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Coming Down the Mountain (PST Taper and W/D)

Lope cross the bbb and is pumped back out by a mechanism I can't think of the name of. Don't try talking it in high doses as if it doesn't cause heart issues you'd just be replacing one opiate with another.
 
I'm only taking loperamide to control the diarrhea. I took 8mg yesterday and the day before -- a double-dose, but not crazy high.
 
I took 8 mg loperamide at 9:00, which helped with my stomach, but started getting sniffly so I took *1/8* of a dose, 0.25 oz poppy seeds, barely a big spoonful, around 10:15. I don't know if you could even call that micro-dosing anymore; more like nano-dosing! At food-grade levels like this, it's hard to say whether it's just psychosomatic or I'm getting actual relief, but I'll tell ya, I don't have the sniffles anymore.

I know I have to rip the band-aid off here soon, but the worst is definitely over.... Or so I hope. I started reading about tachyphylaxis this morning and I wonder if I'm postponing some serious symptoms with these tiny doses. But I feel so much better than I did a few days ago, and I'm taking so much less than I was a week ago, that I believe this is working.
 
A week or two if loperamide shouldn't result in withdrawal from that. Your GI system will take a bit longer to get back to normal after you stop taking the loperamide - that is really the only issue outside of the unexpected.
 
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Thanks for all your replies this past week, @toothpastedog. I took 0.25 doses today between two sessions, 0.5 oz poppy seeds total. I know I'm on the other side now. Took another 4 mg loperamide at 7:00 and I'm definitely jumping off tomorrow. My 7-day total consumption after today is still 6 doses (12 oz seeds), but that is down from 23 doses (prev 7 days) when I made my first post. Even if I take nothing from here on out, that number won't be 0 until Sept 19. Following my 3-day usage, in retrospect, is a better predictor of how I'd feel on a given day, but the 7-day usage seems to be the most important in terms of where I am in the process.

My 30-day usage, after today, is still 102.5 doses (3.4 doses/day), and my 60-day is 192.5 doses (3.2 doses/day). Still a lot to "clear" from my life, but the crisis is over. Thanks again to everyone who replied.
 
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The way you are documenting and going about this with such clear comprehension will continue to be an invaluable tool IME. Give yourself time to heal. I'm confident you'll figure it out for yourself. Can't ask for more than that :)
 
I'm a data person by trade, and I've been tracking my daily alcohol usage since 10/21/2011, haven't missed a day. It was simple to create a new spreadsheet for the PST, and I already had all the charts set up. If I could give anyone any advice on substance use, it would be to keep diligent, honest records about your usage. You don't have to show anyone, so there is no point to being dishonest. Once you have the data, you can start visualizing it over time, and then make adjustments to your life based on the charts. It'll never be perfect, like most data gathering, so you just have to do your best. Your best is good enough.

Went for a run this morning... I'm shocked how much I let myself go this summer. I knew abstractly that lung performance starts to decrease in as soon as 72 hours of inactivity, but regular exercise has been my anchor for over a decade now and It's been a long time since I let myself go like this. Ran / walked my regular 3 mile loop in about 40 min, Yikes!

Still having GI problems, you were right about that! Took 4 mg loperamide at 10:30, and I can handle the rest with some pot. Today is day 0, I guess!
 
MarginalProphet said:
If I could give anyone any advice on substance use, it would be to keep diligent, honest records about your usage. You don't have to show anyone, so there is no point to being dishonest. Once you have the data, you can start visualizing it over time, and then make adjustments to your life based on the charts. It'll never be perfect, like most data gathering, so you just have to do your best. Your best is good enough.
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Well said :)

Glad to hear you are getting back into exercise. That is so helpful in so many ways.
 
Update: Made it through the day with no poppy seeds. Sniffling, sneezing, mild fatigue are the worst symptoms... The mental stuff is gone. On a walk today, I smelled the trees for the first time in over a week. I'm starting to feel normal again. I've been a little more emotionally unstable in the last few days (spontaneous crying, etc), but honestly that's how I am normally at times. I can deal with the physical stuff, which is very mild at this point.

Of course I've thought about taking another real dose, to say goodbye, feel it again, get a good night's sleep, whatever, but I think I'm going to be able to resist that between now and Saturday, when I get away from it for a full three weeks. I think so. I've been trying to associate past week's misery, in my mind, with me using. Sometimes it seems real, sometimes like a sham, but I've got enough momentum to stay away for another few days, unless somehow the symptoms get way worse.
 
Sorry I feel behind, but ya 8 mg isn't anything to worry about.

Edit :if you have an impacted stool (a piece of poo to big to crap) use miralax for a few days, watch the fiber intake as you don't need to bulk it up more although still intake some, and use miralax {propyl glycol 80 or something). It will soften out by causing it to absorb water without irritating the bowels.
 
Thanks, @tacodude! No impacted poop! I think I'm taking just enough loperamide to keep the shits at bay, but even so, it feels like a war is being waged in my gut. The loperamide helps, but I feel like I'm on the edge of the shits at all times. Just really uncomfortable, especially after breakfast. A little pot works wonders for me, thankfully. I've been drinking 200 ml (4 drinks) of vodka every night also, which definitely isn't *helping* with my stomach, even though it's not traditionally enough to make me feel bad. It's more than I've had in a long time.

Went on another run this morning, made it 19 minutes before walking this time and 33 minutes home. It feels good to sweat from exercise.

It's almost 48 hours since I had any poppy seeds.

I had a lot more written and then lost it because I am not good with this website.
 
tacodude said:
Try cutting out the vodka. Congrats on the 48 hours. By try I mean do
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Very well.

Made it 22 minutes on my run this morning, 29 minutes total to home. Getting a little better every day. Still don't really feel normal, but I do feel more normal than yesterday. Bad insomnia is the worst of it now. Mild GI stiff. Will try to get by on 4 mg loperamide today. No seeds yesterday. It'll be 72 hours here pretty soon.
 
Well, today is my flight. I've gone 3 days with zero seed use. My 7-day use is at 2.25 doses total. The last time I went away back in Feb, my 3-day usage was 5.5 doses and 7 day was 13 doses, so I am definitely in a better place to walk away from it now than I was then.

I'll be travelling all day, and I'm giving half a thought to taking 1/2 a dose before we leave, just to bind me up a little. I know that I'll have no chance to make any tea while I am away, so it doesn't seem like a terrible idea. I keep waiting for some other shoe to drop WRT withdrawal, but it sure does seem like I put the real work in this past 1.5 weeks and things are only going to improve from here. I had my first moment of "I feel normal" yesterday, although the insomnia is still pretty bad. I wake up around 2 AM with basically no hope of falling back asleep.

Knowing that I had a deadline made this really easy for me to do, in a way. Going through withdrawals in a strange place on a putative vacation was unacceptable so I just had to do it here at home. But I haven't addressed what I'm going to do when I get back home in 3 weeks. I don't know if you could call my use/abuse pattern complicated, but it's more complicated than just the PST. I will die from alcoholism if I continue to drink the way I have in my youth. At 40, my body cannot handle it anymore, but I am unable to drink like a normal person. The PST makes it easy for me to say no. Alcohol is positively barbaric by comparison. My fantasy is to be able to use the PST as an alternative in social situations where I'd otherwise be tempted to drink. My research into chipping (which was a new word for me this week) did not turn up very much good news. I want to believe it's possible, but in honesty, I have never been able to control any substance I've ever used. I've got a lot to think about.

Does anyone reading this participate in a SMART program? It seems like something I might find useful. AA is too preachy for me (I know it's worked for many), but the SMART system seems a little more... secular for my taste.

Thanks again to everyone who read and/or replied to my posts this past week. I have no support system in my real life, so it was very helpful to be here.
 
I would recommend not making the last dose if you are feeling better. It might not set you back, but why risk it. The 3 day mark is usually a tricky spot, but give it 5 days at least if you can.
 
Hey, MP.

When you say 'chipping' do you mean PST? I usually think of that as something one does with heroin, but maybe that's just me. Unfortunately, for the large majority, chipping usually evolves into something problematic. With PST it *could* be different, of course. And only you can be the judge of that. But...I think it's really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. I.e. If you've become addicted to a substance/behavior, paring back to casual use is super hard.

As to your question about SMART: I did some of their meetings when I was pretty early in recovery. SMART never really floated my boat. It wasn't bad. Just not my thing. But at that point I was rather fond of NA (which I always found more tolerable than AA). Have you ever tried an NA meeting? I'm absolutely not promoting NA. I have some big quibbles with them now. But they are quite different from AA, culturally speaking. And I think they have some stuff of value to offer. Just a thought.
 
I heard the same thing any NA. I went to PA meeting in detox and was a bit more fond of it
 
Tacodude -- Funny how life works sometimes. I actually went out and measured a 1/2 dose for myself right after I posted, but when I brought it back into the house, I discovered my wife was already awake, earlier than usual, to get ready for our flight. So I ditched the seeds down the toilet, read your reply and took 2 mg loperamide instead. That's all I took yesterday, besides some pot chocolate I brought along with me. I didn't drink any booze yesterday either, for the first time in 9 days, since I really started the taper in earnest.

It was a long day of travel, and we have a infant now with all the attendant baggage and support gear, but everything went as smoothly as you could ask. The little guy slept all the way there; even so, we were exhausted when we finally got to the house around midnight. I slept like a baby last night for the first time in weeks, 6 solid hours of sleep. I feel fantastic this morning: rested, clear-headed, 100% normal. I feel like myself again.

simco -- Sorry if I misused the word "chipping". I thought it referred generally to someone who believes they are using their DOC casually, recreationally, intermittently. You may be right that it normally refers to heroin, but I meant PST. Of course these things are easy to say, but I know I'll never use heroin. I'm old now, with no connections to that world, and my days of chasing waterfalls are over. The tea is much more suited for my lifestyle and temperament: slow onset and long-lasting, with gradual comedown that I don't even notice. More importantly, it completely arrests my desire to drink. In any event, I'll be away from it for the next 3 weeks, so I've got some time to think about how / whether it belongs in my life at all, given the fact that I let it slide into dependence over the course of 2017. It really snuck up on me.

Thank you both also for your impressions on SMART, AA, NA, PA. I guess there's no harm in trying a few. The 12 steps and higher power stuff really just turn me off. I've never been enough of a structured person to do 12 steps of anything :) I'll look into local chapters when I get back. I know there's a SMART meeting once a week near my house, so it would be an easy first thing.
 
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