Ketamine bladder/cystitis symptoms from light to moderate use

[The Shadow Self]

I had similar issues with MXE. It scared the shit out of me, and I was actually OK with MXE becoming far less available. As you likely know, it was everywhere a couple of years ago, and I would buy many grams of the super HQ stuff. That stuff is WAY more-ish, and so easy to get addicted to if you are the disso-lover type. But yes...the symptoms cleared up rather quickly once I stopped, and of course I was doing to much at the time. God, I can still taste it...

 

[XenuMuscaria]

Thank you for posting updates. I don’t have any answers for you unfortunately, but I have similar concerns about my own urinary tract. I think this thread is important, and I appreciate you following up.

Re: your coke/md use though, are you staying hydrated while on them? I’ve got some mild UT discomfort which I suspect is due to DCK use, and I find it mostly bothers me when I’m dehydrated. Drinking plenty of water might alleviate some symptoms?

 

[stringybell]

Thank you for posting updates. I don’t have any answers for you unfortunately, but I have similar concerns about my own urinary tract. I think this thread is important, and I appreciate you following up.

Re: your coke/md use though, are you staying hydrated while on them? I’ve got some mild UT discomfort which I suspect is due to DCK use, and I find it mostly bothers me when I’m dehydrated. Drinking plenty of water might alleviate some symptoms?

I'm glad it's of some use to you. I've been quite surprised about how little discussion there is of these issues, considering how many people experience similar symptoms, whether short or long term. There seems to be a lot of awareness and discussion about what happens when you go all the way and experience serious bladder issues, but little discussion of the milder symptoms, which are nonetheless very disconcerting. So I figured it might be helpful to provide as full an account of my situation as possible.

It's ten days since my last post and I'm still experiencing some minor symptoms from this second bout, over three months on from last using ketamine.

To answer your question - no, I'm not very good at staying hydrated while I'm using coke and MD. In fact I'm usually drinking a lot of booze as well. Do you think this could be a major contributing factor? I am aware that I should improve my habits here.

I'm interested to hear that you have similar concerns. It would be great if you could give some more details about your situation.

 

[XenuMuscaria]

I’d used about 250mgs of DCK over the course of two months before I had my first symptoms. I felt a discomfort in my perineum and experienced a loss of bladder control while high. After I was done pissing it would keep trickling, slowly. I got freaked out and stopped all use for a month. I regained full bladder control within 24hrs and the discomfort was gone after a week or two.

After the end of my sober month I resumed using dissociatives, albeit at a lower frequency. After a few uses the discomfort returned. The leaky bladder has not returned, however. My bladder volymer is normal and I’ve had no physical symptoms other than the mild but nearly constant discomfort. It’s been a little bit worse the day after a dose, but then it’s always gone back to “baseline”. If I’m standing or walking, the discomfort goes away completely. It only makes itself known if I sit or lie in a certain way. I suspect it’s a problem with my prostate.

I’ve been meaning to visit a doctor but I don’t really know what to tell them. Other than the perineal symptoms, my only symptom is occasional pinches of mild pain in various parts of my body. Left arm, left hand, left leg and lower back where I believe my kidneys are. I’m a little bit worried about them. That said, I had discomfort in the kidney region before dissos as well, and the doc said there was nothing wrong with them.

As to what you were saying about booze, I’ve noticed my symptoms seem to get worse when I drink too much alcohol or too little water.

Edit: ceased use of DCK completely and switched to O-PCE and 3-HO-PCE once. O-PCE seems more benign, although I could be fooling myself.

 

[stringybell]

Cystitis or any permanent fibrosis after moderate use is very unlikely. I'm not sure it's ever been documented before. Norketamine certainly produces this over time and some individuals seem to be more prone than others. However, permanent bladder problems are almost exclusively seen in the heaviest users (often exceeding grams per day for years. Addiction can get that grimy.)

Bladder irritation on the other hand is relatively common after even a month of moderate use. I have experienced difficulty and painful urination after a couple months of weekly use. Abstain use for at least 5-6 months and hydrate well with water. The irritation will heal as long as you do not continue using without a healthy break.

Reading back through your comment, I'm hoping it's true but some doubt is starting to creep in. It's been three months since I used ketamine (and that was only a tiny bit accidentally after a previous month of abstinence) and the cystitis/UTI-like symptoms have flared up again. I've been experience minor symptoms - tight bladder, mild odd bladder sensations and slight stinging when I pee for about a month now.

I did have a period of frequently using other drugs such as MDMA and cocaine. One possibility is that this aggravated the nearly healed damage.

Would you still maintain that these symptoms should disappear once I've given my self enough of a break (5-6 months as you suggested)?

I absolutely don't plan on using ketamine again but . I'm currently taking a few months all drugs to be safe.

 

[stringybell]

I?€™d used about 250mgs of DCK over the course of two months before I had my first symptoms. I felt a discomfort in my perineum and experienced a loss of bladder control while high. After I was done pissing it would keep trickling, slowly. I got freaked out and stopped all use for a month. I regained full bladder control within 24hrs and the discomfort was gone after a week or two.

After the end of my sober month I resumed using dissociatives, albeit at a lower frequency. After a few uses the discomfort returned. The leaky bladder has not returned, however. My bladder volymer is normal and I?€™ve had no physical symptoms other than the mild but nearly constant discomfort. It?€™s been a little bit worse the day after a dose, but then it?€™s always gone back to ?€œbaseline?€. If I?€™m standing or walking, the discomfort goes away completely. It only makes itself known if I sit or lie in a certain way. I suspect it?€™s a problem with my prostate.

I?€™ve been meaning to visit a doctor but I don?€™t really know what to tell them. Other than the perineal symptoms, my only symptom is occasional pinches of mild pain in various parts of my body. Left arm, left hand, left leg and lower back where I believe my kidneys are. I?€™m a little bit worried about them. That said, I had discomfort in the kidney region before dissos as well, and the doc said there was nothing wrong with them.

As to what you were saying about booze, I?€™ve noticed my symptoms seem to get worse when I drink too much alcohol or too little water.

Edit: ceased use of DCK completely and switched to O-PCE and 3-HO-PCE once. O-PCE seems more benign, although I could be fooling myself.

Some of your symptoms do indeed sound similar to mine, particularly the constant mild discomfort which is exaggerated while sitting or lying. Just to be clear, are you still using any dissos?

It's now been about four months since the last time I used a very small amount of K following a previous 6 week abstinence. The flare-up that began about a month ago has stuck around. It is mostly mild but in the last couple of days it has become more prominent.

 

[Xorkoth]

My girl has interstitial cystitis, not from ketamine use, but some people are more prone to bladder damage than others. She's had to learn how to eat so that it doesn't bother her too much. Whenever she eats outside of her realm of what works, it flares up much worse.

It never affected her at all or was even a thing until she was 29.

 

[XenuMuscaria]

Yeah, I use a low dose once every couple of weeks. I know I probably shouldn?t, but they?re my favorite class of substances. What?s weird is that I used half a gram of 2F-DCK in a period of two weeks last winter, without any symptoms. Fast forward six months, and half as muck DCK is giving me problems. Another six months later I don?t think anything?s gotten worse, maybe a little. I?ve never done DXM, but I?ve been thinking about getting some to replace ACH?s.

 

[stringybell]

Interesting. Has she used ketamine at all?

Right now I'm trying to figure out if what I have is something that will clear up eventually with cessation or whether I have ketamine induced interstitial cystitis that's widely documented in the literature.

If the latter, then the amount of ketamine it took to get here is far less than what I thought possible and indeed as I see it far less than what is generally perceived to be a minimal level of usage. Even if I'm one of the unlucky ones, it's still quite concerning to me how little documentation of these symptoms there are and I would advise friends who still use the drug to exercise a lot more caution.

 

[stringybell]

Yeah, I use a low dose once every couple of weeks. I know I probably shouldn?t, but they?re my favorite class of substances. What?s weird is that I used half a gram of 2F-DCK in a period of two weeks last winter, without any symptoms. Fast forward six months, and half as muck DCK is giving me problems. Another six months later I don?t think anything?s gotten worse, maybe a little. I?ve never done DXM, but I?ve been thinking about getting some to replace ACH?s.

Are you concerned that you might have done irreversible damage? That's what worries me at this stage.

 

[XenuMuscaria]

Are you concerned that you might have done irreversible damage? That's what worries me at this stage.

I worry about that. Mostly that it might get worse as I become older.

By the way, were your CPPS symptoms present before ketamine, or only after?

 

[stringybell]

I worry about that. Mostly that it might get worse as I become older.

By the way, were your CPPS symptoms present before ketamine, or only after?

I had never experienced anything like this before I used ketamine.

I'm also concerned that it might get worse. I'm still holding some hope that my urinary tract just needs a lot longer to recover properly. I guess only time will tell.

 

[Vastness]

I had the first potential twinge of bladder issues I have ever had recently following a period of 5 days in which I used basically 5 grams of K, which is the most I've ever used in this period before. About a week before this I did about 800mg over the course of a single session. Before this, I hadn't done any K or any other dissociatives for over 6 months. However... my symptoms were mild enough that I am not totally decided if it was fully psychosomatic and I am just worrying myself for no reason because I know about the bladder dangers.

The first hint of weirdness was some (again, possibly psychosomatic) urinary retention on an insufflated 4-HO-MET trip during which I was also doing K. However, I have had psychosomatic urinary retention on psychedelics before (I say psychosomatic because I am not aware of any other mechanism by which tryptamines and lysergamides can induce urinary retention). Naturally I spent the rest of the trip worrying about it, I stopped doing K briefly after this but continued my small binge maybe a day later after getting drunk and doing some cocaine, because I like to use K to come down from cocaine... on that note, there were at least a couple of occasions during this 5 day period where I drank (mostly just a few beers, only on one day excessively), so that obviously would aggravate any K-induced bladder symptoms.

Anyway once I stopped and all the other drugs wore off, for a while I was definitely more aware of my bladder and the urge to urinate, when I had it... However, again, I cannot say with 100% certainty that this was a real, physical thing, or if I just scared myself during a trip and was experiencing the psychological aftereffects.

I haven't had any pain, and I don't believe I have actually been urinating any more often... so I am hoping that this was completely psychosomatic, or, if not, perhaps my experience during that 4-HO-MET trip was my mind taking the opportunity to warn me about the subtle first indicators of damage, and hopefully I then stopped in time that if I did cause any changes to my bladder, they will fully reverse with abstinence... Anyway, just thought I would add my anecdote to the thread.

 

[Xorkoth]

Interesting. Has she used ketamine at all?

No, she's never used ketamine. I only posted it to say that some people are prone to bladder issues. You may want to consider cutting your diet way back in terms of acidic foods, coffee, alcohol, etc, and seeing if it helps. if it does, you can try adding foods back in one at a time and if it starts getting worse again, you'll know you need to cut it out.

 

[Tzcatlipoca]

No, she's never used ketamine. I only posted it to say that some people are prone to bladder issues. You may want to consider cutting your diet way back in terms of acidic foods, coffee, alcohol, etc, and seeing if it helps. if it does, you can try adding foods back in one at a time and if it starts getting worse again, you'll know you need to cut it out.

Eating too much salty foods with unsaturated fat content (junk food) can be a major cause of bladder cystitis and kidney stones.
Genetics factor in, as well as exercise and again, healthy diet.
Best,
Tez

 

[Xorkoth]

She's always eaten organic, low-salt, very light, very little meat, never eaten junk food like ever, she wasn't allowed to as a kid (also started eating organic, mostly vegetable diet since birth) and the one time she tried fast food (as a rebellion) it made her throw up and she thought it was disgusting. Also very few drugs in her life. Some people are just prone to stuff.

 

[Tzcatlipoca]

She's always eaten organic, low-salt, very light, very little meat, never eaten junk food like ever, she wasn't allowed to as a kid (also started eating organic, mostly vegetable diet since birth) and the one time she tried fast food (as a rebellion) it made her throw up and she thought it was disgusting. Also very few drugs in her life. Some people are just prone to stuff.

There you go, you found the problem.
For health reasons she should have a more rounded and balanced diet. I find vegetarians/vegans are more susceptible and prone to health problems not because of abundance of toxicity, but rather, lack of nutrition.
Does she take her vitamins every day?
Any mention worthy protein intake?
"Organic" does not necessarily equate to "Healthy"
Love,
Tez

 

[Xorkoth]

When this started she was eating very well, by "very little meat" I mean she'd eat chicken or fish or occasionally beef 2-3 times a week, as part of a larger dish rather than as a main portion. Lots of legumes and nuts. Reasonable amounts of dairy too. Eating with a thought for getting a full balance of nutrients. Nutrition has always been important to her, she taught me a lot about how to eat in a healthier way (as I grew up in the midwest in the 80s and 90s and basically ate like shit), this is how she was raised, but additionally with a strong focus on eating organic meat and vegetables instead of non-organic. Multivitamins aren't necessary if you eat the right stuff. Bladder and stomach problems relatively quickly started happening a couple of years ago, out of seemingly nowhere, and she has to eat very plain now a lot of the time and it's sometimes hard for her to get enough food, but it wasn't always that way. She's still trying to figure out what it is, but she has figured out how to live with it... which was the point of my post, not really about discussing her issues. My point is, regardless of what happened/why it happened, to deal with it, you should look to your diet.

 

[Tzcatlipoca]

When this started she was eating very well, by "very little meat" I mean she'd eat chicken or fish or occasionally beef 2-3 times a week, as part of a larger dish rather than as a main portion. Lots of legumes and nuts. Reasonable amounts of dairy too. Eating with a thought for getting a full balance of nutrients. Nutrition has always been important to her, she taught me a lot about how to eat in a healthier way (as I grew up in the midwest in the 80s and 90s and basically ate like shit), this is how she was raised, but additionally with a strong focus on eating organic meat and vegetables instead of non-organic. Multivitamins aren't necessary if you eat the right stuff. Bladder and stomach problems relatively quickly started happening a couple of years ago, out of seemingly nowhere, and she has to eat very plain now a lot of the time and it's sometimes hard for her to get enough food, but it wasn't always that way. She's still trying to figure out what it is, but she has figured out how to live with it... which was the point of my post, not really about discussing her issues. My point is, regardless of what happened/why it happened, to deal with it, you should look to your diet.

Great advice.
Funny you mention nuts, my home recipe for nutrition-in-a-bucket breakfast is a teacup of warm milk sweetened with a mixture of honey sludge containing crushed almonds, walnuts and cashews.
Best,
Tez

 

[stringybell]

When this started she was eating very well, by "very little meat" I mean she'd eat chicken or fish or occasionally beef 2-3 times a week, as part of a larger dish rather than as a main portion. Lots of legumes and nuts. Reasonable amounts of dairy too. Eating with a thought for getting a full balance of nutrients. Nutrition has always been important to her, she taught me a lot about how to eat in a healthier way (as I grew up in the midwest in the 80s and 90s and basically ate like shit), this is how she was raised, but additionally with a strong focus on eating organic meat and vegetables instead of non-organic. Multivitamins aren't necessary if you eat the right stuff. Bladder and stomach problems relatively quickly started happening a couple of years ago, out of seemingly nowhere, and she has to eat very plain now a lot of the time and it's sometimes hard for her to get enough food, but it wasn't always that way. She's still trying to figure out what it is, but she has figured out how to live with it... which was the point of my post, not really about discussing her issues. My point is, regardless of what happened/why it happened, to deal with it, you should look to your diet.

How much of a role does diet play in cystitis and similar conditions? I understand that things like beer and coffee (technically diet I guess) can have an effect because they're going right through your urinary tract.

I'm vegetarian and have a relatively balanced diet. It's early days still but I don't feel like diet has much of an effect. More likely lifestyle considerations are more important - not going on too many dehydrating benders and getting enough sleep.