Unhealthy relationships.

[FnX]

So, what is your take on relationships that are unhealthy? Obviously, many ways for a relationship to be unhealthy, but when I wrote the title I was thinking of the specific type where the relationship takes a toll on party especially. The kind where one is essentially trying to save the other because they can't help but to destroy themselves, yet both love each other and care about each other to the best of their ability (however one of them has no love for self). It is not entirely an impossible thought that issues could be fixed, but even after years of trying, or perhaps especially after years of trying, there is a sense of hopelessness. Imagine yourself in a relationship of this kind, how it has worn you out. Would you leave? Would you start caring less about the other and simply focus on yourself? Knowing full well that the other party wants to isolate themselves so they could take their own life without feeling guilt. If they did, how could you not feel guilty yourself, wearing yourself out even more knowing that happened because you left the scene? Damned if you do, damned if you don't? Would you eventually stop caring, if you took enough damage because of the relationship in which you stayed for long enough, or would your mind just become twisted, when love and guilt eventually become almost interchangeable? It's somewhat like co-dependency yet doesn't really feel like it, which makes the relationship feel especially out of sync and it feels really hard to determine the correct course of action because there really seems to be none.

The way I have come to see this is that healthy relationships involve a certain amount of selfishness, you have to be able to care about yourself to properly care about others. Still, relationships aren't about one individual but two. Certainly, love and guilt shouldn't mean the same thing in practice, and how can you love others if you were to only love yourself? All kinds of opinions and experiences are warmly welcome.

 

[pofacedhoe]

so you are in a relationship with someone that you want to leave but will feel guilty if they kill themselves beacuse they are threatening to do that shit all the time?

sorry but your question was ultraspecific


my take on this is that people need to help themselves, you cannot spend your life trying to fix a nutter. even if you love someone if all they do is drag you down fuck that.

your life is valuable. dont waste it with some miserable self absorbed depressive.

if you are married 10 years and 1 partner gets depressed then support them but if you have been in a relationship with someone that always wants to kill themselves and its never improving, get the fuck out

i used to feel suicidal and have mental health problems but i figured out how to get out of it. some people love to wallow in that shit for the drama aspect.

i'm a big one for letting people do what they want to do. if they want to drink themselves to death i'll say "that shit is bad" but then i'll leave them to it. if they want to be depressed and cut themselves i'll say "you need to find less maladaptive strategies for dealing with this" BUT if they dont listen i leave them to it.

what about if you want kids? this depressive person wanting to die is not a good influence plus they may result in a depressed child. be wise

sounds like a waste of time

time is precious

 

[BehindtheShadow]

so you are in a relationship with someone that you want to leave but will feel guilty if they kill themselves beacuse they are threatening to do that shit all the time?

sorry but your question was ultraspecific


my take on this is that people need to help themselves, you cannot spend your life trying to fix a nutter. even if you love someone if all they do is drag you down fuck that.

your life is valuable. dont waste it with some miserable self absorbed depressive.

if you are married 10 years and 1 partner gets depressed then support them but if you have been in a relationship with someone that always wants to kill themselves and its never improving, get the fuck out

i used to feel suicidal and have mental health problems but i figured out how to get out of it. some people love to wallow in that shit for the drama aspect.

i'm a big one for letting people do what they want to do. if they want to drink themselves to death i'll say "that shit is bad" but then i'll leave them to it. if they want to be depressed and cut themselves i'll say "you need to find less maladaptive strategies for dealing with this" BUT if they dont listen i leave them to it.

what about if you want kids? this depressive person wanting to die is not a good influence plus they may result in a depressed child. be wise

sounds like a waste of time

time is precious

^^^^^
This is 100%
Time is precious use it wisely!!!!

 

[pofacedhoe]

its just in your mid 30's you realise that actually your life is so much shorter than you thought. you only have limited free time away from work to pursue your hobbies and dreams.

for me to let someone needy and self indulgent take away my possibilites and dreams seems ridiculous (as someone who was for sure clinically depressed when i was younger i can say its a selfish self absorbed illness).

 

[BehindtheShadow]

its just in your mid 30's you realise that actually your life is so much shorter than you thought. you only have limited free time away from work to pursue your hobbies and dreams.

for me to let someone needy and self indulgent take away my possibilites and dreams seems ridiculous (as someone who was for sure clinically depressed when i was younger i can say its a selfish self absorbed illness).

Indeed I too was depressed and I did very selfish things that hurt my friends and family - its very hard to live with someone who is depressed IMO.
Sometimes you have to do what makes you happy and stuff everyone else that brings you down!

 

[FnX]

Thanks, I really appreciate your opinions. It's going to be hard as hell, but the longer I wait the harder it just gets. On the other hand, the person wants me to leave them because they "hate themself so much, don't deserve anyone, just want everyone to hate them so they can die" etc but on the other hand cry for help desperately. It really breaks my heart, but that's life I suppose. Heartbreaks are inevitable and will pass. It's like everything is spiraling down right now that I stop and try to hit the emergency breaks before everything crashes and I realize I can save one person or none... Unless distance helps the other to save themself, which is pretty far-fetched but feels like the only way. I won't have the strength to help them for long and eventually too tired to care about myself as well.

its just in your mid 30's you realise that actually your life is so much shorter than you thought. you only have limited free time away from work to pursue your hobbies and dreams.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same just on the verge of 30.

 

[third_eye_lasik]

I too can attest to the feeling of being in your thirties and realizing that we don't have as much time as we think we did in our twenties. Being in an unhealthy relationship is easier to be willing to get out of as time goes by.

 

[-=SS=-]

Imagine yourself in a relationship of this kind, how it has worn you out. Would you leave? Would you start caring less about the other and simply focus on yourself? Knowing full well that the other party wants to isolate themselves so they could take their own life without feeling guilt. If they did, how could you not feel guilty yourself, wearing yourself out even more knowing that happened because you left the scene? Damned if you do, damned if you don't? Would you eventually stop caring, if you took enough damage because of the relationship in which you stayed for long enough, or would your mind just become twisted, when love and guilt eventually become almost interchangeable?

I'm 30 and I was in a 3 year relationship, my first relationship, with a girl who had a lot of issues. I poured a lot of sympathy, empathy, and energy into her.. and she improved a fair a bit. In the end that didn't matter though, she decided it wasn't working and decided to cheat on me despite everything I had done for her. Despite not caring so much towards the end of the relationship it still reduced me to tears when I confronted her and she confessed.. I had given her a lot of my time and energy, and she threw it back in my face. I'll never waste my time doing that again, not even for friends. If people want to destroy themselves or have deep issues they need to figure that shit out on their own, getting entangled emotionally with them will inevitably drag you down a few notches or break you completely if you're unlucky. Offer some words of encouragement and support but don't invest yourself or allow them to leech.. that's what it feels like, a parasitical arrangement.. something is chewing on them and in turn they try to chew on you too. It's like they're drowning and instinctively try climb on top of you in order to survive thus drowning you both. The only solution is to not get too close.

It sucks and life is bloody cruel. Sometimes you have to walk away or distance yourself, to protect yourself. It makes no sense for their affliction to claim two victims instead of just the one. Some want to be saved and some people want to save, and that relationship I had fitted that description.. but ultimately in the end, in every relationship, one partner gets dragged up and the other dragged down.. it's just a case of finding a partner who is on a similar level to yourself so you (or they) don't slip too far.

The way I have come to see this is that healthy relationships involve a certain amount of selfishness, you have to be able to care about yourself to properly care about others. Still, relationships aren't about one individual but two. Certainly, love and guilt shouldn't mean the same thing in practice, and how can you love others if you were to only love yourself? All kinds of opinions and experiences are warmly welcome.

At the end of the day we're just animals, and animals aren't really supposed to endure prolonged close contact with the partner. You attract, you mate, you rear the offspring. Relationships are a human construction really, and if you want it to endure you need to retain an element of selfishness for sure.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

You have to get out of this toxic relationship for your own mental health!

Someone threatening to take their life is a manipulative way of trying to hold onto you.
This situation came up in group therapy in the past. Even the therapist said to get out of a relationship with someone holding suicide over your head. Do not feel guilty.

I have major depression and suicidal thoughts at times, but I'm making it a point not to drag someone else down with me. She needs therapy.

You are not her saviour. You're only hurting yourself.

 

[Foreigner]

I feel like I am reading something I would've written.

I've had the identical situation you have, and the same learned lessons.

No more children. No more projects. No more charity without reciprocity.

I'm 30 and I was in a 3 year relationship, my first relationship, with a girl who had a lot of issues. I poured a lot of sympathy, empathy, and energy into her.. and she improved a fair a bit. In the end that didn't matter though, she decided it wasn't working and decided to cheat on me despite everything I had done for her. Despite not caring so much towards the end of the relationship it still reduced me to tears when I confronted her and she confessed.. I had given her a lot of my time and energy, and she threw it back in my face. I'll never waste my time doing that again, not even for friends. If people want to destroy themselves or have deep issues they need to figure that shit out on their own, getting entangled emotionally with them will inevitably drag you down a few notches or break you completely if you're unlucky. Offer some words of encouragement and support but don't invest yourself or allow them to leech.. that's what it feels like, a parasitical arrangement.. something is chewing on them and in turn they try to chew on you too. It's like they're drowning and instinctively try climb on top of you in order to survive thus drowning you both. The only solution is to not get too close.

It sucks and life is bloody cruel. Sometimes you have to walk away or distance yourself, to protect yourself. It makes no sense for their affliction to claim two victims instead of just the one. Some want to be saved and some people want to save, and that relationship I had fitted that description.. but ultimately in the end, in every relationship, one partner gets dragged up and the other dragged down.. it's just a case of finding a partner who is on a similar level to yourself so you (or they) don't slip too far.



At the end of the day we're just animals, and animals aren't really supposed to endure prolonged close contact with the partner. You attract, you mate, you rear the offspring. Relationships are a human construction really, and if you want it to endure you need to retain an element of selfishness for sure.

 

[Asclepius]

Most of us are animals, with a conscience (unfortunately/fortunately). Selfishness is just a drive for self-preservation(important) but what complicates things is that in order to form meaningful attachments to others we have to be unselfish. We can 'act' this way but we strive for genuine connection and this is what hurts because of risk of rejection, abandonment and/false attachment (unfulfilling).

It's a clusterfuck to navigate. It's messy - it's meant to be. No genuine rewards/wisdoms come easy. Social standards are very shaky guidelines. It is for everyone, trial error and chance. However, to be creative with your feelings needs and desire to be loved and love will fulfill you- once you are genuine with yourself. I've no doubt in that will lead you to security.

 

[pofacedhoe]

no relationship is better than one that takes more from you than you get back.

your happiness is essential for you to function and if the other person cannot support you or themselves then you are being taken for a ride

 

[szuko000]

I have direct experience in this and it actually ended well. I was in love with a depressive anxiety ridden girl who at worst was suicidal and self harming. I thought love and work could fix her but that is never the case. I was always ambitious with future thought and plans but my desire to help someone in a sense removed that from me. We became heroin addicts together, both of us having done opiates very occasionally prior to meeting each other. I supported her habit and did everything i could to shield her from any negative outcome.

This goes on for years, literally years, I get clean she doesnt i relapse after a year clean and get on methadone. I convince her methadone isnt like subs (they made her very sick, not PW like spiked anxiety which lead to cravings etc) she tries it and loves it. Fast forward to 12 months after she got through intake she is basically walking out of the clinic on 3mg/day telling them all to fuck off and shes in charge of her life she wont relapse because shes not a fucking loser and she got off 90mg of methadone in record time she can do anything. Had to sign a shit ton of waivers stating she is refusing further treatment and not getting help for her suicidal depression through them.

I watched someone go from being weak and thinking themselves incapable to developing over a year into someone who feels that bullets cant stop them. She got off benzos quit cigarettes got off IV heroin, works out now and because of all this i got her a job and shes one of the best people here. She is very confident and all of this is the only payment i ever wanted for helping her. I didnt do anything other then keep her alive and healthy somewhere between realizing people in the clinic suck and her love for pain makes her somewhat impervious to its effects made her realize shes unique.

We broke up after getting clean because i went through the same transformation. I use to care about what people think or trying to be amicable because i actually thought it mattered. So rather then be in a relationship we are like brother and sister now. I understand why she feels the way she does about life and she understands me, i call her my 'nam buddy because of the crazy shit we saw and how we both revived each other. Another thing we joke about is we witnessed our old selves die, we both watched the other turn blue and die, that is why we changed so much our insecurities, self doubt, self hate and all that held us back was the only thing that narcan couldnt revive.

I would never suggest it and i dont know how she changed but that was 2 years ago, her personality has held through all types of outcomes in life. I didnt think it possible, she taught me something about emotional issues as they relate to drug use... something i never thought possible.

 

[JessFR]

I was in a relationship with someone depressed bordering on suicidal, for 6 years. I spent all my energy and no one was left to support me, it was only a matter of time till I relapsed with heroin. In the end I destroyed both our lives. Ironically I see now I made a mistake not being a little more concerned with myself. If I had maybe I would have been better able to help him without destroying myself and winding up hurting him.

Gotta put your oxygen mask on first before your kids.

I'm not one of those people to tell you to walk. If you're really in love with the person it's not a choice to walk. But it can be that being too selfless can be destructive.

Though it didn't help that his family made me at fault for anything and everything. Perfectly happy to deem me his carer responsible for 100% of all chores and responsibility.

Then after it fell apart they've decided even though even my ex has told them it's bullshit that supposedly I was keeping him confined to the house all day rather than his agoraphobia. So I spent years pleading and trying to get him out of the house and for that I'm blamed for keeping him at home all the time. When even he says it's not true.

Yes I am bitter about it, just one in a long line of bullshit.

Then after we got kicked out of our place they conspire to make me out to be 100% at fault for our failures to pay rent. Throwing me under the bus.

Sure it was more my fault than his but he was hardly without fault. But that's how it works, they blame me 100% for everything. For years I covered up the domestic abuse i suffered and let them hate me. Then he told them he'd hit me only for them to condone and excuse it. Sorry I'm off topic but it's still a sore spot for me.

Thing is, I loved him, I still love him.

No matter how toxic it is, and we were mutually toxic for each other, if you love them, it can feel impossible to give up on them. You can't. So if you truly love them, you can't not care. But you can care smarter than I did.

I should have worried more about my own deteriorating mental health, I shouldn't have covered up the abuse. I was asked repeatedly by my social worker at my methadone clinic if I was subject to domestic violence because it's so common among female heroin addicts. Maybe if I'd let people help me and didn't spend all my energy on him it might not have taken till I lost my relationship anyway, wound up homeless, begging and prostituting myself for money, before I finally started thinking about actually helping myself.

Just something to think about.

 

[Cogari]

You can't save someone, if they don't have the will and determination to help themselves. And they will destroy you to validate themselves. Take it from someone who stayed because they thought they could help someone they loved get better. It doesn't work. And it will lead to abuse, because as much as you don't want to face it, for most people who don't change the problem is that deep down they don't *want* to change. They will expect you to always be there. And that assumption will lead to them taking you for granted and taking liberties.

All you can be certain of in this world is your own mental fortitude and happiness. And the most important person in the world is yourself. You're born alone and you die alone, so you shouldn't place yourself at risk or in a depressive state for the sake of another who obviously doesn't attach the same care and concern for you. Decide whatever you want, but I'd recommend being cautious, because the one who will suffer is you and no one deserves to be mistreated due to an overflow of care.

I hope things turn out okay for you in the end (y)

 

[WannaBeSub]

You can't save someone, if they don't have the will and determination to help themselves. And they will destroy you to validate themselves. Take it from someone who stayed because they thought they could help someone they loved get better. It doesn't work. And it will lead to abuse, because as much as you don't want to face it, for most people who don't change the problem is that deep down they don't *want* to change. They will expect you to always be there. And that assumption will lead to them taking you for granted and taking liberties.

All you can be certain of in this world is your own mental fortitude and happiness. And the most important person in the world is yourself. You're born alone and you die alone, so you shouldn't place yourself at risk or in a depressive state for the sake of another who obviously doesn't attach the same care and concern for you. Decide whatever you want, but I'd recommend being cautious, because the one who will suffer is you and no one deserves to be mistreated due to an overflow of care.

I hope things turn out okay for you in the end (y)

These are very true words! I can completely relate. My ex had mental health issues. I destroyed myself in the process of "saving" him... which of course I never did. Only when I finally escaped I realised I and lost 3 years of my life...

 

[szuko000]

No matter how toxic it is, and we were mutually toxic for each other, if you love them, it can feel impossible to give up on them. You can't. So if you truly love them, you can't not care. But you can care smarter than I did.

This struck a chord and its exactly why i continued to support my ex when i was clean and she was still IVing everyday. People would wonder how i could put up with it but i had to. Maybe it speaks of my character in someways, I vowed never to do that again, but i put up with a world on fire did so with a smile maintaining the same job. She told me that she had emotional issues when we met but this was a slow build so by the time it was at its worse i was so madly in love i would tell people "yes leave the one i love to kill herself with an OD because I didnt want to deal with her problems as a couple"

Like I said I'd never do it again. I learned a great deal about myself and how if im not careful people will siphon off my drive and ability for their own gain. I value my time way more then I use to as well, having lost so much of it for no personal gain. I got lucky with my outcome we are still best friends and my return for my investment is the unique feeling that i helped someone discover themselves, well worth the unimaginable amount of money i spent. I got so lucky I would never have been able to leave her to die or sleep on the street. I was so worried even if we broke up and I lost contact with her id let her sleep on my couch after not talking to her for 5 years, how could i not? At least my parents and hers understood and if anything everyone blamed me, not a problem now because they were obviously all wrong and i was right... in some crazy unpredictable way lol

I strongly advise against what i did as the single greatest moment was reuniting with myself after so long apart. Being in a heroin addicted relationship for years i forgot who i was.

 

[-=SS=-]

^

Love is one of the greatest diseases of humanity. It causes many, typically the males, to do things they otherwise wouldn't if they remained a bit more level headed and rational. It makes for great movie and novel material. Mother nature doesn't give a hoot about our fantasy drivel though. It's all about fucking, really. Getting fucked by mother nature!

It's a fools gamble to think the person you're trying to save will still be the same once they've pulled themselves out of whatever hole they were in. They may even end up resenting you too for playing the hero role in the hopes of a reciprocation of affection.

 

[WannaBeSub]

It causes many, typically the males, to do things they otherwise wouldn't if they remained a bit more level headed and rational.

That's funny.... I would have said female.... But it's maybe basses on personal experience...

It's a fools gamble to think the person you're trying to save will still be the same once they've pulled themselves out of whatever hole they were in. They may even end up resenting you too for playing the hero role in the hopes of a reciprocation of affection.

That!! That is so so true!

 

[szuko000]

Love is one of the greatest diseases of humanity. It causes many, typically the males, to do things they otherwise wouldn't if they remained a bit more level headed and rational.

I never viewed it like that, I was not made bitter by my actions. The only thing that I did learn is that I am quite determined and capable and the best use of that is directed toward me only because i can use my drive to further myself. This will create a positive feedback loop and my life will get much better (and it did) I also believe relationship issues are equal for both sexes, women get battered and dont leave same with men. Psychological and emotional attacks can come from both sexes its not a one way street.

Love is a beautiful thing and I would advise you to try to work on that thought a bit. Your past doesnt need to dictate your future unless you allow it to being open to love is to be open to a powerful emotional experience. You just need a reminder of what it is to desire something like that.