason my favorite thing back then was listening to upbeat music in the dark wearing a snuggie (not kidding!) and basically nodding in and out. Feeling warm and fuzzy. It was a pleasant experience. I never took pills accessibly,only very moderate. Now in todays time I am trying to be as healthy as I can at the moment. I've been clean from pills for a good 3 or 4 years. I was wondering if there is anything out there that is safe (in moderation) but can give you those nodding out phases. So far I have tried Diphenhydramine (Benadryl 25mg) and that makes me pretty tired and gives me some cool vivid dreams, and melatonin (5mg). But I actually use that to help me fall asleep. I know neither is good for your body in high doses. I tend to stay on the very low side of things. Is there anything else out there that is safe in low doses to achieve this type of effect?

Sorry if this is in the wrong section! I debated for a few mins to myself wondering which section this would be ok in. lol

 

[Scrofula]

Well, if you had a safe, legal drug that could give you heroin nods, you'd be God Ruler of Earth. At least in terms of wealth. No one would ever have to slink around in alleys for downers anymore. Or however they do it. I guess stims folk do most of the late night slinking.

Somebody here's gonna say something like the gray-market kratom, or imported Kava, depending on where you live. Although Kava isn't especially healthy (it can do some work on your liver).

Have you tried just listening to upbeat music in the dark, rocking back and forth in your snugsie? Maybe some quality cocoa. Chocolate does contain alkaloids besides caffeine, including theobromine, which is known to be psychoactive in a (I think) happy-sedative way. Go beyond the chalky crap in pouches and do the full Mesoamerican original treatment, with that huge ornate frother thing and chili peppers (I made it once, with a whisk not that ornate thing, and it is its own experience).

There's the hoohah about theanine, found in green tea. You can buy it as a supplement, but really I think you need the whole package. It's supposed to work with the caffeine to give you a sense of "calm alertness," but that's according to the manufacturer. I know, that with my one time experience with imported fancy-pants expensive green tea, it glowed green, smelled like broccoli, and put me right to sleep in a happy way, so don't always listen to labels (especially on supplements. In fact, never listen to those).

Someone might mention GABA, but that's pretty much a waste of money, as none of it gets into your brain. There are prescription things out there, like my old friend gabapentin, which can absolutely create a feeling like that in some people. Emphasis on some. But again, that's a script (with a shit-ton of off-label uses, so not that hard to acquire).

Other than that, I can't help you. Mostly came by to see what others thought. I might think of a few more in the shower later, but I doubt it.

 

[Speed King]

That Theanine is for real. The effects were pronounced for me at 200 mg. Follow safe suggested guidelines for the amino acid. Your mileage may vary.

I like Kava a lot. I have had the root and powdered form, in quarter pound amounts.

Powdered seems easiest to work with, but if stuck with root, I have taken small bits and put them under my tongue like dip and have received nice effects.

If you can handle your stuff, just go with the flow and don't use every day. For me it made things pleasant due to the relaxation.

Anything mentioned in this thread is no joke. They are all capable of helping you black out or get too loose, etc. Caution is advised.

On that note, I will try a Kava and
L-Theanine combo. For science.

 

[~kira~]

Well, if you had a safe, legal drug that could give you heroin nods, you'd be God Ruler of Earth. At least in terms of wealth. No one would ever have to slink around in alleys for downers anymore. Or however they do it. I guess stims folk do most of the late night slinking.

Somebody here's gonna say something like the gray-market kratom, or imported Kava, depending on where you live. Although Kava isn't especially healthy (it can do some work on your liver).

Have you tried just listening to upbeat music in the dark, rocking back and forth in your snugsie? Maybe some quality cocoa. Chocolate does contain alkaloids besides caffeine, including theobromine, which is known to be psychoactive in a (I think) happy-sedative way. Go beyond the chalky crap in pouches and do the full Mesoamerican original treatment, with that huge ornate frother thing and chili peppers (I made it once, with a whisk not that ornate thing, and it is its own experience).

There's the hoohah about theanine, found in green tea. You can buy it as a supplement, but really I think you need the whole package. It's supposed to work with the caffeine to give you a sense of "calm alertness," but that's according to the manufacturer. I know, that with my one time experience with imported fancy-pants expensive green tea, it glowed green, smelled like broccoli, and put me right to sleep in a happy way, so don't always listen to labels (especially on supplements. In fact, never listen to those).

Someone might mention GABA, but that's pretty much a waste of money, as none of it gets into your brain. There are prescription things out there, like my old friend gabapentin, which can absolutely create a feeling like that in some people. Emphasis on some. But again, that's a script (with a shit-ton of off-label uses, so not that hard to acquire).

Other than that, I can't help you. Mostly came by to see what others thought. I might think of a few more in the shower later, but I doubt it.

That Theanine is for real. The effects were pronounced for me at 200 mg. Follow safe suggested guidelines for the amino acid. Your mileage may vary.

I like Kava a lot. I have had the root and powdered form, in quarter pound amounts.

Powdered seems easiest to work with, but if stuck with root, I have taken small bits and put them under my tongue like dip and have received nice effects.

If you can handle your stuff, just go with the flow and don't use every day. For me it made things pleasant due to the relaxation.

Anything mentioned in this thread is no joke. They are all capable of helping you black out or get too loose, etc. Caution is advised.

On that note, I will try a Kava and
L-Theanine combo. For science.

Wow, thanks for the replies! I would have replied last night but I took a bit more melatonin than I thought... Interesting night to say the least lol.

As for GABA and Kava. I have tried Gaba, and yeah it was a waste. Nothing happened with me. I have wanted to try Kava and Kratom, but the effects on the body made me want to skip it (but who am I to talk, I used to take syrup every once in awhile.)

I agree with you both with the theanine. I drink a nightly calm decaf green tea and that stuff used to put me in a nice slumber. Although I couldn't find it in supplement form but I did find decaf black tea which is said to have about 20-65mg of theanine in each serving of 9 milliliters (I believe) So I just drank that to see if anything happens, as well a very small dose of my melatonin. I feel like tonight will be a great night. (Hopefully) already really tired so who knows lol.

Have you guys, or anyone else ever tried st. johns worts? I have seen that, and heard it can give you a calming effect and make you very focused. But I don't know this for sure. Will be back on here later to post about the melatonin and theanine combo.

 

[Speed King]

I haven't had the St John's Wort in a while, but it may cause issues if you take certain medications.

I must admit, the theanine has stayed effective at constant 200mg dose. Taking a higher mg amount should be more noticeable.

If your tea is cutting it, great. If you want to supplement, I would start w/200mg.

Just because regular GABA doesn't hit you in a way you can feel, doesn't mean it doesn't still work in your pns.

A smart drug called Picamillion is GABA and a B vitamin combined.

I have not had it yet, but, it crosses the BBB. I am told it is real relaxing.

Thanks for the reminder to get more Kava.

Kava has a learning curve, but I have always enjoyed it. Subjectively very relaxing.

 

[~kira~]

I haven't had the St John's Wort in a while, but it may cause issues if you take certain medications.

I must admit, the theanine has stayed effective at constant 200mg dose. Taking a higher mg amount should be more noticeable.

If your tea is cutting it, great. If you want to supplement, I would start w/200mg.

Just because regular GABA doesn't hit you in a way you can feel, doesn't mean it doesn't still work in your pns.

A smart drug called Picamillion is GABA and a B vitamin combined.

I have not had it yet, but, it crosses the BBB. I am told it is real relaxing.

Thanks for the reminder to get more Kava.

Kava has a learning curve, but I have always enjoyed it. Subjectively very relaxing.

I luckily do not take medications. But I did hear it can cause some muscle twitches if taken to much.

I think i'm around 150-200mg of theanine now. I have to admit, it is amazing! That plus the small amount of melatonin (3mg) has put me in almost like a state of bliss..lol. I'm so relaxed, and calm. I really like it. The green tea is good, but the black tea has more theanine in it. Even if you get decaf, it still has about the same. I might have to check walmart out for the supplement though. I've already used 8 tea bags and i had bought a box of 48 tonight. lol.

I had tried GABA by itself, and didn't like it(powder kind) and then I tried it in this thing called "sleep walker" a few years ago, and man was that interesting. I took half of the recommended dose and I felt weird. Very hard to explain, but very awesome. It was a proprietary blend of a ton of stuff, and I wasn't sure how much of it was a certain ingredient and such,,So I stopped taking it.

And no problem! Where do you even buy it at? I saw it online, but figured it was probably fake or something

OH..I had tried this thing a long time ago called a mellow brownie. It was sold at a smoke shop, my dad bought it and gave it to me. Very mellow effects for sure!

 

[Speed King]

We can't source anything. Utfse:

 

[Scrofula]

There's research that one compound in St. John's wort inhibits dopamine and serotonin reuptake, along with other monoamines. But then, so does methamphetamne.

And damn, there are more than a few interactions to worry about. I've eaten it before, noticed nothing. And it's me, so I of course triple dosed many times. Lots of studies to say it's no better than placebo for depression, unless your German. Lots of interactions, plus my airtight seal of disapproval, mean it's probably not worth it.

And you know, I tend to sneer at anything OTC promoted for "calming" effects, since those things tend to be scheduled (if the Vitamin Shoppe really had cute little teas that had a calming effect, eventually people would be doing it IV, and you'd never see it again), and you mention "sleep walker" with GABA. But then my mother got this stuff called "Dream Water" from who knows where. It supposedly contains GABA, melatonin, and 5-HTP, none of which have been shown to make you sleepy. But mixing into a sprite, makes for a nice night.

Happening during a meth break might have had something to do with it. TBH, when I tried GABA the first time decades ago (and the last time, except mixed in this stuff), my triple dose caused flushing and hyperventilation. It was not pleasant. But I bet if you took a bit less, it might feel like a buzz.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Kratom is the best out there. And if u just use it once and a while there is nothing to worry about. Its addictive though and hard not to use all the time

 

[~kira~]

There's research that one compound in St. John's wort inhibits dopamine and serotonin reuptake, along with other monoamines. But then, so does methamphetamne.

And damn, there are more than a few interactions to worry about. I've eaten it before, noticed nothing. And it's me, so I of course triple dosed many times. Lots of studies to say it's no better than placebo for depression, unless your German. Lots of interactions, plus my airtight seal of disapproval, mean it's probably not worth it.

And you know, I tend to sneer at anything OTC promoted for "calming" effects, since those things tend to be scheduled (if the Vitamin Shoppe really had cute little teas that had a calming effect, eventually people would be doing it IV, and you'd never see it again), and you mention "sleep walker" with GABA. But then my mother got this stuff called "Dream Water" from who knows where. It supposedly contains GABA, melatonin, and 5-HTP, none of which have been shown to make you sleepy. But mixing into a sprite, makes for a nice night.

Happening during a meth break might have had something to do with it. TBH, when I tried GABA the first time decades ago (and the last time, except mixed in this stuff), my triple dose caused flushing and hyperventilation. It was not pleasant. But I bet if you took a bit less, it might feel like a buzz.

Hmm, interesting. I've heard some mixed things about St Johns Wort. I have never tried it. Probably won't.
The dream walker that I tried might have been called sleep walker. But it had the same compounds in it as the sleep water your mom tried. I feel like places that sell this (online) are extremely sketchy. Mine had a propriety mixture of around 3200mg's of things. I remember GABA, Phenta...something, Caffeine, and I think melatonin were among some of the things in it. I did buy a bag of gaba online and tried it once, I didn't notice anything when trying it, although I went very low dose at first just to see how my body would react to it.

Kratom is the best out there. And if u just use it once and a while there is nothing to worry about. Its addictive though and hard not to use all the time

Hmm ok. I might have to try this sometime..
The key is moderation...which is hard as hell to accomplish lol.


**EDIT**
I have found a nice mixture of melatonin and L-Theanine. I use anywhere between 5mg-8mg melatonin and anywhere between 50-200mg (max) of L-Theanine. Now..I did try this at low doses and work my way up. The max amounts of both of these cause EXTREME drowsiness, and almost like a zombie state. I usually will listen to music and sit down and do some work (sometimes go through trading cards like the nerd I am ) But when it starts to hit me, I literally stop and feel like I can't even pick a card up..lol. I then stumble to the bed and put my headphones on and drift off while listening to techno music. I usually try and play games on my phone while listening to music and then I usually just end up closing my eyes and relaxing for an hour or so until passing out. For me, it's an amazing feeling. The next day, sucks however. I would only try this when you have the next day to yourself and can stay around the house. I'm doing research on this combo, everyday use of this is probably not safe. As I think the melatonin messes with your bp a bit. But, melatonin is something our body makes a lot of, so further searching is in my future for this combo

 

[LucidSDreamr]

wow 5 mg of melatonin is huge. i usually only take 0.15 mg and that gets me to sleep, crazy dreams and then i wake up at 5 am and cant go back to sleep. I just took 1 mg though tonight because the lsd is still keeping me awake and i have to get to sleep.

They do make it in 5 mg pills, so I guess I'm the one thats abnormal being overly sensitive to melatonin

 

[~kira~]

wow 5 mg of melatonin is huge. i usually only take 0.15 mg and that gets me to sleep, crazy dreams and then i wake up at 5 am and cant go back to sleep. I just took 1 mg though tonight because the lsd is still keeping me awake and i have to get to sleep.

They do make it in 5 mg pills, so I guess I'm the one thats abnormal being overly sensitive to melatonin

I know.. lol I do have trouble sleeping so maybe that's why I have to take that much. I didn't know they sold melatonin in that low of a dose. I think it might be better to be overly sensitive to it though.

My mistake, 8mg is NOT the max dose that I took. It was 5mg. I thought the melatonin gummies I have were in 5mg increments (usually on the 2nd gummie I eat half of it. The gummies are actually 2.5mg. I think on most occasions it is probably about 3-4mg at the most I take. But you are spot on with the dreams. Vivid, crazy and almost life like dreams when you start to take a few mg's of melatonin lol.

You might be in for a nice sleep here soon if you usually only take .15mg of melatonin. Hopefully you have some nice dreams and a great night of sleep!

 

[Ozle]

What pills were you taking? From your description it sounds like it was some kind of opioid, but how strong that opioid was is going to determine what (if any) legal highs out there can give you a similar feeling. There's no point, e.g. suggesting something with effects similar to codeine, if you're comparing it with Oxy.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Kratom is the best out there.

^this.

And marijuana, depending on your jurisdiction.

 

[~kira~]

What pills were you taking? From your description it sounds like it was some kind of opioid, but how strong that opioid was is going to determine what (if any) legal highs out there can give you a similar feeling. There's no point, e.g. suggesting something with effects similar to codeine, if you're comparing it with Oxy.

Well, I was. I used to take Hydrocodone, Morphine, Vicodin, Perc's, and eventually I tried Oxy a few times. The Oxy is what hooked me to the feeling of fuzzyness and such. I didn;t do them a lot, and I only took safe doses. But the last time I used Oxy I had tried 40mg (after not using them for years) and got very nauseous and then I felt normal. I think the "effect" burnt out on my body. I have not found anything to mimic the fuzzy itchy feeling, but the nod effect has been achieved by black tea (decaf) and melatonin mixed.

^this.

And marijuana, depending on your jurisdiction.

I love marijuana, but I only like edibles, which aren't available to me anymore ;(

 

[Ozle]

You took 40mg after being clean for years? I’m not surprised you got nauseus...I bet you were itching to high hell too, I’m amazed you even managed to stay awake. You started way too high - try taking a much lower dose, similar to the doses you took when you first started.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If you have had problems control your substance use in the past kratom is probably best avoided. The dependency with it is relatively minor compared to other opioids, but it is still really shitty and, other than the fact it is legal, can totally rule ones like any other habit forming substance.

My question is, are you looking for a recreational kinda high or something for more special occassions? I’d look into entheogens if you’re okay with only using once in a while. But there aren’t many safe and legal substances that can be used recreationally on a daily basis without many issues other than cannabis.

I think the more important question is what substances the OP has had issues with in the past? Or addictive/compulsive type behaviors? Like, what is it that you are working on in terms of improving your health? If you’re struggled with a type of substance in the past it’s best to avoid similar substance for recreational use (e.g. if you’ve had issues with alcohol avoid gabaergic stuff like phenibut; if you’ve struggled with opioids, avoid kratom or other opioids like substances).

I’d strongly recommend putting your efforts into learning new healthy skills. Learn how to practice mindfulness based meditation, learn xigong/tai chi or a martial art, learn how to make pottery or paint, learn how to compose music or play an instrument, etc. in other words, drugs are fun but if you put your efforts into seriously learning how to use drugs at the cost of other healthier pursuits it is unlikely to end well.

And you will always be able to trip balls once in a while if you put your time into healthier activities. I’d strongly suggest broadening your horizons outside drug use and then just taking a trip to Central America to enjoy some ayahuasca or take a trip to the Netherlands and enjoy some legal shrooms. Save the drug experiences for something really special.

Do you have medical/mental health concerns that lead you to want to explore recreational drug use as self medication? That is totally legitimate in my book, it’s just something you need to go about very carefully, especially if you’ve struggled with drug related issues in the past.

I fell into the regular kratom use thing, which isn’t so bad but it’s still a PITA (primarily just because it is getting expensive). But it’s easy to keep from using other drugs. The only stuff I feel like I can really use safely is limited to occasional benzo use (but I’m not willing to put myself at risk buying them on the black market, so I don’t really use them often), occasional cannabis (I enjoy small doses at the end of the day sometimes before bed) and especially stuff like mescaline and ketamine.

Perhaps you can look into a ketamine treatment OP? Especially if you’ve struggled with depression or other mental health issues and just need to scratch the drug itch, you might really benefit from it.

Mescaline is my favorite though. Felonious cactophagy 4 life

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I'm really surprised no one closed this by now

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I'm really surprised no one closed this by now

It's borderline imo, but there has been some valuable HR advice.

I second everything TPD said above. Kratom is amazing for pain relief, but the addiction and WD make it not worth using recreationally.

I also agree with speed king. Traditionally prepared kava root powder is wonderful if you just want something to change your headspace, and it isn't physically addictive. Kava is great stuff

 

[Burnt Offerings]

It's strange, I've never really experienced WD from kratom. I mean, it makes sense that people WOULD experience WD from it...but I've used it fairly heavily for months at a time and I've never really faced any consequences from that upon cessation of use.

For someone who enjoys opiates I'd say the main risk of using kratom is that it's like Diet Opiates...and it might make you get a craving for Opiates (original recipe)