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Ontario to open 40-60 Marijuana stores (effing diaster waiting to happen)

Thomas Davie

Thomas Davie

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http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-to-sell-recreational-marijuana-in-up-to-60-new-stores

News conference happens in about an hour.

For those who don't know, Ontario has a population of ~13 million. 40-60 stores, or ~210,000 customers/store.

Denver, CO has a population of around 700,000 (hey, if I'm wrong I'm not American - sorry) and 800+ standalone stores; or ~875 customers/store.

Somehow, these magical stores will be serving 2-300 times as many customers as each of the stores in Denver.

Yup, there is nothing as Canadian as doing legalization wrong in our largest province.

Tom

edit 1 - another source says 150 stores

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...-marijuana-stores-when-weed-is-legalized.html

edit 2 - CBC source

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/province-cannabis-plan-1.4280484

According to the province, the ability of the stores to sell is contingent upon product from licensed producers *ONLY*

Hell, who ever wants to buy weed outside of the hours of 8 am - 4 pm?, or Mon-Sat only?

edit 3 - Ontario Attorney General says Cannabis can be consumed and grown anywhere on private property
 
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Quebec will most likely follow that path and landlords will make it difficult to grow. I guess I will continue to be a dangerous criminal for many years to come...
 
Initially when I heard Ontario was going to have legal shops I was thinking that's great news and that I wish we could have that happen here in Australia (where all weed is black market, there are no dispensaries or anything like that here) but after reading more and more opinions and news on it I can understand your point and concern Thomas.
 
Regulation still has a long way to come. I think any step away from prohibition is a positive movement. I would think that they are limiting the number of stores so they can maintain control or oversight and prevent a ton of stores from popping up before they have been able to test the regulations and what not put in place.

Once the tax money is rolling in, even conservative will have a hard time opposing regulation. All the arguments against regulation seem obsolete. Cannabis is the second most used substance by adolescents next to alcohol, so keeping it illegal isn't keeping it out of the hands of kids.

Really once it goes legal it will likely be controlled by large corporations or people with a ton of money. Family run grows probably wont survive legalization. They are largely being phased out in CA by hefty fees and a flooded market caused by massive grows funded by already wealthy. It's the nature of capitalism...
 
Mafioso said:
Really once it goes legal it will likely be controlled by large corporations or people with a ton of money. Family run grows probably wont survive legalization. They are largely being phased out in CA by hefty fees and a flooded market caused by massive grows funded by already wealthy. It's the nature of capitalism...
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I'm Canadian, at least 50% socialist :), but what pisses me off is that the citizens of Canada have no say in what is happening - at least in Manitoba.

The government is really pushing mail order weed as part of the solution and I just feel like smacking my head against the wall repeatedly. National mail order weed. Sold by the government. Delivered by the government. Offered up as a solution if any given municipality opts out of sales.

We don't have capitalism in the legal weed market in Canada.

Tom
 
That is crazy I can't imagine a government ran delivery service for weed will be able to meet the needs of consumers the way that a large collection of small growers have been able to.

Do you know anything about the restrictions/allowances for personal cultivation? I can't imagine they would be able to stomp out the black market for cannabis if the legal market/services aren't adequate, especially if they allow cultivation for personal use.

I'm not very informed about the whole situation in Canada, but when it comes to trying to replace a black market the individual always has a choice as far as who they decide to give their money/business to. The federal government will be competing with the current market, whether black, grey, or legal.
 
Mafioso said:
That is crazy I can't imagine a government ran delivery service for weed will be able to meet the needs of consumers the way that a large collection of small growers have been able to.

Do you know anything about the restrictions/allowances for personal cultivation? I can't imagine they would be able to stomp out the black market for cannabis if the legal market/services aren't adequate, especially if they allow cultivation for personal use.

I'm not very informed about the whole situation in Canada, but when it comes to trying to replace a black market the individual always has a choice as far as who they decide to give their money/business to. The federal government will be competing with the current market, whether black, grey, or legal.
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Yes, here are the personal cultivation limits imposed by the federal government. As a disclaimer, any province/territory can add restrictions or impose limitations

-4 plants per household
-height limit of 100 cm/40 inches.
-unlimited storage of Cannabis at production site

A province could reduce this to 3, 2, 1 plants or disallow personal cultivation entirely. Manitoba could impose a 35 inch height limit, require a cultivation license, mandate home inspections, place you on a grower database, limit your production or place an age restriction on who may grow. Municipalities may impose additional security measures for home growers. Locked interior room, bars in windows, who knows. That's the bad news, because nothing has been announced yet.

One shining bit of good news is Alberta; which looks like they may be allowing private sales out of the 1400 existing liquor stores in that province (population 4.2 million).

I'm travelling with my weed in February and hope I don't get stopped by cops. I don't expect to be believe when I tell them I'm allowed to travel with 30x my daily limit.

These are weird dark times to be a Cannabis user in Canada. Hey, a federal mail strike would spur the black market!

Tom
 
Yeah, the Ontario plan is going to be an utter disaster. They could just as easily and more cheaply set up government testing labs and a registration/testing regimen for any business that wants to sell...and then tax the product. Instead they are reinventing the entire system. Except on a scale that will cause legal marijuana to be sold out across the province within the first hour of sales. I mean hell, how are they even going to deal with the crowds? Do they have any idea what their dealing with?
 
Keep in mind this is only Ontario so far......

Weed sales start on a Sunday.

You approach the counter, show your ID, pay, they retrieve your order from a back room (no inspection of the product) in a sealed, opaque package and then you leave. Pricing and taxes left up to each province and additional taxes left up to each municipality. Best guess based on what licensed producers have stated is $10/g all taxes included, no price breaks for quantity purchases. Province could cap purchases at any amount up to 30 g. There *could* be a 1 g per transaction purchase limit,

No, Ontario is totally underestimating demand. The shitty thing is that the recreational weed comes from the same feeding trough as prescribed weed - likely meaning shortages for patients.

Tom
 
You're right about that, I have a friend who gets his medical through Tweed and he's terrified. They have shortages already and they only sell to green cards.
 
iksaxophone said:
You're right about that, I have a friend who gets his medical through Tweed and he's terrified. They have shortages already and they only sell to green cards.
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Tweed (part of Canopy Growth Corporation) has been purchasing smaller licensed producers and ship approximately 1/3 of the total medical weed in Canada (currently). You're spot on the money about Tweed/shortages. My first LP was swallowed up by Tweed and promptly raised prices from 5$/g to $8.50/g. Most of what I used (higher THC Indica) from this LP is never in stock. If you don't get the email for product release - it's a crapshoot.

Tell your friend that to the limit of his financial capability that he should stock up prior to July 1rst. Even though I'm Canadian I'm aware of 'opening' shortages in both Colorado and Washington. And those jurisdictions kept medical separate from recreational. Sigh, not so in Canada.

A little bit of good news; the House of Commons is holding weeklong hearings at the moment and a recommendation to increase personal production allowances from 4 plants to 10 plants was made, as well as removing height restrictions. That's at the federal level though; a province could impose a 20 inch height limit that would override federal rules.

Trust Canadians to overcomplicate things and screw it up.

Tom
 
Hey now, I know some Canadians and may even be one and the government is nothing but competant and professional in everything it does from the PM to the mayors. Look at Rob Ford, have you ever seen someone smoke crack so efficiently? I sure as hell haven't. Not to mention he was in charge of the largest city in the country. I wouldn't even be able to manage a relationship in that state.. With a dog..
 
For one Denver is a city and Ontario is a territory. From what I've read metro Toronto has about 6 million people, metro Denver 3 million. Ontario 13 million, Colorado 6 million. But these numbers are moot, you can't assume every person is going to use the weed shops, and even if you figure out what % of the population smokes, you would still need to take frequency into account. Even with the population differences I can almost guarantee that Coloradans smoke way more weed than the people of Ontario. That state is full of hippies and stoners(I mean this in a good way). with that being said, I am not claiming to no how well the proposed number of stores will serve Ontario, but I highly doubt it is going to be a 'disaster', even if some stores struggle to keep up with demand I don't see mobs flocking to the pot shops and rioting when their favorite strain is sold out.
 
There are going to be some places with issues, at least. London ON has about 400,000 and it is usually seen as a very conservative and boring place. But there are a disproportionately high number of weed users there, and they are likely to get only one dispensary.
Of course there won't be riots. It's just that any demand the government can't supply will be provided by private, under-the-table entrepreneurs. And my guess is that the government will not be able to supply most people most of the time.
 
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Quebec has apparently decided that personal cultivation will not be allowed in the province. Egzoset; do you know anything about this? All I can glean is that La Belle Province has decided things were moving too fast??

Tom
 
well imagine they are like a hardware store and not a hospital. 60 stores, thats one for each city over 100 thousand people. if they do online sales, or are large, or sell large amounts, it should be fine. most people dont smoke weed, many that do only do it very infrequently and the ones who are regular will prob be on medical or grow their own anyway
 
Cwest said:
well imagine they are like a hardware store and not a hospital. 60 stores, thats one for each city over 100 thousand people. if they do online sales, or are large, or sell large amounts, it should be fine. most people dont smoke weed, many that do only do it very infrequently and the ones who are regular will prob be on medical or grow their own anyway
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If you're Canadian, then you already know medical users can only legally get their weed online. No inspection of product prior to purchase and no returns (some LP's will issue refunds, but this is an exception and not the rule). Can be up to 3 days to receive your product via Canada Post or a courier, If you're not at home, or at work - SOL; and you get the privilege of picking up your medicine at a post office.

I've had a package so badly damaged that you could easily tell it contained weed. If sales are capped (in stores), or if recreational users pay higher tax rates, then that can easily lead to someone not being able to afford all of their medication.

And so far, only Organigram has made a public declaration committing to maintaining a medical supply. In Ontario at least, the law requires *ALL* MJ to come from federally inspected LP's.

I don't know about you, but I don't want the police anywhere near my house. I've been avoiding them like the rotting pieces of crap they are - and will not voluntarily subject myself to police inspection just so I can grow medicine.

Tom
 
Coolwhip said:
For one Denver is a city and Ontario is a territory. From what I've read metro Toronto has about 6 million people, metro Denver 3 million. Ontario 13 million, Colorado 6 million. But these numbers are moot, you can't assume every person is going to use the weed shops, and even if you figure out what % of the population smokes, you would still need to take frequency into account. Even with the population differences I can almost guarantee that Coloradans smoke way more weed than the people of Ontario. That state is full of hippies and stoners(I mean this in a good way). with that being said, I am not claiming to no how well the proposed number of stores will serve Ontario, but I highly doubt it is going to be a 'disaster', even if some stores struggle to keep up with demand I don't see mobs flocking to the pot shops and rioting when their favorite strain is sold out.
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Thats what I was gonna say. The amount of pot stores you will need could vary wildly from city to city. For example, here in Michigan most city will have 1-3 health food stores. In Boulder Colorado there is a health food store on every corner and even the vending machines sell health food.

Also, the pot stores can theoretically each serve a lot more people than the Denver health food stores only it will result in long wait times, which sucks obviously but isn't so much of a disaster as a situation that can be fixed/improved upon in time.
 
Can I ask if your a foreign national working in canada and on a visa and that it be cool to buy some at the store or not ?? I'm curious is all. Like the Netherlands is all good even though they were floating some ideas such as coffeeshops having membership cards and you must hold one in order to buy some weed. I.e the tourist would not avail of it but that proposal never really got going.

In uruguay I think they you must have an id that is registered on a government website alllowng you to buy some ganja. Again so tourists and that cant avail of it. I ight be wrong.
 
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