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Life after Dissociatives: How do you feel and what are you doing about it?

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
84,999
These last 2.5 years I have been using dissociatives heavily. To give you an idea I've gone through 25 g of DCK, 8 g of 3-MeO-PCP, 10-15 g DXM, 0.75 g 3-MeO-PCE, 1 g diphenedine, 1 g MXP and about 300-500 nitrous chargers. I know there are people out there that use dissociatives more heavily but this is a lot. It took me a while to get to the point where I could function well on the high doses of dissociatives I was taking. I gotta say, I really enjoyed them and I would get anxious about my difficulty stopping the train once it got in motion. So long as I had them in stock it took will power stronger than I had to stop for more than a few days.

Well, I've been a month sober now and I plan on staying this way for at least 4 more months. That was my commitment. Then I'll reevaluate. I was experiencing some really amazing states while on the dissociatives. I would wonder to myself "where is the down side in all this?" If you've read some of my posts you know I've been a student and practitioner of spiritual disciplines for a while now so the following insight may not appeal to you but was very powerful for me. Well, here is the insight I had. It's our inner child that is the gatekeeper to the vibrational/spiritual realities. A frightened inner child will not allow us to experience these realities. Dissociatives bypass the inner child by essentially drugging him so that these spiritual realities are more accessible. That was the main appeal for me though I wasn't aware of it at the time. Once I saw that I didn't want to do it anymore, I decided I was going to make life changes.

So, nothing psychoactive for 5 months, not even refined sugar or coffee. It's been an adjustment. I can't say I'm where I want to be right now. My diet has degraded some. I don't have the patience to prepare the super-healthy meals I used to eat and so I've gained 10 pounds. I struggle to complete my spiritual practices. I still meditate daily and do other practices, but I spend only 20 minutes a day now on this as compared to 1:30 - 2 hrs daily doing practices when I was using. My practices don't culminate in powerful experiences as they often did on dissociatives. My cognition is fine. My memory has improved a bit and I make fewer mistakes when I talk now that I'm sober but I get less pleasure from my own intelligence if that makes sense. When I was using dissociatives if I said something funny or witty I'd get a lot more pleasure from it, so I did it more often and more effortlessly. Being social takes more effort. Never was a social butterfly even on dissociatives but when I was around other people it felt very spontaneous and fun. Now it is a bit more subdued. Also my production of music feels less inspired. I learned how to sing on dissociatives and now I don't enjoy my voice as much and my music feel more flat.

On the pro side. I am much more authentic in everything I do. It's just me. Nothing else. I take a lot of pleasure in that. There is nothing to hide. No negotiating drug usage in my own head. Like I said earlier, my inner child has been neglected in all this. Finally I can be a responsible parent to my inner experience. That's important to me even if it sounds like psychobabble to you.

So to summarize I'm doing alright, moving in the direction I want for myself but life lost its sparkle and I want it back.

As far as addressing the neurological changes I've been looking for some good tools. So far I've been using Shankhapushpi powder, Ashwagandha and Bacopa which are all Ayurvedic herbs for mental function, stress, energy and alertness. I'm also using Rhodiola Rodea as well. I've also been experiementing with flower essences but too soon to report my finding on this yet. I haven't been exercising and I know that would do wonders for me. I'm still dragging my feet on that. Life feels harder now, but I'll get to it eventually.

So, now that I've shared with you the effects of heavy dissociative use in my life, I'm curious to hear about it in your own. How did you feel during and after? What worked for you to live dissociative free? What supplements etc did you use to address any neurological changes your dissociative use may have triggered? Curious to hear your replies.
 
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I haven't been exercising and I know that would do wonders for me. I'm still dragging my feet on that. Life feels harder now, but I'll get to it eventually.

I get a lot of joy out of simply walking around my neighborhood, and hiking on the creekside trail near my house. It's easier for me to get motivated to walk than to pump iron at the gym, because I get to breathe fresh air, and experience all the lovely sights and sounds and aromas of the world. :)

How did you feel during and after?

I used MXE multiple times a day, multiple days a week, for a good while back in 2011-2012 (compared to some, my use was relatively light). I was perfectly happy with that lifestyle, until I started noticing symptoms of bladder damage. After I quit, MXE left a HUGE hole in my emotional wellbeing. I felt like my soul had been ripped out of me. I was numb, to both pain and pleasure. It took years before I felt largely recovered, and I'm still not sure I ever got back 100% to my old self. Maybe I never will.

But that's okay. Ultimately I have no regrets. MXE caused some positive changes in me, too. I think it helped me overcome the severe anxiety that I used to suffer when I was younger. And I have a lot of great memories of wonderful experiences on the substance. :) I also found it to be a useful tool in my spiritual quest.

What worked for you to live dissociative free?

Feeling random shooting pains in my bladder whenever I drank a glass of water or took a piss.

What supplements etc did you use to address any neurological changes your dissociative use may have triggered?

I didn't use any supplements. I assumed that diet, exercise, and sleep would be enough.
 
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Thanks Applecore, great advice on the taking walks. That might be a much more mellow way to get the exercise my body wants. Normally I'd be jogging but guess I just don't feel like it right now; I have a tendency to make things more difficult than they need to be so I don't do either. I loved to jog on dissociatives. Forgot to mention that. Got really good at focusing on my form so that the jogging was almost like a meditation. Weather is still nice these days. I think I'll take your advice on that. Maybe start jogging at a later date.

I also abused MXE in 2011-2012 and have to admit I was a lot more depressed back then when I quit than I am now. Back then I was a lot less conscious about my dissociative usage and quitting hit me harder. My abuse of MXE was more short lived, more manic, less sustainable and I was redosing all the time. It's the redosing that is particularly detrimental with dissociative use. That's what MXE taught me. As vortech says in his book (and I'm paraphrasing), MXE is like a bell, you gotta hit it and let it ring out. If you keep hitting the bell you create dissonance. I'm guessing I consumed about 20-25 g of MXE back in the day. I did a lot less redosing this time around but my doses got really large like 40-50 mg of 3-MeO-PCP or more towards the end. Don't get me started on DCK, I could go through a gram in a day if I started redosing.
 
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Great thread. Kudos to you levels, thats a mighty achievement.
i dont have much else to really add except keep your focus, its a great amount your achieving by remaining with same interest while sober, even if they have lessened.
 
Hey, I only discovered dissociatives this year but I freaking love them and I know where you're coming from. There's just something about drugging that inner child...

I feel like I'm getting to the point where I'm using them too much and I don't want to be psychologically dependent on them. I see the feeling bleeding into my day and affecting my activities. It's interesting that you say you learned to sing on dissos because I am a singer and I've noticed that I have less control over my voice on days after I do dissociatives. I have inferred that it may have something to do with muscle relaxation- I just don't have the control or focus that I need. But there are other things too. Like, driving seems dangerous for a WHOLE day after a night of DCK, so I've come to avoid that situation altogether.

Another thing about dissociatives that gets me is this: The anti-depressant effects are dose-dependent. Like, with ketamine I came to notice that if I use it once or twice a week, I feel happier in general. But when it gets to be like every day or every other day I feel that the anti-depressant effects reverse. I start to feel more bogged down, more "fuzzy" and apathetic. Things still feel fluid and smooth, but not in a gratifying way.

I know this post was about stopping dissociatives, not the experience of doing them. Sorry- it was a thought-provoking post so I wanted to chime in. I've mostly ever had experience with Ketamine. Some with 3meo-pce and 3-meo-pcp. And lately I've been getting into DCK in lieu of ketamine (jeez, way more of a commitment.) In the last year, I think the longest break I've taken was about 3 weeks (but not in a premeditated way, I just didn't happen to do any) and I started to feel stuck. I felt like, that feeling of friction where you lose touch with the synchronicity that dissociatives bring. I felt a lot more bummed out about the hum-drum of every day life. But I think I may have felt less confused and more lucid. I definitely felt more in-control. And that is why I want to congratulate you on your quest to find clarity. The dissociative journey is very healing and cleansing although I can see in myself and reflected in the world that there is a tendency to get lost in it. You start to lose touch with yourself in an effort to GET in touch with yourself. And I think the key to smart disso use is balance although it can be hard to find when you're knee-deep in it. That's why it sounds to me like a great idea to give yourself a goal of 4 months of clarity. I think it is an excellent idea to reassess at that point, and to see if you CAN find that balance. Although I am no expert, and in fact NOBODY is an expert. We have to remind ourselves that dissociatives are so new that there is no shamanistic approach to their use. There are no spiritual norms or religious rites or guidelines or ceremonies put in place to guide their usage. So don't be too hard on yourself for going overboard. I think you're on the right path.

Much love and wishing you inner peace,
Lauren

P.S. lol I'm seeing now that your post was from August but I'm gonna post this reply anyway. Wherever you are on your quest, you are in the right place. I hope you can do what's right for you!

Also aerobic exercise has pretty much saved MY life so get yo heart pumpin, foo
 
To paraphrase and ensure I'm comprehending (not always these days) you say you've done all those dissociatives over 2.5 years? I've only maybe 15-20 g ketamine and under 1.5g 3meopcp over 17 years to compare. Oh, and one bummer and another dose of the O-pce.

Anyway, you say you are a month from your last dose and eating better? You also said you had some neurological changes but did not elaborate, and are taking some herbs I'm not familiar with?

I love dissociatives though these days its infrequent, if less than once a year, but I'd never give em up. They can be healthy for the body and mind depending on the need (and dose and frequency).

How was the o-pcm? I really want to try it!

Edit: I had some mania with that first gram 3-MeO-Pcp...I swear all the other stuff (up to a half a gram) was somehow different, no "mania" but I can never say for sure what was gifted those times.

I'm convinced I got the real deal in 2014 cause you just have to trust me. It didn't last long (the mania) and was great for interviews and yard work....not that I'd recommend it (I don't).

The O-pce was weird. All the bad things they say can happen did.

Thank you Allah and B that madness was kept safe in the name of science. Won't touch that one again. To do so would demonstrate a level of stupidity I choose to avoid.
 
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What made me stop ketamine was getting sick during a weekend of abuse 11 years ago. My mind got a flash that if I continued ket, my life would be stuck at the same place. I did ket only one time after that. I moved, got back to school and a new job. I also had some kind of Kundalini awakening free of drugs 2 years ago.
 
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Yup, those numbers are real. I ain't proud of it. The lack of sleep is what gets you in the end. And the ringing in the ears and the musical theme song playing back that doesn't quit on and on. All that. stupidity is pretty accurate. I'm not proud of my hard headedness. Yeah, 3-MeO-PCP is a difficult one to abuse. You build a callous to it over time like all things but it affects you. It's o-pcm I really want but it's hard to find these days. Miss that one. The euphoria was fuller. The impairment was probably just as bad if not worse though. Combined with exercise, it gave a sparkle that was hard to deny and some pretty indescribable experiences. I'm sure the people around me didn't like it as much as I did even though it made putting up with them easier.

I'm not trying to glamorize it, just gotta stay positive. Made it 4 months actually totally sober living like a monk from when this was posted. Then I slipped up on my discipline which started a chain reaction. Now I'm using 3-MeO-PCP daily again and looking for the exit, again. Gave my skull a good bonking this time around too. Oh yeah, I'm impaired. I can really feel it. It's remarkable brains can manifest what they do, and there's no off switch for this weirdness. Maybe later I'll give a more accurate retrospective on what the changes are but worse probably sums it up pretty good all said. The singing thing is true for me with dissociatives I feel. Who knows, maybe it's subjective, but I don't think so. The way my voice sounds is deeper and fuller and more expressive, I wish I could always sing that way. If I practice for a long time I can start to really relax into and get close but its hard to compare the resonance I get.
 
It's hard to quit dissociatives. I dreamed about ket for several months.
 
I abused MXE like no other for quite a while, at its most extreme about a gram a day for over a year, holing 6-7 times per night, every night. 5pm-5am, a dissociative circus in my apartment.

Eventually all rivers that led to (quality) MXE dried up and I was forced into quitting cold turkey. It wasn't anything like opiate withdrawal, but it was long. It was literally months of feeling unenthused, empty, passionless, totally bored with everything. There were no physical withdrawal symptoms, it was all mental. Despite how long this dullness in my brain persisted, it wasn't difficult to deal with.. I wasn't depressed or anything, just mindnumbingly bored.

After about a year of no dissociatives I started testing the 'MXE replacements' (I know people hate hearing these newer dissociatives called that, but that's just how I think of them) and none of them came anywhere remotely close. 3-meo-pcp, o-pce. dxe, 3-meo-pce, etc. All of them fell so short it wasn't even funny. Luckily, because I found these 'replacements' so uninteresting or off-putting, I found it easy to continue on with my dissociative-free life -- occasionally peeking around to see if an anticipated new batch of MXE had arrived to the world.

The main thing I'll say about dissociatives: learn from them. They're not like opiates where you have to take them all the time. Even with MXE gone, the things it taught me about life and about myself are still with me. I'm such a better person for my insanity with MXE. The reason I was able to binge so hard on MXE is because I'm self employed and my work takes up very little of my time. The ideas and business plans MXE-induced mania gave me was channeled into my business and the result is I'm sitting here doing better than I ever imagined. I 100% attribute the growth in my life to MXE. I wrote over 600 pages of handwritten notes during my MXE binge and to this day I'm still putting those ideas into practice with great results.

So long story short, to answer the title of this thread: life after dissociatives is great. It's different. The person I was when I entered my MXE binge was still wearing the training wheels of life. The person who sits typing this message has removed those training wheels. I know that always doing the 'right thing' is the only way forward.
 
Fantastic post, send. I would love to read that handwritten, MXE-fueled pages
 
Great post, and congrats on 1 month sober! have you noticed any bladder issues? Jw because you've done a good amount so your anecdote on it is of value to a lot of people. I only notice bladder issues when I'm doing them a lot, but thankfully it seems to clear up during breaks.

Personally I started doing dissociatives ~7 yrs ago. The first 4 yrs of that I mostly did DXM every few weeks, more or less. It was amazing at first, the euphoria at times was incredible and the headspace could be spiritual and extremely novel, but mainly because it helped me so much socially. I never really used it for multiple days in a row. Haven't done it in a few years now, it became dysphoric, dull, I became turned off by chugging cough syrup and found more practical alternatives.

About 3 yrs ago I got really into RC dissos, mainly MXE, but I've also done good amounts of K, DCK, 3-MeO-PCP, & N2O over the past few years along with smaller amounts of stuff like 3-Meo-PCE, O-PCE, EPE. Just estimating I'd say I've gone through 35-45g of MXE (hard to say exactly cause there were time periods that were such a blur and I've shared with friends as well), a few grams of DCK, 10-12g of K, a few grams of 3-MeO-PCP, a couple grams of EPE, and probably a few hundred N2O chargers.

I've had some great times on 3-MeO-PCP, and some of the others, but the majority of my experiences with the RC dissos have been "meh". Maybe that's because I was always trying to replace MXE with them. K is generally pretty enjoyable but with my tolerance it's hard to get the experience I want.

MXE was amazing though. The first time I tried a good batch it felt so perfect. Then I started plugging it which felt like rolling on MDMA at first, plugging it is when I really started having a problem doing it constantly (and with dissos in general). I couldn't wait until my next hole. I would get off work and come home and hole all night into the morning. Eventually I couldn't hole on it anymore and if I dosed too high i would just black out, but that didn't happen until after at least a year of doing it all the time.

This year I finally realized I have to stop doing dissociatives all the time because I started realizing more and more the deleterious effects they were having on me when I did them all the time. Few examples:

1. During or after a binge I would start thinking I was seeing something specific out of the corner of my eye, like a cat. Or I would look directly at an object like a bag, but in my brain it would register as a cat. This would happen constantly, especially in the days after.

2. I would start getting random pains throughout my body, seemingly in a different place every single time. They would last for a day or so and then go away, but while they lasted they felt like a real pain and really hurt. This would happen during and after when I did it it everyday for a week or more, sometimes sooner.

3. Extreme muscle tightness, generally in lower back, shoulder, or calf. It would generally be related to one side at a time and I could feel the muscle tightened up to a high degree to the point of pain. I stay pretty hydrated but it could still be related to dehydration.

4. Extreme moods swings upon cessation of an extended usage period.

5. Hair-loss, yes I've pretty much isolated that dissociatives cause me hair-loss. I'm not bald and it's not obvious but my hair-line has receded a bit over the past few years. Some of it I think is due to heredity and stress. But since I started with longer breaks I noticed that my hair stopped falling out. And I've noticed that when I come off of doing them for a week or even a few days, my hair starts falling out like crazy. Perhaps it has something to do with fluctuating Serotonin levels and I'm just more susceptible to it due to heredity.

6. Extremely low metabolism while on binges. I would become bloated, and also backed up possibly from always using plugging as ROA. I never noticed this until the past year or so, but maybe I just started paying more attention.

7. Hypertension during and in the days that follow

8. OCD-like symptoms and paranoia about irrational things.

And I have done better this year, I've had 2x ~3 month periods this year I went straight through w/o a single disso, I also had 1-2x 1 month periods where I did the same. When I do do them, I use way less. I'll do a few a doses and even if I don't get where I wanted, I call it a night and get my sleep.

I know I probably sound crazy for even continuing to do dissos. But without them I feel like I get stuck in rut, and life seems so dull and boring. Maybe that's still a bit of anhedonia (one of the worst side-effect of abuse) that hasn't cleared up. I did do them 2 of the past four weeks after like a 3 month break and life feels a lot more , I don't know how to describe it. I just feel like I'm living and not thinking about everything. Thankfully I (somehow) have maintained a great job and my fiancee is very supportive, so it's not that bad when I'm off them, things just gradually start to seem more monotonous.

As far as supplements I find 2500mg omega-3 in the days after seems to quickly clear up my brain fog. I also take a multivitamin, and try to get a lot of antioxidants. Veggies, fruits, protein, and avoid processed food because it will make you feel like shit. Me and My so both credit with MXE completely changing our diet early last year. I used to eat fast food for every meal and now I eat salads, nuts, smoothies, etc. all the time.

Exercise is a must, lift weights or go hiking, riding bikes is great too. Or pick up a sport. You should really be exercising at least a couple hours a day. If you start lifting it will really motivate you to quit, because ime it is very hard to bulk up while doing dissos all the time.

Also, I find the first 2-3 days without are the most difficult. After that the "urge" to do more kind of fades away. Try leaving it with a friend where you can't immediately access it and tell them not to give it back for a certain time period. Make sure you it's not trivial to access it immediately, because you will probably try to connive your way into getting it back. These "urges" can come and go but they usually pass fairly quickly if you immerse yourself in another activity. Also you may comedown at night and say you don't want anymore, you may even believe that, but it's best to assume that your mind will change in the morning.

Thankfully dissos for me seem to have came to a point where they are somewhat self-limiting due to long-term tolerance. It's hard for to go deep with them anymore, and they aren't nearly as recreational anymore anyways. It's a little bit easier to control when holing all night isn't an option anymore. I do still very much enjoy the "anti-depressant" they give in the days and weeks afterwards though. Hopefully going forward I can use them in whatever way results in the most sustainable and useful way possible, even if that means quitting altogether.
 
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Welp. I wrote to my go-to vendor yesterday, asking them to blacklist
me for this entire year, to which they gracefully consented.

Still got some hundreds of mgs of 3-Meo-PCE + O-PCE so it is now
a matter of easing out into the post-dissociative era.

Happy new year friends.
 
well, it has been a few months since i ran outta my last stash of disso (3-meo-pcp), and here is my take:

i feel as though i have bettered myself through using dissociatives. although i still get angry, depressed, and anxious, there are still moments that i look toward the sky and remember that the world is such a beautiful, awe-inspiring place, despite the negative outliers that the media wants me to focus on. ketamine first showed me this attitude, and i try to keep it close to my heart as much as i can.

i also feel stronger and more confident in my abilities, and am more brave in speaking my mind. my girlfriend feels she has also bettered herself in these two regards, and cites dissociatives as a large part of it.

i miss them, but sobriety calls my name.
 
Aw, post dissociative is like a breath of fresh air that takes about a year to inhale. But there's always the next round of the next generations even more highly refined NDMA antagonist gold analogues of the classics. They have altered my physiology, my mentality and outlook and personality permanently in a way I am very grateful for. Surely do miss the real 3-meo-pcp (crystal) and dislike the white fluff versions which I believe currently are tiletamine-4 analogues. Original MXE, MXM, 3-meo-pcp, DCK, o-pce are to me the pinnacles of medicine and science, fusing the best elements of every drug class including stimulant, opioid, entheogen, psychedelic, antidepressant, and nootropic amongst others into a single non physical dependence forming low dose substitute. Hasn't ceased to amaze me yet, and surely never will.
 
Life seems to have lost its sparkle. Dunno how much that is due to disso abuse.. but it was sure fun being on that 3-MeO-PCP train. I started using dissociatives with MXE and had amazing times with it. Those first holes - words can't convey. After it disappeared I had a break but found 3-meo-pcp. It was totally different beast to MXE.. and I feel it forced me to quit dissociatives because I ended up having a psychotic break. Almost 2 years without dissos if you don't count 1.5 grams of ketamine - which didn't give the magic I was looking for. It's weird to look back to those times when using a lot of dissos because it seems insane. But it didn't feel so wrong at the time. Miss them for sure but I'm pretty sure that door should stay closed.
 
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