Ketamine bladder/cystitis symptoms from light to moderate use

[Hyperflux]

Any major risks of using ~35 mg once a week subcutaneously?

 

[AcidOctopus]

Definitely a very interesting thread. I had recently had a bit of a binge with K & also experienced some negative side affects. After a week of no use I was basically back to normal. And after 2 weeks I felt perfectly fine. Worst part was that I had noticed blood in my urine. That scared the fuck out of me. Was drinking lots of Detox Tea & Water during the 2 weeks off of K as well.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Definitely a very interesting thread. I had recently had a bit of a binge with K & also experienced some negative side affects. After a week of no use I was basically back to normal. And after 2 weeks I felt perfectly fine. Worst part was that I had noticed blood in my urine. That scared the fuck out of me. Was drinking lots of Detox Tea & Water during the 2 weeks off of K as well.

just because it doesn't hurt, the damage is still there and will be cumulative if you do it again. then you will be in pain for months on end or permanently

It's now been exactly since months since I last used K and I thought I'd give a little update for anyone who's still interested.

The story so far goes like this:

April - August 2017 - I used ketamine recreationally. Never more than a g in a weekend. Roughly every fortnight at first, culminating in a series of 2-3 weekends and music festivals where I used multiple days in a row. Still rarely more than a 1g in a weekend.

August 2017 - I started to notice strange abdominal symptoms that I immediately suspected to be ketamine related. Twinges and increased awareness in various parts of my abdomen and groin including what felt like my bladder

- These symptoms worsened through September and at their peak were bad enough to effect my sleeping for a few nights.
- They eventually died down and by the end of November I thought they had prettty much gone.

December 2017 - After assuming the symptoms gone and that I would be making a full recovery, the symptoms returned. This corresponded with a time in my life when I was partying a lot, using other drugs and alcoohol.

January 2018 - These symptoms worsened until I had another period where it affected my sleep for a few nights. This made me doubly anxious (a feedback cycle I think) and my mental health suffered for a while.

February - April - The symptoms seem to have very slowly got better. It's so gradual as to make it quite hard to recognise improvements but there definitely have been improvements.

April 2018 - After trying two GPs and a urologist with no answers I tried another urologist. He examined my bladder with an ultrasound and very quickly said "everything's fine". He then conducted a prostate exam which I found to be extremely painful. He seemed to think immediately (based on my reaction) that I had prostatitis. I gave him a semen sample which came back negative two days later. He advised that I take 800mg of ibuprofren every day for two weeks to ease my inflamed prostate. Tomorrow is the end of the two week period and though it does seem to be still improving, it's hard to tell why as it had been on the improve for the last few months anyway.

N.B. I've had blood tests with two different GPs and been fully tested for any STDs.

----

I'm still nowhere near having any answers but I still believe that the ketamine triggered whatever is happening. It's possible that it's affecting my prostate as much as my bladder but there's some talk in medical circles of prostatitis and interstitial cystitis being the same thing, so...

i have a very similar story. including the part where the doctor (uro) can't figure out wtf is wrong. And even if he knew...it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot that can be done with this conditions to treat them.

i'm going to a new uro next week that has a much better resume, maybe he can figure it out. I will also be telling him about my drug use, which the last uro didn't hear about

 

[yepyepwoah]

Thought I would post my recent experience with bladder issues and dissociatives here, it doesn't involve Ketamine but Deschloroketamine / 2'-OxO-PCM / O-PCM / DXE / DCK (just putting those terms all there for the potential benefit of any future searchers). In my limited experience, this compound is potentially even more prone to inducing bladder issues than Ketamine, which I would suspect has something to do with the very long duration of after-effects and potentially some metabolite(s) with a very long half life.

Anyway I had never done DCK before about 11 days ago, when I did 160mg - a day later I did another 80mg, and 3 days after that another 160mg. So in the space of about 5 days I did 400mg. I did not immediately notice any bladder strangeness, but started to notice something probably 2-3 days AFTER my last dose. My symptoms almost exactly mirrored what you are describing, stringybell, increased bladder awareness, just slight pain that came in waves, increased when I was sitting or lying in certain positions - during this time I didn't do any drugs and tried to just drink a lot of water and not stress myself out too much. The symptoms peaked in intensity during the 4th night I think when it was actually stopping me from sleeping, urination would bring immediate relief but then just 10-20 minutes later this light, intermittent pain would return. On day 5, remembering the advice of someone else in this thread I purchased some Olive Lead Extract and immediately took 2 capsules (equivalent to 132mg of Oleuropein, apparrently) and felt that this did make an immediate difference but it could have been placebo. I occasionally noticed the very slight pain throughout that day, but that night was much better. Today (day 6) the increased bladder awareness is almost entirely gone, I took another 2 OLE capsules and will continue to take 1 per day until I am sure that either my symptoms have gone entirely or are not going to improve significantly more (one thing to note, the formulation I got contains copper and zinc as well which means it would be inadvisable for me to take too much - otherwise I would probably be taking them more frequently).

Unfortunately I think that means I am now done with the entire arylcyclohexylamine class - at least, until a far more solid scientific understanding of the mechanism of bladder damage of this class emerges - especially as it relates to the newer ones. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I had a bladder "scare" at the start of the year, I think I can safely say now that wasn't psychosomatic, but real threshold symptoms and my first warning... I definitely don't need another. I'll update if there are any further developments.



I have a theory, although I'm not going to personally test it, that concurrent administration of diuretics with dissociatives would likely be a fairly solid harm reduction policy - based on the quite well supported idea that the bladder damage is caused by metabolites in the urine, this seems to make sense by simply making sure that urine is stored in the bladder for as short a time as possible. At least, this might work for ketamine as the half lives of ketamine and norketamine are not that long, I suspect that for O-PCE/O-PCM, and any other arylcyclohexylamines with very long after effects, continuous administration of diuretics during the days following and the drawn out comedown might be a good idea - while making sure to maintain adequate hydration and not fuck up electrolyte balances and the like, of course. So perhaps isotonic sports drinks and a few caffeine pills, I wouldn't advise alcohol but perhaps the diuretic effects in the short term could even offset the danger of longer term bladder damage. Although of course, again, in the absence of actual studies this is all completely theoretical and I might be way off.

Fuck yeah, that was probably me who mentioned the OLE. I only really started noticing bladder issues w/ dissos after using O PCE the first few times. This is after years of daily MXE, 3 meo pcp, ket. Used O PCE a few times, and it was like I could not piss at all while I was on it. I had to go so bad, but it just would not happen. I tried some cayenne pepper and lemon juice and that helped a little. I quite using dissos for a few days and my bladder got back to normal. Read about Olive Leaf Extract deep in the comment section about UTI's and bladder problems. Got some. Felt like my urinary tract was open wide as fuck and I was pissing easier than I had in forever. Now, if I'm taking dissos, I take OLE with it.
x
I've always had a weird bladder though. I remember having trouble pissing over half my life ago, before I started doing drugs. I went to the doctor and they didn't find anything wrong, except moderate prostatitis (awesome, was only like 26), and a vericosile in my left testicle (it's some sort of blood clot or some bullshit that eventually affects almost all men. If you have a mild pain in a testicle when bending, lifting, etc, you PROBABLY don't have cancer, just a vericosile. I'd still get it checked out. I'm just like "WHy the fuck has no one ever told me about this type of shit before?)

ANyway, I still take Olive Leaf Extract if I use dissos. I'm pretty sure my bladder is fucked, but oh well. I've been off dissos about 3 weeks now, and my bladder is feeling better, but I feel way more depressed and suicidal.

In a prime example of never learning my lesson, I think I'm getting some more O PCE just because I have things to accomplish in life and really don't feel like killing myself. Sorry mama, I'll try and not black out again.

 

[stringybell]

Hey LucidSDreamr I tired replying to your private message but it says your inbox is full and you need to clear some space...

just because it doesn't hurt, the damage is still there and will be cumulative if you do it again. then you will be in pain for months on end or permanently




i have a very similar story. including the part where the doctor (uro) can't figure out wtf is wrong. And even if he knew...it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot that can be done with this conditions to treat them.

i'm going to a new uro next week that has a much better resume, maybe he can figure it out. I will also be telling him about my drug use, which the last uro didn't hear about

 

[psilot]

I have had similar exeoriences with light usage. It was very alarming. It went away each time I stopped usage but would return again when I restarted. Seems it's doing damage and your body is telling u not to use it. Listen to your body

hi guys, before you experience the discomfort, do you feel ketamine is a bit diuretic?
I used 2fdck a few times, max dose is 30mg snorting(yes, I believe it's really low dose). I do feel need to piss a bit more often the following few days.
Is this normal? Or do you think it's already a warning from the body?

 

[Mr. Meowfish]

I'm not even going to front about the extent of my use of O-PCE in the past 7 months...While I've given a fuck ton away to heads to check out a new experience, and I've lost or flushed amounts as well...I grabbed 55 Grams and have maybe 3-4 left at this point. Opiate/Opioid addiction ruined my mind and body, after Heroin...relationships with Women feel no different than Addiction-I can have sex 3 times a day and still be bored...Do every compound under the sun and still be depressed and bored by life. I wish i had friends-but find no one loyal. Humans over and over again take advantage of me. It seems no one sees any value in my existence unless I'm making them money or giving them a part or piece of what makes me Me. I'm fed up with People and being alone. Drugs, reading, and Art are my only escapes. Any advice other than Rehab?
As for how I've been battling bladder damage. I drink a gallon or more of water daily. I also drink milk (vitamin D), grapefruit juice, very strong shots of instant coffee 3-4 times daily, I eat 3 or 4 small meals every day (salads which include Kale and all varieties of hearty greens,I eat fish more than any other meat, tons of fruits and vegetables, I cook and prepare damn near all my own food). I've noticed that using O-PCE like this...my metabolism is insane (along with my mind). I take a shit 3 times a day some days, but at least twice, occasionally 4. I have to piss every 1-2 Hours, but more due to constant hydration than K-Pains or Urgency. When I do get K-Pains, I make sure I hydrate quickly with water, juice and coffee-I also massage the area around my bladder gently to help relax. I understand that this entire cycle is problematic and potentially/eventually will be detrimental to my future...but at this point in my life-I don't see any other purpose or reason to change...So I'm at least trying to relay my experiences.
This post is not intended with any purpose but to inform.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

∆Caffiene actually makes it worse. It's contraindicated in cystitis sufferers.

I've had Caffiene cause flares.

If you are in pain I highly suggest Amitriptyline it's the only think that worked for me...better than opioids even.

It takes about a month to take effect. I have not had a flare since and even eaten or drank things that shouldve caused flares

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah my girl has cystitis and can't have caffeine at all, or alcohol. Interestingly she can have mate, if it's not too strong, but any amount of tea or especially coffee, or even a caffeine pill, will fuck her bladder up.

 

[ecstacylover]

Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), one of the constituents of green tea, has been shown to reduce ketamine-induced bladder damage in rats to near-control levels. Although I don't know how helpful it would be retroactively, it's certainly worth looking into. Anecdotally, I recently used 3-MeO-PCE/DCK for about 7-8 days straight and some days after stopping I suddenly got a sharp pain in my bladder region that persisted for about 30 minutes before I decided to chug a venti green tea and within 30 minutes the pain had completely dissipated. Obviously in my case it could have been placebo or just gone away on its own but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. You can even purchase isolated EGCG if you want to avoid caffeine.

 

[jenni tal]

I've been using k for nearly 3 years, 100-250mg per weekly session and mostly in combo with psys. No pain or bladder trouble here. There's individual physical differences and also differences in the product but I thought I'd post anyway: it doesn't seem to have done me any harm and has taken me on many mind blowing journeys.

 

[Vastness]

dissociatives are themselves diuretics.

also if you read the other concurrent thread Cotcha has explained that the damage is based on physiological cascades initiated by the dissos and not a direct effect.

Really, that's interesting, if you happen to have the time do you think you could link to this or quote it?

Could be a benefit for other people who happen upon this thread as well as myself . I couldn't actually find the other thread although I remember there was one... I'll have a longer look later otherwise, but I would like to also second the suggestion that mods either merge these threads, or, possibly, create a sticky for Ketamine bladder damage issues? It seems to be a recurring theme.



Besides that, I am not proud to admit that because I apparently just lack resolve, and despite posting a bunch about how I was just done with arylcyclohexylamines in a bunch of threads like this... I have since then done Ketamine a few times again, although in much lower quantities, maybe just a gram or so a couple of times a few weeks apart.

Dissociatives really do have an insidious pull, in my experience. Fortunately, this doesn't seem to have caused any noticeable recurrence in bladder issues, although no doubt it is still not smart and could be playing with fire. I will definitely be exercising a lot more caution in the future and I think my brief foray into multi-day dissociative binges and the newer aryl-RCs is over, at least.

 

[day2ofmylife]

I tried k last week for the first time. It was suppose to be very pure and good k, and I was thrilled to try it out. Did almost 150mg over 2-3 hours and did not even get high - just slightly sedated (like on opiates). However, I encountered that my balls got hard and it hurt in my bladder, almost directly after the first snort. Also, I had to pee at least 2-3 times (like on alcohol)... Now it has gone 6 days and the pain i subtle but still there (again, note this was the FIRST time I used it). Sometimes it hurts more, sometimes nothing, but almost always I can feel the subtle pain. Worth mentioning is that I have had problems earlier with cystitis - not related to drugs, even though it was years ago.

This is very sad because even though I did not get high, k instantly took my severe depression away which is like a miracle. And even though I haven't got the depression back yet, it will of course come back sooner or later. Nothing else has helped and I haven't been able to work until now that k took it away. My life is back to normal after almost a year of misery, but then again... it is probably temporary and I don't know if it's worth trying it out again if (when) the depression comes back due to the pain.

Very strange that I got this during my first try and that I didn't feel more after 150mg? :/

 

[Rupert D]

Last time I did ketamine, I had horrendous kidney pain for a week. Like a throb in my lower back. That was worrying. But it went and I'm done with ketamine.

Great drug, though. First time I k-holed, I tripped like I imagine a Native American trips. Everyone in the room turned into animal versions of themselves and became statues while I sat there for what felt like an hour just stuck in time and space.

 

[jhjhsdi]

Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), one of the constituents of green tea, has been shown to reduce ketamine-induced bladder damage in rats to near-control levels. Although I don't know how helpful it would be retroactively, it's certainly worth looking into. Anecdotally, I recently used 3-MeO-PCE/DCK for about 7-8 days straight and some days after stopping I suddenly got a sharp pain in my bladder region that persisted for about 30 minutes before I decided to chug a venti green tea and within 30 minutes the pain had completely dissipated. Obviously in my case it could have been placebo or just gone away on its own but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. You can even purchase isolated EGCG if you want to avoid caffeine.

Very interesting will be trying this for sure. Any links? This is the kind of info I was hoping to find tbh.

Guys check my recent thread in TDS about k bladder. I've been (sort of) managing it for years now.

 

[woodyfence]

Boofing 600 mg of Ketamine gave me a delicate feeling inside I didn't really like. This was a time when I was boofing 30-50 mg 3-MeO-PCP every day as well, which could contribute to bladder issues more slowly than ketamine.

 

[Spliff Politics]

I know that bum-dropping ketamine isn't a great way of taking it, no better than oral in fact, but does anyone know if it produces a higher percentage of the metabolite nor-ketamine just like the oral ROA? From what I understand that metabolite is responsible for a lot of ketamines negative effects.

 

[Dresden]

To the original poster,

You should have known better than to take ketamine that much, knowing that It's induced bladder injuries in heavy users are serious, irreversible, and highly painful.

Ok, so you didn't even use it that much, but honestly, these bladder issues are serious business, and you have no business ever taking ketamine again unless you just Don't GAF at all about long term urinary continence. The ketamine bladder issues may be a sequeale of an impurity now found in street ketamine, cuz in the late 1990s, I would do 1.2g in 36 hours at times and never experienced any bladder issues.

 

[Spliff Politics]

You should have known better than to take ketamine that much, knowing that It's induced bladder injuries in heavy users are serious, irreversible, and highly painful.
.

If it was a simple case of not knowing any better do you not think that drug addiction wouldn't be anything close to as big of a problem as it is?

The ketamine bladder issues may be a sequeale of an impurity now found in street ketamine, cuz in the late 1990s, I would do 1.2g in 36 hours at times and never experienced any bladder issues.

Nah, less pure ketamine is no worse for your bladder, it would be the other way around if anything. How well your bladder can tolerate the potential damage caused by ketamine is purely down to a role of the genetic dice (besides how often you take it, hydration and all of that bizznizz). I too can IM 4gs across the space of 3 days and experience no issues, beyond a slightly weaker bladder in the morning for the next week or so.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Boofing 600 mg of Ketamine gave me a delicate feeling inside I didn't really like. This was a time when I was boofing 30-50 mg 3-MeO-PCP every day as well, which could contribute to bladder issues more slowly than ketamine.

3meoPCP always caused the worst pain and bladder flares for me. ketamine caused the least out of any dissociative i've used. There is no evidence that having less mass wise of an unknown RC dissociative will do less damage than having a greater mass of pharmaceutical ketamine