• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

sublingual absorption as a regular ROA

Fornax55

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
466
Hey. I originally wrote this regards to cooked flake opium & poppy seed tea and why people prefer to stick it up their booty instead of just taking it sublingually (which I realize isn't THAT common but it was in response to a thread on a different forum) but I wanted to reach a wider audience but I don't really want to rewrite it. However the same concept applies to pretty much any drug I, or people I've known, have put up their ass to improve BA.

I changed a couple references. Fortunately I know you're all smart enough to substitute any reference to "opium/PST" with "drugs in general," or particularly, "drugs that are commonly absorbed through the ass." Anyhoo-


this isn't really a question so much as a suggestion for users of cooked flake opium, particularly those who use it rectally. I've always been a huge fan of taking things sublingually and I feel that it's a hugely undervalued route of administration.

I've noticed that sublingual use of... well, pretty much anything, isn't well documented outside of meds that are made for being taken that way. I take everything sublingually and from what I've read, gathered, and experienced, absorption through the mucosa in your mouth provides similar BA as taking stuff up your pooper.

So I guess I'm just offering a suggestion to everyone who's been cramming (anything) up their ass that it might just be simpler to stick it under your tongue for a bit. It doesn't taste that bad. I was chewing fresh pods the other day, and if I can do that, you can suck on some opium!

Also an addendum, anyone have any insight as to why sublingual use is such an unpopular ROA for everything? I've taken everything from my poppies, other opiates, amphetamines (do not recommend if you want your teeth to stick around), shit I even take my sleeping pills sublingually. I've noticed nothing but good results... but I also have a much more noted ability to deal with shitty tastes than anyone I've ever met...

If taste's the only reason holding people back from sublingual use then I hope they just try plugging their noses! I'm not writing this post to come off cocky or conceited, I've just been using sublingual ROA instead of rectal for months and since I can never find any concrete information on it - just an anecdote here and there for some substances - I figured I'd let y'all know. Or remind y'all, I guess.

Like, shit. It even works with poppy seed/poppy pod tea. And yet I've NEVER seen this mentioned in a potentiation thread. If you reduce your tea enough so you can hold it in your mouth for long enough, bam, first pass metabolism gets left in the dust and your tea's two and a half times stronger.

Or a better example - for years I thought I'd never get high on morphine pills because I refused to IV and this was before I'd stuck anything up my ass. There -is- a couple threads that mention morphine's massive BA increase compared to oral when taken SL. It's comparable to rectal. Which is comparable to IV.
Which is INSANE, when people are popping them down their gullet with a ~25-30% BA because sublingual use is so unpopular that nobody thinks to mention it in forum posts!

All those years I could've just been sticking the damn things under our tongues and saving a lot of time and poopy turkey basters.

Anyway, hopefully someone heeds this advice and saves some money/drugs. :) and hopefully someone else can suggest why SL use is so unpopular
 
Do you have any proof to back up SL being a good way to do morphine? I ask because i enjoy morphine but oral is my only way i will take it. And the BA is very low as we all know
 
MS looks like it's a poor choice for SL administration. Take a look at page 3 graph: http://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(98)00046-3/pdf


Huh. That's really weird, no? Morphine sulphate's water soluble, but the study's saying it stayed in their mouth for 10 minutes without being absorbed through the mucosa, before being swallowed and eventually absorbed in the GI. Not only was onset time SLOWER with SL it also provided a slow BA.

So that would imply there's some mechanism preventing the morphine from being absorbed. Any idea what that would be? Why would diacetylmorphine be better absorbed SL than morpine? I know the acetyl group helps it permeate the BBB but I have no idea if that affects solubility or not.

(I skimmed the rest of the 3rd page in that study, and the next page, but I didn't see an answer but if it is there sorry)
 
Maybe should move this to ADD, I've been curious about this for a while and I can't seem to find any studies
 
"Morphine is one of the least lipid soluble opioids, with a partition coefficient of 0.00001. Its pKa at physiologic pH is 7.9, indicating that it is
more than 90% ionized at the pH of the mouth.Morphine also has a relatively low potency for
an opioid; when 5.0 mg morphine would be used for analgesia, a comparable dose of 0.1 mg buprenorphine or 0.05 mg fentanyl might be used.

Optimal sublingual absorption through the oral mucosa favors moderately lipid-soluble drugs that are largely non-ionized at the physiological
pH of the mouth. Drugs with a very high partition coefficient are too water insoluble to
achieve a sufficiently high concentration in salivary fluids.

Drugs with higher potency allow greater activity per unit passively diffused, so high potency improves response to mucosally
administered drugs in general."

http://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(98)00046-3/pdf


Why would diacetylmorphine be better absorbed SL than morpine?

Diacetyl Morphine has a much higher lipid solubility.
 
Diacetyl Morphine has a much higher lipid solubility.

Yes, morphine has a logP of 0.9, which is pretty bad. Heroin has a logP of 1.58, because the polar oxygens of morphine are "masked" by the acetyls of heroin.

A logP of 1.5-2.5 is optimal for both BBB penetration and absorption.
 
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