Cotcha Yankinov
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2015
- Messages
- 2,952
1.- Why can't you reverse your point? addiction is a psychosocial disease despite has brain correlates? When I say it is not a brain disease I mean that with the current state of science we don't have enough knkowledge to think addiction in brain terms in a useful way for the people who are suffering. Imagine you are dealing with an addict. Will you talk about orbitofrontal cortex or about families, friends and hope?
Once again I have to reiterate that there is evidence that the OFC dysfunction is causal and not just correlative. Your reference #5 also talks about neuropsychiatric co-morbidity being a large driver of addiction and there is much research showing that such neuropsychiatric conditions are also "brain diseases".
The matter of what I would say to an individual addict, the family, or where I would choose to put funds are three different matters. It makes sense to talk with an addict about the reasons they have to stop using, what they stand to lose if they keep using et cetera.
But if I had the choice between putting 10 billion dollars into funding research into ibogaine derivatives or 10 billion dollars into increasing availability of CBT to addicts/reasoning with them about what they have to lose, I would go with research into ibogaine derivatives. This is partly because of potency differences between the two therapy modalities, but also because many addicts keep on using even though they're aware that they are losing everything (they are simply unable to stop using), and many addicts have already lost everything (Its hard to motivate them to get sober and withstand withdrawals/cravings for their family if they have none).
See here, when you 'destory' me you go to the psychosocial view of addiction, being willing to lose health family and money. Thats the discourse I believe explains better addiction and not the changes in orbitofrontal cortex seen in skewed models of addicted rats.
I think there is some resistance to reduce psychology down to biology here. See your earlier quote regarding love as well.
If we believe that its the biology that produces the psychology, then psychology can be viewed as a more abstracted and intuitive phenomenon rather than something completely separate from the biology, a summary of the biology put into an intuitive framework if you will.
Being willing to lose family/health/finances can be mapped onto biology in specific manners that aren't very intuitive, nor very satisfactory for the average person (increased dendritic arborization is not satisfactory to Joe Average), or it could be mapped onto psychology in a more intuitive manner that is less objective. There are of course benefits to viewing phenomenon in different manners.
Subjectively, we know why addicts should choose family/health/finances over drugs, but subjectively the addicts often have little idea why they keep repeating their behavior. However there are objective/scientific reasons for their behavior that are useful to understand, because they help us develop therapies.
There is much more than just animal research showing that OFC circuitry is involved in the pathology of addiction. If you want more human research, see for example
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2767245/
https://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v26/n1/full/1395777a.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3462342/
You may dismiss the animal literature as not being relevant to humans but taking into account the full body of empirical evidence and the known function of OFC/prefrontal circuitry in healthy humans and dysfunction of OFC in other disorders (we can go as far back as Phineas Gage), the animal studies are still very useful. Especially for outright determining causality/eliminating confounders.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435881/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15585037 -
"The current literature suggests that in addition to the brain's reward system, two frontal cortical regions (anterior cingulate and orbitofrontal cortices), critical in inhibitory control over reward-related behaviour, are dysfunctional in addicted individuals. These same regions have been implicated in other compulsive conditions characterized by deficits in inhibitory control over maladaptive behaviours, such as obsessive-compulsive disorder.
CONCLUSIONS:
We propose that in chronically addicted individuals, maladaptive behaviours and high relapse rates may be better conceptualized as being 'compulsive' in nature as a result of dysfunction within inhibitory brain circuitry, particularly during symptomatic states. This model may help to explain why some addicts lose control over their drug use, and engage in repetitive self-destructive patterns of drug-seeking and drug-taking that takes place at the expense of other important activities.
This model may also have clinical utility, as it allows for the adoption of treatments effective in other disorders of inhibitory dysregulation."
You'll see I included more human neuroimaging studies aboveYour citations refer to studies with rats and monkeys, except the one of Nora Volkow, wich is in PET. Nora recognized in a supplement of an article published in the BJM last year (the second reference I give in the first post) that most of the addicted brains are like the normal brains and despite there are significant differences with healthy controls there are not out of the range of normality. She says this is due to the limited technology we have now, and I believe so.
Volkow has written more recently on the neurobiology of addiction here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27475769
I suggest we acknowledge that instruments like PET/fMRI are relatively blunt and low resolution but there are still valid differences in the brains of addicts and healthy controls that seem to be causal of addiction.
If we had more studies on the so-called "microstructural" differences then we wouldn't need to be discussing gross metabolism/volume differences or differences in e.g. receptor expression, but our in-vivo imaging technology/body of research is progressing rapidly and we'll also have more and more post-mortem analyses as time goes on. That is to say that neuroscience is still in its infancy and shouldn't be expected to have all the answers/evidence yet, therefore any absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28485734
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28367515 - "Our findings indicate similar white-matter microstructural alterations across addictions that cannot be attributed solely to exposure to drugs or alcohol and thus may be a vulnerability mechanism for addictive disorders"
I'd also want to add that the main risk factor for having problems with drugs is poor education, low income, and not being white (I could not give evidence of the last one). Of course the way your brain is wired matters, some of that you are born with and some of that is built on education and family. Anyway, I'd not want to offend white well-educated people who have problems with drugs, there is a lot of other factors, but when we refer to a crisis and massive problems I think the main maintaining causes are poverty, poor education and lack of attractive alternatives to drug use.
I just want to reiterate that societal and environmental causes of a disease don't make that disease any less of a brain disease. As an example, it could be that poor education/chronic stress results in hypofunction of the OFC circuitry, and partly hence the increased risk of addiction with poverty - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4330514/
"The Long-Term Impact of Early Life Poverty on Orbitofrontal Cortex Volume in Adulthood: Results from a Prospective Study Over 25 Years"
We can talk about the etiology of addiction too, but this thread was not about the etiology but rather whether the state of addiction itself is a brain disease. Preventing people from becoming addicts by increasing upward social mobility et cetera is a fabulous idea but that doesn't do too much for the millions and millions of people around the globe who are already addicted, who, I hate to say, are part of the problem in terms of giving children crappy childhoods and increasing their kids likelihood of becoming an addict.
So you can look at it this way - many people who become addicts have addicts for parents. This could be partly due to the various neurobiological adverse effects of having an addict for a parent. That means that correcting the parent's active addiction with biological therapies is one avenue to reduce the risk of the child becoming an addict in the future. So treating people who are actively addicted with a biological therapy can help reduce the creation of future addicts.
To say nothing of the fact that correcting our society's fundamental flaws is a... rather large undertaking. Whereas a fairly successful anti-addiction drug could be right around the corner for all we know. I'm speaking in particular of ibogaine derivatives and drugs that have similar mechanisms of action.