Mental Health Drugs, Spirituality & Western medicine

[Invegis]

Hello, I am writing to you all a short part of my story, I'll try to make it as short as possible and leave only the relevant parts in; Thank you for reading

Ever since my first experience (19 years old) on LSD I am convinced that I am meant to be a shaman/mystic whatever you want to call it, someone who deals in all things spiritual.

At age 21 I was taking LSD and my visual hallucinations were diagnosed as psychosis, I was put on antipsychotics and interned against my will in a rehab center.
At age 24 I smoked weed and from the symptoms of weed smoking, some paranoia, some auditive hallucinations (you know like the sound of music sounding better) I was put on antipsychotics again
At age 28 I was given some fake LSD (I don't know how it's called but it's not genuine LSD-25) and went into a a toxic psychosis, I was put on antipsychotics and sent to rehab again against my will.
At age 30 I was smoking weed and was so afraid to be interned again that I went into a panic attack that...got me interned. Once more antipsychotics.

So now I'm 31, it's been 10 long years of suffering, of antipsychotics, of feeling chemically lobotomised, robotised, zombified, call it what you will, you know what I'm talking about and I am about to take a big step in my life, I have already talked about it with my family and told them to accept me as I was, that I used weed not for recreational purposes but for spiritual ones, this is truly what I believe, that my will had to be respected.

Now my question about western medicine, what does it really know about psychosis? From what I've learned, not a whole lot, it's just an agglomeration of symptoms which are all treated through major tranquilizers (antipsychotics) but I mean, if someone is shaking and you hit him with a hammer on the head, of course the shaking is going to stop, right?

I am about to start smoking weed again tomorrow, I know weed never caused me no harm, not in the way of mental illness, the symptoms do not persist after the effects have run their course, as soon as the high comes down, the "symptoms" or as I like to call them "spiritual experiences" vanish slowly.

So I am asking you guys, what do you think western medicine really knows about Spirituality, drugs and mental illness. Is a psychosis basically the same thing as what we commonly call a "trip"? Is this a psychosis for them? Because I mean, If you take LSD for instance, it's quite clear that you're going to hallucinate, and hallucinations are a form of psychosis if I understood it correctly.

Moreover I wanted to share with you all my joy for my rebirth, finally after ten years of suffering in unspeakable ways (I don't develop because I want to keep the post short) I am finally accepted in my family as a spiritual walker. I will be able to smoke weed without the fear of being interned again in a rehab clinic.

TLDR; Is spiritual experience the same as psychosis?

Cheers and thanks for your opinions!

 

[Vastness]

Western medicine doesn't know anything about spiritualitty because Western medicine is largely based in science and no one has yet been able to come up with a way that spirituality can be studied in a scientific manner, or been able to demonstrate that it would even be worth doing so. Not to say that spirituality doesn't have value, and I would venture to say even that more research into spirituality, at least as a tool to understand human psychology, would probably benefit mental health treatments the most. But generally speaking, spirituality doesn't cure disease, and has never been reliably demonstrated to do so no matter how much some people may want to believe it does, so I think it's important to temper any feelings of frustration with Western medicine with a healthy dose of rationality and understanding that in general, for all it's faults Western medicine has been the primary driver in lengthening the lifespans and improving the overall health of all human beings in the last few centuries or so.

Is spiritual experience the same as psychosis?

Bluntly - no. Psychosis is a potentially dangerous distortion of reality, whereas a spiritual experience does not need to involve hallucinations or other reality distortions, and hopefully will not impede someone's basic understanding of the world. Psychoses can manifest as spiritual experiences, and equally some spiritual experiences can be a result of a psychosis, and this has probably happened countless times throughout human history... but they are not equivalent terms.

I know weed never caused me no harm

Are you sure about that? Because just from the facts given in your post, it would seem that in the last 10 years you have had 4 different incidences where drugs triggered something that resulted in you being diagnosed, medicated and institutionalised, and of those 4 incidences weed was the culprit in 2 of them. I'm not sure of your individual life circumstances, what part of the world you are from, or what exactly went down during those trips, but one-off drug induced hallucinations do not usually, on their own, result in a diagnosis of psychosis and institutionalisation, so this would suggest to me that your behaviour during those trips and potentially in the aftermath was abnormal enough that not once, but 4 times you were considered a danger to others and to yourself.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience on antipsychotics, I hear that they can be very disabling and harmful substances at times. However, I really do not think given your history that you should be smoking weed either, or probably taking any other drugs. What has changed in your life that makes you think you will not have a bad reaction again?

 

[Invegis]

First of all, thank you for your insight Vastness, I am sure weed caused me no harm, it was my social context that caused me harm;
My family wanted me to become integrated to society, become a businessman or something, so they oriented me towards a business school (I didn't want to study in the first place, I was more concerned about spiritual matters) so when they saw their child was becoming some kind of psychonaut, they panicked and sent me to rehab. At that time I was no danger to myself or to others, I was tricked into signing a paper because I was told it was a one week stay (how naïve of me) but when I signed the administrators told me I had just signed for a whole year.

For that time in rehab, I was told drugs were basically bad, as simplistic as that. Not that I could ever agree with it as you can understand, I used them not for recreational use but for spiritual communion.

The second time I was interned in a rehab was the same kind of story, it was my family that found I was depressed and blamed it on drugs, I was depressed because of other things (lost the love of my life but that's another story) and because of health issues. I was tricked again into thinking it was a place to rest, to wave away the depression but when I realised it, I was in some kind of AA program which I despise (personal opinion, no offense intended).

Once more I was not a danger to myself or others. I don't want to develop each and every occurence because it would be tedious to read but to make it short, my life was kind of destroyed by these institutionalisations, I am now 31 but in my mind I'm still a 21 years old guy who is diminished (seriously) by antipsychotics, I struggle to write this text. When I have to say something to my family, I have to write it first and read it to them because when I simply talk my thoughts are too slow to keep up with a debate, I can't hold my ground, I lack self-confidence, I was really destroyed by this experience.

But today is a new day for me, having taken this decision, my life will take a turn for the best I am sure. I will try first to smoke weed while taking my meds normally then with a doctor's plan slowly taper off the meds.

What has changed today that makes me think that things are different? It was a conversation with my family, I finally had my father's blessing to pursue my spiritual way, they finally gave up on the idea to integrate me as an average joe to this society where I don't fit in, I'm kind of an hermit, you see?

I believe western medicine is quick to diagnose psychosis, quick to fix it with antipsychotics, they won't even let the effect pass on its own, I am convinced of my place in the world is one of a mystic (not in a grandiose way) but as a spiritual person using weed to lead my experiences. I don't think mental illness should be treated through spirituality but discarding the component completely doesn't seem like a good idea either, if anything, try to find the inner wounds that cause the person to suffer, not just hammer them with meds. That's my humble criticism.

Thank you for taking the time to read me, I wish I could reply in a more complete way but as I told you, I am diminished, my brain is not working as intended, I am feeling weak both in confidence and energy. I will be waiting for your feedback

 

[Vastness]

Thanks for the clarification, however I feel like I am still not understanding something about this story. Why are the feelings of your family, about how you choose to live your life, so important to you?

Obviously there are many reasons that it's nice to have the blessing of your family, but if they've truly caused you so much stress to the point that you were (apparently, wrongly) committed to a psychiatric institution against your will on 4 separate occasions... I mean, even if you don't feel like it because of low self esteem and antipsychotic-induced brain fog, you are legally an adult and presumably physically capable of simply deciding that enough is enough, and removing yourself from their influence to pursue what you want to do, with or without their blessing. What stopped you from doing this?

 

[Invegis]

I believe this experience had me very dull, the way I was crushed by society all of the sudden removed my self confidence and the will to make decisions for myself. At the same time having a family who is conservative (old generation, old school) culturally about cannabis usage made me kind of rejected within my own family if you know what I mean, I was just "the junkie" and was doing something obviously wrong.

I am an adult and apt to make decisions for myself, I decided to stay on the meds because I can't deny western medicine's importance but I decide to smoke weed because for me its a matter of spirituality and self-development, some kind of self-actualisation. I told you what kept me from living my life the way I wanted to; it's because of respect for my elders, physically have my passport, ID, credit card, phone removed and put in rehab clinics where I was told smoking was bad and immoral as a vice, that's it.

How can I accept that what I do for spirituality is but a vice and immoral for these strangers? They do not get to decide for me, right?

So yeah, I only got this one life, I want to live it the way I want, not condemned to use a psychiatric-package, antipsychotic life is hard, that's why my nickname was Invegis, because of Invega, I participated on the post about paliperidone withdrawal, if I leave things the way they are going, I'm just gonna live 50 more years 8best case scenario) with this low quality of life. At least, when I smoke I am able to do things, feel normal for one, not short-sighted thoughts and robotised emotions only.

I won't be the first insane person to say "I'm not insane" so that's not what I'm trying to say, I have bipolar disease, I am aware of it, it's diagnosed. Along which I had only toxic psychosis but it was considered as mental illness. Let's just say that I was at the wrong place at the wrong time -- but i've never been violent or a danger.

I guess my experience is one of a kind, it's hard to tell a 10 years old story in just a few paragraphs but today I feel like I am free, it's very important for me that my family accepts me as I am, that they respect my choices and not want to make me go through again the removal of ID, money and phone, that's a horrible trauma for me and it happened twice. (i don't consider my stays in mental hospitals as horrific) That's in rehab.

You cannot rehabilitate someone who doesn't aspire to being rehabilitated, much less from a 12 steps program if you are aware of it, I don't agree with it, I don't believe in it, it's my right, right?
Being forced into these institutions made me a weaker person, I guess that's just life, an accumulation of experiences that have beginning and ends, and this whole nightmare came to an end for me, I'm now starting this new life, that's what I wanted to share the most I think with the debate between spirituality and western society.

Cause it seems to me that depending on what family you are born, in what country and culture you are born, and what society you belong to, you can be forced to do things you wish you didn't do although you don't agree with it and clearly say so while being considered legally sane. It's complicated, it is. I if I was born 20 years later, or perhaps if I was born in the USA where many states have legal medical marijuana, my family would see it differently from this "evil demon that turns people into monsters" mentality from the thirties.

 

[Foreigner]

But generally speaking, spirituality doesn't cure disease, and has never been reliably demonstrated to do so no matter how much some people may want to believe it does

Then why does the placebo effect account for 40% of all spontaneous improvements in health / cures in research and clinical practice?

It's so strongly prevalent that it has to be meticulously factored out of any empirical research. And the placebo effect is basically: you believe you're going to get better and then you get better. Sometimes the placebo group has a better outcome than the people being given the real treatment!

Even if you don't believe in spirit, there's a consciousness effect at work in healing that can't be explained by material reductionism.

I agree that modern medicine has prolonged lifespans and helped the world a great deal, but perhaps it should reserve its evaluations for the domains over which it is qualified and capable of assessing. Spiritual systems may be helping people but because they are incompatible with scientific evaluation, it's hard to qualify their benefits. But that doesn't mean there aren't any.

 

[Vastness]

^That's why I said "generally speaking". I'm not denying the placebo effect is real, although I would dispute whether this really counts as "spirituality". Also, if the placebo group does better than the real treatment, then that particular treatment is considered a failure - a placebo group is included in controlled studies for the explicit purpose of establishing a baseline against which any improvements can be measured. If something can said to have done "better than placebo", then it warrants further research - otherwise it is generally considered a failed experiment. The magnitude of the placebo effect is usually not that significant, and there are many serious conditions which it cannot help. Obviously people do occasionally experience spontaneous remission from serious cancers and the like, but this is rare and definitely not common.

When you say that this effect "can't be explained by material reductionism", maybe I'm wrong but to me this implies some kind of supernatural effect, on the other hand it seems pretty likely to me that the placebo effect is just tapping into some of the body's natural healing capabilities, which can also be unlocked in other ways. Perhaps with further research we would find ways that this effect could be better harnessed - or perhaps we would find that the mechanisms by which the body is healing itself are largely quite similar to those induced by certain drugs.

As far as anything being "incompatible with scientific evaluation", I am genuinely not sure this is possible. The scientific method at it's most fundamental level is just applied logic, which says if I do X and get Y, then perhaps doing X again will get Y again? Let's try it out! Just because it's not always clear exactly what X is and whether Y was truly the result of it doesn't mean that we should just throw logic out the window. There is no reason spirituality could not be scientifically evaluated.

Anyway, Invegis, thank you for answering my questions, it sounds like you've had a tough time and I wish you well in the future.