• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Cold turkey off 4 mg Klonopin with chronic illness

Radtastastic

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Aug 11, 2017
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Doctor here in Portland cold turkey me from 4 mgs klonopin. I have highly progressive MS and Trigimenial Nueralgia.
I am shaking, in suicidal pain. Her reasons make no sense. I am a few years clean and she FLAGGED me.
Also am a CADC II but have not worked since first brain surgery 2 years ago.
I have no clue how to survive this. Please help me to think. I take GABA already, deathly allergic to the other antiseizures and am a seizure risk.
 
What was the reason the doctor decided to get you off clonazepam abruptly? How long had you been taking benzodiazepines for? Had you been tapering from a higher dose before stopping or did she suddenly cut you off? 4mg is certainly too high of a dose to quit clonazepam at, I can't imagine a condition that would require you to suddenly stop at such a dose and be put at risk of neurotoxicity and seizures if you are dependent. How long has it been since your last dose? The information you gave is really not much to go on but either way if you're feeling really bad, then get to the ER and tell them about your situation. This might be potentially a life-threatening situation.
 
You could ask for advice at benzobuddies.org , if you're re still able to.

Can you go to the ER ? I don't know a thing about your medical conditions, how long you have taken the drug but 4 mg is not a low dose.
 
Trigimenial Nueralgia (most painful disease known to man) and highly progressive MS.
My Klonopin didn't show in a DIPSTICK for benzos.
I was at 6 mg 5 years. 4 mgs 1 week. I already am prescribed double highest dose GABA and deathly allergic to all other antiseizures.
I take it for pain/seizures. I got 12 hours I'm suicidal from pain.
Now at 48 hours. Flailing.
I'm actually a CADC II before illness. No detox for benzos takes my insurance. I have no clue how to survive pain without it.
I know the risk. I don't have any other seizure meds (except benzos- I can take a couple) that I am not allergic to.
Klonopine is only one indicated for my pain as well.
 
I would sue the shit out off this doctor,its basically attempted murder say bye bye to your dr. title
As said before go to ER if that doesnt work go to your local drug scene and try to buy some benzos,you will find someone who has any type of benzos.Then order some from the darknet in larger quantities and taper slow,if you can afford that
 
I think this is technically a 'false negative'. It is really not uncommon at all. Drug tests often lead to false positives or false negatives. I don't even know if the test in question did test for Klonopin specifically.

The doctor should be aware of this. My gut feeling is that your legal position is strong (criminal law, civil law), especially if you have developed physical dependence which appears to be the case. My suggestion: confront your doctor about this, or go to a different doctor for help or get legal advice/support. Getting more information about the test in question would obviously be helpful. And time is of the essence if you want something else than a cold turkey, since the odds are that the withdrawal will get worse over time.
 
Use the table of BZD equivalence

There is a table of the comparative strength of benzodiazepines, look at it and take the equivalent of 4mg of clonazepam. Then, if you are consolidated try to obtain the clonazepam in drops, it is a blue liquid. Every day or every few days take one drop less. I was taking 4-5mg of clonazepam for 7 years. Then during about 3 months I got rid of it completely. Be VERY careful and very SLOW. Sometimes pregabalin may be helpful.
 
I fought the UA as they didn't do a confirm. I lost. Five doctors, never met the others flagged me. The pharmacist has my back and called to alert me as she's been fighting this too.
They also sent a COP to ensure I wasn't having a seizure. She flipped on them.
I don't have anyway to ascess klonopin now I'm flagged. 5 year of 6 mg. Dropped to 4 for a week using extra medications left from the 5 years. There's no restarting now that it's been stopped.
Frack.
 
I can´t say if it´s truly impossible for you to obtain the drug. I also don´t know where you live, my guess would be somewhere in the USA. Doctors can do awful things, that I know.

Have you tried legal counsel or threatened the doctor with legal action ? At this point, it seems you have little to lose. Usually docs are afraid of liability and for that reason they wouldn´t just CT you.

Medical malpractice, medical negligency, medical abuse ?
 
Yeah this could lead to major league shit, including grand-mal seizures, living hell or worse.

If you have to, and its not the usual sort of thing I'd reccomend, stock up on RC benzos and after finding a dose that intoxicates mildly to moderately, drop it down some, until you find a dose that holds you without withdrawal, preferably a longer acting benzo, since clonazepam is quite long acting. If you really are stuck, and this is a short term measure, then there are mulungu, the bark of a tree in the Erythrina genus (note, go for E.mulungu specifically since some Erythrina species contain alkaloids of a curare-like paralytic nature) E.mulungu is a GABAergic agonist and sedative/muscle relaxant. There is also kava, valerian (go for extract and don't take any notice about the max dose stated on the packets, its bollocks. Valerian contains GABAa allosteric modulators of the loreclezole site.

GABA itself does NOT pass the blood brain barrier.

Also, if you can find the SOCl2 on ebay, and get some sodium bisulfite or metabisulfite from a beer makers shop (homebrew type places) or winemakers stores, bisulfite cleavage of vitamin B1 (thiamine) affords the intermediate thiazole-2-ethanol. Reaction of this with a chlorinating agent gives a powerful anticonvulsant called chlormethiazole. Careful with this, it binds the barbiturate binding site, and packs a real punch. Also do NOT drink alcohol with it, it inhibits alcohol dehydrogenase and will knock you to the floor or kill you if combined in any large degree. A beer or two you'll be alright, with a benzo tolerance like yours, but drinking much will easily kill with chlormethiazole.

Alternatively, for emergencies, there is an easily made analog of chloral hydrate called chlorobutanol or chlorbutol. This exists as white, sublimable crystals with a camphor-like odor. And it is prepared in two steps. First is a haloform reaction using hypochlorite bleach and acetone. This affords chloroform. Once you've gotten your chloroform, this is then reacted with more acetone in the presence of base, to give chlorobutanol. It isn't good for the liver, it lasts a fair long time but of course is better than a grand-mal seizure or fatality from benzo WD.

Brown Birch tree bark also contains GABA agonists, betulin and some related derivatives, IIRC they act at the barb site, ethanol/acetone solution ought to extract the active principles.

Hope people don't mind the synth instructions here, given the particular circumstances and potential for a medical emergency. Don't wait, go to the hospital ASAP because it is easily possible for benzo WD to incapacitate you, or after a seizure, to be left nonverbal for a time, and thus prevent you from phoning for help. Do not drive, ring for an ambulance.
 
I would caution against self-medicating with RC chemicals, partly because of any future blood tests, partly because long term physical dependence as prescribed by a doctor tends be something different from the more typical 'withdrawals' of 'addicts'.

This is typically a matter of drug, dose, daily intake, physical and/or mental problems, other prescription drugs that could cause 'unexpected' effects.

I assume that the OP means gabapentin rather than pure GABA.

Sometimes people are helped by antiseizure drugs (but 'deadly allergic' ?), Lyrica/pregbalin (antiseizure?), some other drugs but it is important to keep in mind that what might help might also cause harm. I would recommend getting a competent doctor as well as legal counsel, but that's easier said than done. Again, maybe you could get advice on benzobuddies.org, but then I could imagine that that forum caould also cause stress.
 
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Well yes, but if he has suddenly or will suddenly be forced, with a seizure history already known to be vulnerable to such, to drop that much clonazepam cold turkey, he's going to need to retain the capacity to seek help, at least. I wasn't suggesting he just continue self medicating, but to obtain enough that if he DOES have no other choice but to abstain utterly, and suffer horribly at best, grand mal seizure and even death at worst, whilst suffering horribly, or to self medicate and taper, if the hospital fucks him over as an inpatient (I've had it happen to me, they KNOW I was dependent on high dose morphine and oxy for my chronic pain but refused anythign more than 10mg oral morphine when I'm taking 20 times that minimum a day of morphine, IM/SC and 80mg oxy minimum a day, prescribed, require chlormethiazole for seizure prophylaxis and response, and have a benzo script for 10mg nitrazepam a day, take 2 different adrenergic autoreceptor agonists, withold them ALL from me, bar 10mg oral morphine twice a day and one paltry little zopiclone tab a night, despite showing them the script refill slips and them having my med notes, yet when I LEAVE the hospital, after a week of living hell, going in for an injury, in one case an absolutely agonizing one, a base-burn to an eyeball which would absolutely justify heavy-duty analgesia of the opioid kind, the only analgesia I got in the ER even, was, for the most part by the paramedics in the ambulance, who let me on the entonox, and one kind doctor, after hearing my shitty fucking plight, that the rest of the docs in the ER were consigning me to, brought me a full tank of nitrous to my bedside and left it there for me.

the rest of the nurses, doctors, the lot, withheld the rx meds I am already ON, that I need to BE on, and have been on for years, with legitimate prescriptions for them, and then when i left the hospital (and this has happened more times in hospital than it has not happened, most times in fact, 90% I'd say its what they've done) and then once I am discharged, or discharge myself because I ended up in so much fucking misery that I'd have better outcome with my GP after the initial trauma being attended, but discharged, with, after asking for (it being a friday, and impossible to get a GP appt before the monday to come, asked for a few days med coverage, and then they shoved a big fucking bag of 2 dispensary-size full bottles of chlormethiazole caps in my hands, a big bottle of liquid oxycodone, a variety of 10, 30 and 100mg morphine XR capsules, some capsule IR oxy, some XR oxy, and all the rest of everything I take, more than willingly. Almost so readily, and so over the quantity I'd have needed, or asked for that it felt like it was done in the hope of stopping me suing them for malpractice! ) and without any warnings as to safety. Given me my usual dose of morphine, plus another..I think it was about 400-500mg morphine more than my regular dose, twice or three times daily enough for a couple of weeks to three weeks, when I asked for my regular meds for three days, god only knows how much more oxy, I didn't even try to work it out, and as for the chlormethiazole, christ, gave me enough of the stuff to level a horse with it alone. Hospitals can be really, majorly irresponsible fuckwit-infested nidula of cretins; same lot, some fucker asked me 'are you allergic to any antibiotics', me 'yes, beta-lactams, likely anaphylaxis' doctor then starts up an iv drip of some IIRC amoxicillin, one of the penicillins anyway, straight away after being told of the allergy. And repeatedly warned that I was allergic. Only bothering to tell me what was in the drip because I specifically asked him. And when told it'd likely kill me, he ignored me and walked off, saying he'd be back to check on me in 10 minutes.

In the meantime, I had to fix the situation myself, and he came back to see that I'd severed the IV line with my knife and the IV bag was pooling over the floor. If I hadn't, or if I had not known about the nature of the meds, and had not asked and indeed when polite asking was ignored, demanding to know what was in the IV bag, I'd probably be dead by now. And then realizing that yes, it was indeed life and death serious, and that no, I was not going to take any shit from him whatsoever, I'd question him and make sure I got answers, he then, after being informed I'd had a lot to drink (about 70cl-1l of southern comfort rye spirit a couple of hours before) then tried to start me on a metronidazole drip. Said 'oh, you'll be fine don't worry about it'

I ended up having, whilst in a shitty, shitty situation, to lecture the guy on liver enzymes and alcohol metabolism, gritting my teeth with pain and pretty much snarling in fury at his utter stupidity and unfitness to practice medicine on so much as a flatworm. I haven't much tolerance for fools at the best of times, and in a situation like that, my inclination to put up with a moron of that nature when the stakes are so high is so little as to be unmeasurable. Whilst I didn't threaten to stab him with the same knife I used on the IV line, from the look on his face and the way he stayed there and listened to the furious bollocking he was then given, I think the look on my face alone said that I seriously wanted to grab him and fillet him on the spot, then reassure him 'oh you'll be fine, I'll tell somebody you are bleeding out of both carotid arteries and have a severed spine and your tongue ripped from your face in about ten minutes, you don't need a blood transfusion, you'll be ok..''

It shouldn't happen, but regrettably, such abject neglect and incompetence can and does happen. Its not the first time I've had a dr (different one) this time a GP, ask me about antibiotic allergies, be told of them, and less than 30s later, prescribe me a beta-lactam. And again, had to be told what to use. Thankfully she at least, was sufficiently neuronally functional to amend the script and give me the erythromycin I needed to take rather than co-amoxiclav and look shame-faced afterwards.

The hospital 'doctor' if it hadn't been for the fact I could barely move my lower body at the time, is lucky that I DIDN'T spring up and go freddy kreuger on his face. He certainly did leave looking pretty pale-faced and shaken, even so after the public dressing-down I had to give him, twice. And once I'd finished, he left in a hurry and never came back. The next dr was far more respectful and made a point of avoiding such moronic mistakes.
 
Wow, what unexpected wisdom.
The state I live in has criminalized pain patients and is decriminalized hard drugs.
I did have to get things my own way. I have done UA's and knew was false negative. I also have a mass in my espogaus which was just found.
Unfortunately there's very little leeway to sue. My sister in law is an attorney for such things and the fact is- Im a self disclosed addict.
I have so much I could sue for, missing MS, mass on lung, misuse of radiation...
Sadly I have no leg to stand on with this. I lost as the repeat UA was refused and Id been 'tapered'' when I got a positive having a grand mal a few days later.
Im in a self taper, not doing per doctors scenario. I will need some more support as I know we aren't doctors (I will be) but some of you also are needed¡
I can't believe the wisdom. Thank you
 
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