Ghaenrynquau
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2016
- Messages
- 26
How neurotoxic are opioids? I heard a psychiatrist say that opioids do not harm the brain like other hard drugs do.
N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand
That makes them seem much more acceptable than stimulants. So much talk about mdma neurotoxicity as well.They don't seem to cause neurone death in the same way as a massive dose of methamphetamine would. However, if you OD and stop breathing you'll certainly suffer brain damage, and one could argue that psychological aspects such as addiction are a form of semipermanent damage too.
That makes them seem much more acceptable than stimulants.
markosheehan said:hi
do you know if opiate use is neurotoxic or does any prmanent brain damage in long term use?
thanks
Please elaborate, why allometric scaling for those stimulants. Thank you very much! Very informative post.Whereas the fact that they cause physical addiction, unlike stimulants, makes them much less acceptable than stimulants.
In my personal opinion opioids are much more dangerous than stimulants.
EDIT: the user markosheehan sent me the following PM:
Here is my reply, since I think that he got his question by viewing this thread, and i also want others to read it and maybe reply to it (e.g when you want me to elaborate on things, eewheer I wrote "comment if you want me to elaborate on that".
I don't think that they cause neurotoxity, at least not in the same way that e.g. methamphetamine does, but quitting opioids cold turkey could cause a hyperstimulation of brain functioning (e.g. glutamate) which at least in extreme cases could lead to neurotoxicity.
And also an overdose that causes oxygen deprivation could of course also cause major neurotoxicity and even death!
So, generally I think that the "best" drugs are the ones that are neither directly nor directly neurotoxic , which leaves out opioids, methamphetamine,
and also cocaine (while it doesn't appear to be neurotoxic [source 1] , it certainly can induce lung damage (source 2 ),
and also ketamine, because it can cause bladder problems (source 3), even if it only causes it at higher doses that are consumed most often daily, the addictive porperties makes it so that this pattern of abuse can be achieved with ketamine, and by analogy, also with other nmda channel blockers [they are technically not antagonists, which classically are orthosteric, so ketamine and the others {e.g. mxe, dxm, ...} are all indirect channel blockers rather than direct nmda-antagonists, like CPP or Selfotel], because i think that the effects on the bladder are caused by the nmda channel blockers themselves, e.g. (anecdotal, but in my opinion still empirical evidence [comment if you want me to elaborate on that.])
Methylphenidate is one of the few drugs that actually doesn't cause almost any kind of toxicity, neither acutely (the LD50 in mice is an INTRAPERTIONIAL INJECTION of 32 mg/kg -> similar ~2400mg (!!!) which are INJECTED INTRAMUSCULARLY in humans, and yes I know abot allometric scaling, but for Methylphenidate you have to use linear scaling, just like with cocaine [source 4] [comment if you want me to elaborate on why allometric scaling is in order for cocaine/methlyphenidate/MDMA and not for drugs like ketamine], and also not chronically, except in extremely high doses [source 5]
[we again have to LINEALLY scale between 10mg/kg in mice -> 750mg again injected INTRAMUSCULARLY in humans, so therefore the statement in the study "chronic MPH usage in mice at doses spanning the therapeutic range in human" is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT), which isn't very surprising, since it's a PLOS one study, and PLOS one has already PROVED it's at least relative lack of peer reviewing with their psychedelic binding study, which contains DEFINITE mistakes (comment if you want me to elaborate on that) .
However, even methlylphenidate (at higher doses than are used for ADD) can cause "neurophysiological and behavioral sensitization which can induce an addiction that could make it so that doses that actually ARE neurotoxic can be reached.