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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

15mg 4-AcO-DMT - First time - Contemplation of the reasons for existence. (Suicidal)

ATriumphForHuman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2016
Messages
27
Preface: 23 year old male, poor mental health (severe anxiety, suicidal ideation, depressive episodes; also potential autism (asperger's diagnosis by hx) and (complex?) PTSD (exposure to family neglect/abuse as young teenager; had atypical reaction which led me to nearly or completely suppress any symptoms of trauma). Backstory behind the cause of these issues is too long; I essentially feel like I'll never be fulfilled in life, and I can't emotionally handle it, which has led to strong suicidal ideation.


Not the first time I've taken psychedelic drugs or substances. First time was back in June, 30ug ALD-52 microdose. Had three other experiences with that particular substance: two 10ug microdoses, and one 100ug trip. Also had three experiences with MXE: two 24mg doses and one 32 mg dose.


Had this 4-AcO-DMT trip last night (technically early yesterday morning) on quite a full stomach; had dinner and a snack a couple hours before.


(Also: apologies for the terseness of this report. My memory is quite scattered, since ADHD symptoms are present in my life as well.)

__________________________________________


12:45am: Take the substance orally, 15mg.


1:40am: Start feeling drowsy, kind of awkward physically. I'm watching a Twitch stream at this time.


2:00/2:15-ish: Start feeling a weird euphoria; have this shit grin that I can't get off my face, have an urge to laugh my ass off, but I don't. Start having this weird pulsing feeling in my head, feels like I'm trying to get myself to pass out; it's a mild sensation, though. Overall, my perception starts becoming more conceptual, but not so much in a philosophical way as much as in a very personal (yet detached), absurdist way.


2:45-ish: Start noticing mild visual effects. The contents on my computer screen (Twitch broadcast) start morphing together into pixels to an extent. I look at the person who's streaming, and his head looked like it was loose. I look away from my screen and notice a similar sensation, but it's able to go away. I look back at my screen and it's no longer present, but a few minutes later it returns.


3:30-ish: Stop watching the stream, go out to use the bathroom. The noise the hallway fan makes sounds different, dark rooms appear much more ominous. Specs of dirt on the floor are more noticeable in a way; they look like bugs or something other than dirt from a distance. At this point I assume I'm peaking, or at least close.

I go back into my room, and start listening to music. I wanted to listen to one of my favorite albums, one I've loved dearly for the past year. Haven't heard it in about a month, so I thought it'd be interesting to hear it again but with this altered perception. As soon as I turn it on I'm immersed in the music at a deeper level; the rhythms sound more melodic. In a way it sounds like I'm rediscovering it, even though at the same time I'm too familiar with it. Certain details of musical structure are more enhanced, some of which I'm appreciating more than usual. The third track originally gets very shoegazy (in a space rock/dream pop way) towards the end, with a certain verse repeating itself about six or seven times. At that part of the song, it felt so intoxicating to listen to, I was compelled to repeat that particular part of the song. Second time through, the music was so overwhelming, it felt like the song was about to give me a headache - which has never happened while listening to music.

At this point I already experienced occasional visual distortions with open eyes, and they started happening again. This time, they evolved into other visual distortions; I started having this occasional infrared-esque acidic dripping. I noticed it a couple of times around the edges of my computer screen. It was also sometimes present with closed eyes. Texture also felt much more enhanced.


4:15-ish: I stop listening to music, and try to take a dump, since I'm moderately nauseous in my lower stomach. I have my laptop with me in the bathroom, and turn the Twitch stream back on. The conceptual thinking is greater, and the visual blurs are more frequent (still mild).


4:30-ish: My computer battery runs dry, so I'm left to sit on the toilet and think. Around this time I really start thinking about life; how it relates to me, and my perspective on life as a whole. I start digging into that subject at a rate I never have before. I've always had these thoughts about life but I've never realized it at this particular level; I've never experienced what I've thought it could mean. For the last three or four years, I've thought that life is objectively meaningless; and that's a perspective I've tinkered with ever since I came to that conclusion. But this substance really made me feel it, the meaninglessness and utter absurdity of life. How ridiculous it is to take it so seriously, to let the ego construct authoritarian belief systems and social codes. "Life is stupid!", I thought. I even explored my own values and also felt/understood how meaningless they are; love, for example. I've always had this burning desire for an honest, passionate, adventurous romantic relationship with a girl. I was dissecting that value and came to a similar conclusion: "Dear god, romantic love is retarded! Romantic love is SELFISH.", I sat there and felt - I saw that true love wasn't immersing yourself in some illogical, hedonistic biological emotional function with only one person - true love was about keeping the ego at bay and appreciating the experience of life: treating every single person on this earth as your equal, accepting them as life forms and merely nothing else, no judgment or boundaries, realizing we're all one, and communicating selflessly and altruistically. Also thought about the absurdity of sex, how animalistic it is, and how much it's worshipped in our society. Overall, just exploring a very nihilistic understanding of life; one that was similar to belief systems and philosophies like anti-natalism, something that I've been merely pondering and entertaining recently.

What stands out the most in this contemplation of the reasons for life and existence, what existence actually is, is in it's ultimate conclusion. I felt that life and existence were merely forms of energy and nothing more. It made me think about the absurdity of religion, which tied into thoughts about why psychedelic substances were illegal (I don't have a complete factual understanding of why this is, for the record.) and it made a lot of sense, I don't think I need to elaborate further as I think most people reading this will understand what I mean. Although, that could definitely be considered a simplistic, narrow way of viewing it.

But this conclusion that I came to and felt - that we're all just energy and nothing more, that everything is objectively meaningless - made me render any values I had meaningless as well. I felt that I was merely existing, only meant to be born and complete my existence. I felt that there was nothing to worry about, because life is objectively meaningless, and ultimately absurd. In a way, I felt like my ego was trying to kill itself (though certainly not dying), I felt like I was attempting to take on another set of values. I felt like Doug Stanhope or George Carlin.

I tied these conclusions into my life and how I feel about it. In a very logical, detached (non-emotional) way, seeing that life and existence were merely forms of energy - I saw that energies in existence had various qualities and vibrations, positive or negative, the sum of which adding up to a generally positive or negative energy state (in other words, an energy state is considered a person's life/existence). Looking at everything that's happened to me in my life, the very negative hand I've been dealt with, the great possibility that I'm afflicted with conditions such as autism spectrum disorder - I understood that I was situated in a negative space. My suicidal ideation was further reinforced and validated, but in a much more rational manner: I thought there was a very significant chance that I would never be able to flow from a negative space of energy/vibration into a positive space due to the amount of negative substance built up, and that life as this particular form of energy wasn't really working out, and that continuing to live as this form of energy was overall fruitless; a complete waste of time, and ultimately a decision that is illogical and foolish. I was very at peace with that prospect, though - I thought "If suicide is what I need to do, then so be it!". However, it also appeared that if all humans are situated in certain energy spaces - if we die, the most likely outcome for an afterlife is re-manifestation/rebirth. And given that we ceased in a certain space of energy - we're very likely, or certain to come back up in that same space of energy. So, in other words, we may be reborn as another person, but we'd be given a similar deck of genetic cards, so to speak. If this was the case, then I wondered if I should just stick it out and improve myself and my life (aka, attempting to transition from a negative space of energy to a positive space as best as possible) until I die - hoping that I'd be, at the least, in a less negative space by the time I'm on my deathbed and ready to live my next life. But then I thought about the high amount of negative substance and vibrations in my life, and how that would demotivate me and influence a lethargic state, prohibiting positive progress. Then I came back to the suicidal ideation: considering that the most likely future trend was for the negative energy and vibration to continue overriding any positive energy and vibration, and that the most likely pattern was that this would last throughout my life; leaving me, at the very least, in a moderate negative space by the time I'm ready to die - I thought that, if this were to happen, it would make no difference whether or not I killed myself; living as this particular form of energy was fruitless, and it would be logical to kill myself and move on as a different person, hoping that in my next life, I'd have greater motivation to power through the hardship of my space, and improve it.

(For the record, I did not have any increased urges to attempt suicide (I normally don't), knowing that I lacked the resources to sufficiently succeed in an attempt.)

So, in summary: I was able to at least attempt to detach from my ego, but it certainly wasn't ego death or ego dying (I don't think it was, at least). I was still in touch with myself, even exclaiming to myself "Man, I hate my life." a few times (which is something that I'm very much aware of normally). At one point I wanted this experience to end due to the unpleasantness of it, but I feel like that was mostly due to the nausea.


5:30-ish: Exit the bathroom, go back to my room. Entering my room, I had this slight irrational paranoia, like something could crawl out from under my bed (like a highly peculiar insect), but I was able to forget about it once I turned my laptop back on. As I watch the Twitch stream, I feel a combination of peace and chaos, but little to no emotional response; I just accepted it for what it was.


6-ish: Start to come down a bit, still felt effects. Music still sounded more intimate than usual, though that effect was less pronounced than earlier.


8-ish: Come down is greater, but still feeling mild effects.


10-ish: At this point the trip is over, and the after effects have seemed to dissipate as well. Ate breakfast, and was drowsy enough to fall asleep for a couple of hours.


3pm: Wake up, and feel no different compared to how I felt before going to sleep, so I assume that the trip and it's after effects are over and I'm back to normal.


__________________________________________


Overall, this trip was similar to the 100ug ALD-52 trip I had back in early July. However, while I had conceptual thinking, and emotional detachment from the ALD-52, I felt that my social anxiety started decreasing 10 hours after I took it, and continued decreasing through the comedown and after effects; I was able to mitigate my self-consciousness. ALD-52 also lasted much longer than 4-AcO-DMT - after effects lasting up to 2-3 days after the peak, social anxiety decreasing moderately, at times significantly. I was able to be far more articulate and coherent verbalizing my thoughts out loud; there was a huge difference in my communication over the phone with a friend - compared to conversations we had while I was sober, where I was unintentionally terse due to scatter-mindedness, unable to effectively communicate points I was trying to get across, difficulty keeping an appropriate flow to the conversation due to frequent pauses/moments of silence; generally socially awkward. The effects of ALD-52 helped me efficiently communicate what I wanted to discuss in a linear, logical manner, and improved my grasp on conversation flow. It essentially had some anti-depressant qualities. 4-AcO-DMT, on the other hand, didn't help with my soc. anxiety - though, that observation may be highly unreliable, as I barely talked to anyone while under major effects - there was one instance where my sister asked me if I needed the bathroom and I had that same awkward grin caused by the common euphoric-like effects. There was another instance a couple hours later, during the comedown, around 8am or so, where the effects were still present but really started dissipating - where I asked my sister about something, and I had the usual scatterbrain, self-consciousness, and awkward manner of describing details. ALD-52 made me contemplate both concrete and abstract aspects of my life, while 4-AcO-DMT made me dive into abstract aspects of not only my life, but life itself. ALD-52 and 4-AcO-DMT both suppressed my emotions and made me more logical/robot-like - but ALD-52 significantly stimulated me: it generally helped me break through my distractabilty and immersed me in external stimuli, caused me to be hyper and manic at times, and made apt to hyper-systemize - while the 4-AcO-DMT had a more calming effect, and enhanced my normal distractability tendencies to take external stimuli and filter it through my rugged perception; it just made that filtering system much more apt to conceptualize. Lastly, both substances made me more paranoid about certain things (phobias), but this was more pronounced with the ALD-52 - often, at night, I would check my room and make sure there weren't any certain sizable bugs similar to roaches. Sometimes, a black spec of dirt or something would nearly appear as a bug, which made me uncomfortable and on-guard. This fixation on certain phobias wasn't as bad (at times not even present) with the 4-AcO-DMT.

What stands out, is that once the after effects completely subsided, I slipped back into my normal poor mental health state, and was able to retain full association with my value system. So, while I was able to alter my value system briefly on 4-AcO-DMT, and explore a detached understanding of the thoughts I've had about life, after the effects wore off, I'm back to being intertwined with my original values about love and life, and taking it seriously enough to consider suicide if I'm unable to experience it in a certain way - rather than being "enlightened" and continuing to brush it off, and finding the whole thing (and everything for that matter) extremely absurd like I did in the 4-AcO-DMT mindset. So, the experience overall failed to guide me in a new direction, it just gave me a taste of what having a different mindset is like. Same thing happened with ALD-52: that trip made me understand how unhealthy my current home environment is, at a rate I never have before, and I became desperate to move out as soon as possible. But once the trip wore off, I slipped back into the usual lethargy and toleration of the whole situation. However, this doesn't motivate me to stop having experiences with psychedelic substances or other drugs, in fact it's quite the opposite: this tells me that I probably need to do stuff like this consistently, and also likely need to try much higher doses of substances, even on the verge of ego death, to have any chance at mindset retention and guidance - even if ego death is a huge risk. It's something I'm willing to try, if the alternative option is suicide.

Disclaimer: I am not a nihilist or anti-natalist, those are only belief systems I have been pondering lately, for specific reasons. I do, however, believe that there is no discernible meaning of life or existence, identifying as an atheist-leaning agnostic. I do believe that there are major problems in our society, chalking it up to moral corruption as a source for potential root causes. If a root cause of this chaos has to do with deep psychological or biological functions, seeing that the extinction of the human species is a highly unrealistic way to solve these problems, I believe that everything comes back full circle, everything cancels itself out; the best thing we can do is simply do the best we can to improve ourselves as human beings, and ultimately our society; do the best we can to achieve balance, something I believe human beings (myself included) have a hard time grasping, and, if needed, find ways to evolve beyond our biological limitations. I believe that things with a strong biological drive, like romantic love, pursuit of pleasure, etc. are not immoral or illogical if explored responsibly and with an appropriate grasp of balance. I believe humanity has simply thrown itself into an anti-altruism loop, where we're told to focus on ourselves rather than others. I believe that is one major root cause of our problems; this way of living leads to separation. These are simply observations that I've had over the past couple of years, which are mainly influenced by my intuition, gut, and rationale, rather than extensive research (I do plan on researching this heavily once I get my ADHD/concentration issues under control, to see if I am on the right track). However, the reason why I elaborate on this, is to state that my 4-AcO-DMT trip simply made me dive into my thoughts about humanity and life at a much more intimate level, and made me explore these perspectives at highly deep levels transcending my original position. The nihilistic set of beliefs I described above were not necessarily mine, they were the result of an altered form of my ego. So, I don't want to hold those beliefs as factually true, the things I explored may have been, simply put: rationalizations of pseudo-scientific bullshit. The description of my thoughts and perspectives under the influence of 4-AcO-DMT are only meant as insight into how this substance can alter one's perception, ego, belief and value system, and mental state.


substancecode_4acodmt
substancecode_tryptamines
explevel_firsttime
roacode_oral
exptype_neutral
exptype_difficult
exptype_spiritual
 
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Excellent report; very detailed and engrossing. Thanks for writing this up! :) Sounds like you had a deep, thought-provoking trip.

ATriumphForHuman said:
I've always had these thoughts about life but I've never realized it at this particular level; I've never experienced what I've thought it could mean.

I know exactly what you mean. Psychedelics have a way of allowing you to see your old ideas in a whole new light, more vividly and intuitively. It's difficult to describe.

ATriumphForHuman said:
I tied these conclusions into my life and how I feel about it. In a very logical, detached (non-emotional) way, seeing that life and existence were merely forms of energy - I saw that energies in existence had various qualities and vibrations, positive or negative, the sum of which adding up to a generally positive or negative energy state (in other words, an energy state is considered a person's life/existence). Looking at everything that's happened to me in my life, the very negative hand I've been dealt with, the great possibility that I'm afflicted with conditions such as autism spectrum disorder - I understood that I was situated in a negative space. My suicidal ideation was further reinforced and validated, but in a much more rational manner: I thought there was a very significant chance that I would never be able to flow from a negative space of energy/vibration into a positive space due to the amount of negative substance built up, and that life as this particular form of energy wasn't really working out, and that continuing to live as this form of energy was overall fruitless; a complete waste of time, and ultimately a decision that is illogical and foolish. I was very at peace with that prospect, though - I thought "If suicide is what I need to do, then so be it!". However, it also appeared that if all humans are situated in certain energy spaces - if we die, the most likely outcome for an afterlife is re-manifestation/rebirth. And given that we ceased in a certain space of energy - we're very likely, or certain to come back up in that same space of energy. So, in other words, we may be reborn as another person, but we'd be given a similar deck of genetic cards, so to speak. If this was the case, then I wondered if I should just stick it out and improve myself and my life (aka, attempting to transition from a negative space of energy to a positive space as best as possible) until I die - hoping that I'd be, at the least, in a less negative space by the time I'm on my deathbed and ready to live my next life. But then I thought about the high amount of negative substance and vibrations in my life, and how that would demotivate me and influence a lethargic state, prohibiting positive progress. Then I came back to the suicidal ideation: considering that the most likely future trend was for the negative energy and vibration to continue overriding any positive energy and vibration, and that the most likely pattern was that this would last throughout my life; leaving me, at the very least, in a moderate negative space by the time I'm ready to die - I thought that, if this were to happen, it would make no difference whether or not I killed myself; living as this particular form of energy was fruitless, and it would be logical to kill myself and move on as a different person, hoping that in my next life, I'd have greater motivation to power through the hardship of my space, and improve it.

I found this paragraph interesting, although I can't say I've ever had similar thoughts. Personally, I don't really believe in reincarnation; or at least, if there is such a thing, I don't think that your present life will impact your next one in any way. But, anyway, I love getting totally lost in deep, philosophical thoughts like this while tripping. It's my absolute favorite thing about psychedelics, even more than the music enhancement, I think. :)

ATriumphForHuman said:
What stands out, is that once the after effects completely subsided, I slipped back into my normal poor mental health state, and was able to retain full association with my value system. So, while I was able to alter my value system briefly on 4-AcO-DMT, and explore a detached understanding of the thoughts I've had about life, after the effects wore off, I'm back to being intertwined with my original values about love and life, and taking it seriously enough to consider suicide if I'm unable to experience it in a certain way - rather than being "enlightened" and continuing to brush it off, and finding the whole thing (and everything for that matter) extremely absurd like I did in the 4-AcO-DMT mindset. So, the experience overall failed to guide me in a new direction, it just gave me a taste of what having a different mindset is like. Same thing happened with ALD-52: that trip made me understand how unhealthy my current home environment is, at a rate I never have before, and I became desperate to move out as soon as possible. But once the trip wore off, I slipped back into the usual lethargy and toleration of the whole situation.

I can heavily relate to this as well. Unfortunately, it's really difficult to integrate the insights that you get on psychedelics, although it can be done eventually. At least now you have a clearer picture of what you're striving toward, if you want to integrate those changes on a permanent level.

ATriumphForHuman said:
I am not a nihilist or anti-natalist, those are only belief systems I have been pondering lately, for specific reasons. I do, however, believe that there is no discernible meaning of life or existence, identifying as an atheist-leaning agnostic. I do believe that there are major problems in our society, chalking it up to moral corruption as a source for potential root causes. If a root cause of this chaos has to do with deep psychological or biological functions, seeing that the extinction of the human species is a highly unrealistic way to solve these problems, I believe that everything comes back full circle, everything cancels itself out; the best thing we can do is simply do the best we can to improve ourselves as human beings, and ultimately our society; do the best we can to achieve balance, something I believe human beings (myself included) have a hard time grasping, and, if needed, find ways to evolve beyond our biological limitations. I believe that things with a strong biological drive, like romantic love, pursuit of pleasure, etc. are not immoral or illogical if explored responsibly and with an appropriate grasp of balance. I believe humanity has simply thrown itself into an anti-altruism loop, where we're told to focus on ourselves rather than others. I believe that is one major root cause of our problems; this way of living leads to separation. These are simply observations that I've had over the past couple of years, which are mainly influenced by my intuition, gut, and rationale, rather than extensive research (I do plan on researching this heavily once I get my ADHD/concentration issues under control, to see if I am on the right track). However, the reason why I elaborate on this, is to state that my 4-AcO-DMT trip simply made me dive into my thoughts about humanity and life at a much more intimate level, and made me explore these perspectives at highly deep levels transcending my original position. The nihilistic set of beliefs I described above were not necessarily mine, they were the result of an altered form of my ego. So, I don't want to hold those beliefs as factually true, the things I explored may have been, simply put: rationalizations of pseudo-scientific bullshit. The description of my thoughts and perspectives under the influence of 4-AcO-DMT are only meant as insight into how this substance can alter one's perception, ego, belief and value system, and mental state.

While I wouldn't describe myself as a nihilist, I can certainly understand how the ego-dissolving effects of a psychedelic might guide you down a nihilistic line of reasoning. So, from what you've described, I think the 4-AcO-DMT was beginning to break down your ego in a way that will help you overcome the negative mental constructs which are presently holding you back. I'm looking forward to hearing about your continued progress. :)

Thanks again for posting!
 
Excellent report; very detailed and engrossing. Thanks for writing this up! :) Sounds like you had a deep, thought-provoking trip.

...............................................................

I'm looking forward to hearing about your continued progress. :)

Thanks again for posting!

I'll get back to you with some related thoughts later.

Do you think this stuff is helping me so far? (Mainly the two "major" trips I've had thus far, with the LSD and tryptamine). I feel like I have to do this stuff consistently, say every two to four weeks or so, in order to stay motivated, so I can integrate myself into society and move out. I'll elaborate on this more later in a private conversation with you, but what do you think?

Also: @Kaleida , curious to hear your thoughts on my trip report. (Will get back to you later as well.)
 
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Do you think this stuff is helping me so far? (Mainly the two "major" trips I've had thus far, with the LSD and tryptamine). I feel like I have to do this stuff consistently, say every two to four weeks or so, in order to stay motivated, so I can integrate myself into society and move out. I'll elaborate on this more later in a private conversation with you, but what do you think?

To me, it looks like your first trips have been fairly promising, which doesn't surprise me. I feel that tripping regularly helps me with similar frustrations to the ones you've described. However, I can't make any guarantees, and you know yourself better than anyone else does, so the decision about whether or not to continue using psychedelics is up to you.
 
Hey, fascinating report but it broke my heart a little bit :( It's obvious you're in a LOT of pain, and I thinkthe substance brought out negative worldviews because of that influence. Of course the world is going to seem like a dark, absurd, meaningless place when you're depressed and suicidal. It isn't, I promise you! The world is a beautiful place and life is worth living, especially yours! I just don't think you should be touching psychedelics right now. It's very, very likely that you'll continue on this very self-destructive, nihlistic path if you do. I encourage you to seek professional help, and most of all, reach out to people :) People care about you!


Also I think it's great and healthy that you're a romantic and value long-term relationships, and I encourage you to continue seeking that :)


Good luck moonbeam!
 
Excellent report; very detailed and engrossing. Thanks for writing this up! :) Sounds like you had a deep, thought-provoking trip.



I know exactly what you mean. Psychedelics have a way of allowing you to see your old ideas in a whole new light, more vividly and intuitively. It's difficult to describe.



I found this paragraph interesting, although I can't say I've ever had similar thoughts. Personally, I don't really believe in reincarnation; or at least, if there is such a thing, I don't think that your present life will impact your next one in any way. But, anyway, I love getting totally lost in deep, philosophical thoughts like this while tripping. It's my absolute favorite thing about psychedelics, even more than the music enhancement, I think. :)



I can heavily relate to this as well. Unfortunately, it's really difficult to integrate the insights that you get on psychedelics, although it can be done eventually. At least now you have a clearer picture of what you're striving toward, if you want to integrate those changes on a permanent level.



While I wouldn't describe myself as a nihilist, I can certainly understand how the ego-dissolving effects of a psychedelic might guide you down a nihilistic line of reasoning. So, from what you've described, I think the 4-AcO-DMT was beginning to break down your ego in a way that will help you overcome the negative mental constructs which are presently holding you back. I'm looking forward to hearing about your continued progress. :)

Thanks again for posting!

With all due respect I very much disagree. It looks like this person is putting themselves in psychological danger with these substances because of their unhealthy mindset. With increased usage he could enter psychosis or potentially commit suicide. I don't see any sign of overcoming negativity as you put it, it appears that he's moving into a darker place. This worldview described in this report is extremely dark and unhealthy, and I don't understand why someone should strive towards that, unless they're on a deathwish! At least it appears that way based on this post. I could be wrong and hopefully so!
 
4-Aco-DMT can bring you into some strange states of mind. After a 35mg trip, I'm scared to trip again with it. It's not just flowers and euphoria. I remember feeling the interconnection between USA and China during nuclear war inside a submarine, both sides spying and saboting. Everything going so fast.
 
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