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August Getting Staying Clean and Sober Thread vs Light in August

Hey, GK...I totally hear you. I just passed the 9 month mark in my recovery a couple weeks ago, and it's a weird spot to be in. Like you, I keep looking around for issues and problems that I can start thinking about, problems that need solving. I try to remind myself that this is, all things considered, still pretty early in recovery, and that I am still trying to learn how to handle shit without narcotics. In other words, the 'pace' of the problem solving has slowed down, but the overall task is the same--practice living without putting pretexts for checking out in my own way.
 
I don't know why this just started bothering me this evening but a few nights ago a recovery pal invited me to a networking social event at this godawful yuppie bar in the tourist area of Orlando. I asked the bartender if they had anything nonalcoholic like an O'Douls, and my friend started giving me shit about "I know someone that got drunk off non-alcoholic beer blah blah blah," and I called him and on it and said bullshit, no he doesn't. He's a smart guy with degrees in finance from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. He should know better than to repeat recovery urban legends that are so easily debunked. I went to a web-based blood alcohol calculator that uses the formula developed by Dr. E. M. P. Widmark (which is extremely conservative) and even if I shotgunned 6 non-alcoholic beers in a row, assuming a .5% ABV and putting my weight in as 200 lbs., my BAC would be .01 and that's ROUNDED UP to the nearest hundredth. It would actually be something like .008. After that he just said, "well, there's still alcohol in it" and let it drop.
 
I personally feel like situation described with the non-alcoholic beer really is little more than another kind of defense mechanism, designed to make the person dishing out the criticism feel better about who they see themselves as, their way of doing things, etc. Similar to how bullies sometimes put others down. As long as one is clear with themselves about their own intentions, I feel like giving much weight to those kinds of judgemental would be a mistake.

They're putting you down because it makes them feel more secure with where they're at - which itself indicates a significant part of them feels like they haven't really resolved their core issues, as they feel the need to mask them by puffing themselves up at the cost of putting someone else down.

Other stuff could be said, but that's basically my initial thoughts. Now, having a sober meeting at a bar is an entirely other issue. I will never really understand that.
 
People begin acting drunk long before alcohol reaches their brain. That would likely explain your friend's observations, and the fact that they didn't get drunk off an O'douls.
 
FLA said:
I saw that situation play out with someone I knew in AA up in Jacksonville. He was getting a lot of flak about drinking non-alcoholic beer occasionally at his family back yard barbecues. I don't know for sure, but I think the issue that concerned his sponsor was it was reinforcing alcohol ideation. I told him privately that I thought they were making something out of nothing but I would advise you to put more weight on how people on here like TPD, NAS and CH etc. with clean time see it. I feel like the second I say something I contradict myself sometimes. And about your friend, my personal feelings are that sometimes the more education these people have, the more egotistical they get. Education is a great, almost essential thing nowadays. Hopefully you retain enough humility to not turn into a legend in your own mind.
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I was such a chronic relapser there's no way I can have any ego whatsoever around my recovery. I don't blab about how much time I have around here because I've made posts to that effect that got no response (just getting that out there before it turns into a resentment) but let's just say it's enough to be chairing NA meetings, which I've started to do. With the clarity that comes with continued clean time, I mostly keep my lip zipped in meetings because compared to the people out there with decades of clean time, I only have opinions, not experience. To me it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realize the less you know.
 
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aihfl said:
I was such a chronic relapser there's no way I can have any ego whatsoever around my recovery. I don't blab about how much time I have around here because I've made posts to that effect that got no response (just getting that out there before it turns into a resentment) but let's just say it's enough to be chairing NA meetings, which I've started to do. With the clarity that comes with continued clean time, I mostly keep my lip zipped in meetings because compared to the people out there with decades of clean time, I only have opinions, not experience. To me it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realize the less you know.
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Hey, aihfl...First, I'm so sorry people didn't respond when you mention clean time milestones on BL. I know the feeling, and it's shitty.

Second--more important--thing: FWIW, more often than not, I prefer to hear from people "early" (whether 0 days or even a year or two) in recovery at meetings rather than old-timers. Every now and then an old-timer will say something insightful and vital, but more often, their shares seem pretty bland. I guess my point is, you never know what someone in the room needs to hear. You might do yourself and someone else a favor by sharing. Obviously, this is entirely up to you, and I'm sure you've heard my argument before. I just wanted to put it out there.
 
tired of crap said:
I had a conversation with a friend about something similar there GK. When I was pretty low, about how sometimes we tend to look at the negative side of things. And if theres nothing there we "stir shit up" like you say. He suggested that looking at only the negatives was a sort of defense mechanism so we could avoid such matters. Which sorta makes sense.. But then why do we seek them out sometimes? If only I knew haha
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simco said:
Hey, GK...I totally hear you. I just passed the 9 month mark in my recovery a couple weeks ago, and it's a weird spot to be in. Like you, I keep looking around for issues and problems that I can start thinking about, problems that need solving. I try to remind myself that this is, all things considered, still pretty early in recovery, and that I am still trying to learn how to handle shit without narcotics. In other words, the 'pace' of the problem solving has slowed down, but the overall task is the same--practice living without putting pretexts for checking out in my own way.
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'm more upbeat right now, the ol' fixmanagecontrol tendency isn't as strong today. I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but I have been watching porn and masturbating more than usual recently, and I'd like to stop doing that so much. Yeah yeah, another day clean is great, but I find myself reaching for other bad habits when I feel helpless and out of control, which I have as of late.

I started reading The Heart of Addiction by Lance Dodes yesterday. An old girlfriend gave it to me after we broke up, saying it might be useful. I never bothered to read it back then, but I've had it laying around all this time. It has some interesting theories and commentary on existing treatment/recovery models, and tackles addiction as a whole rather than separating and diagnosing all these different addictions/compulsions in their own categories. I do attend NA regularly and work that program, but it's refreshing to see these other ideas. It's far too easy to get burnt out on all the groupthink and slogans that naturally come with 12 step recovery.
 
That book is the first I ever read on the topic, back before I'd ever even seen any drugs when I was a teenager. Not a bad choice for reading. I heard his more recent book is better, but I can't really speak to that.
 
I really enjoy Dodes' work. I was especially impressed with "The Sober Truth." As a somewhat conflicted member of a 12-step fellowship, I thought he did a great job of unpacking some of the biggest problems with AA/NA.
 
aihfl said:
I was such a chronic relapser there's no way I can have any ego whatsoever around my recovery. I don't blab about how much time I have around here because I've made posts to that effect that got no response (just getting that out there before it turns into a resentment) but let's just say it's enough to be chairing NA meetings, which I've started to do. With the clarity that comes with continued clean time, I mostly keep my lip zipped in meetings because compared to the people out there with decades of clean time, I only have opinions, not experience. To me it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realize the less you know.
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aihfl, I totally get that. When I first started in the program up in Jacksonville. There were some meetings, mostly at peoples houses, where you had to share whether you had anything you thought was worthwhile or not. My therapist thought I would fit in best with this clique of professional people. I've pretty much known I've had a type of social anxiety since high school, when I had to give an oral book report in psych class. When I had to share at these people's houses I would get so nervous I thought I was going to have a heart attack. For what it's worth my therapist's partner who I did my one-on-one sessions with did diagnose me with social anxiety eventually because my sponsor wanted a professional opinion best I can remember. The therapist didn't want to say for sure until I'd been clean about 6 months so he could be sure it wasn't PAWS related I suppose. Even down here I always had a dread going into meetings that I'd have to say something. Sometimes, if I trust the people I'm with it's usually fine. One guy in the program up in Jax thought I had something going on with too much anticipation about things. I can't remember what he called it.

I was talking with a friend from high school the other day. Keep in mind I haven't seen this guy since high school 44 years ago. I don't remember how it came up, but I told him I had social anxiety and he couldn't stop laughing. He thought it was ridiculous from having known me as a teenager. I said yeah you guys never saw that side of me probably because we were close friends and I felt totally comfortable around you. I also thought I would break it to him gently that I struggled with some issues with strong opioids (from about 2001 -2013) and he started laughing about that too like "that's just who you are dude." Anyway I just have to say BL has turned out to be pretty useful for me. Connecting with people is a good thing.
 
FLA said:
aihfl, I totally get that. When I first started in the program up in Jacksonville. There were some meetings, mostly at peoples houses, where you had to share whether you had anything you thought was worthwhile or not. My therapist thought I would fit in best with this clique of professional people. I've pretty much known I've had a type of social anxiety since high school, when I had to give an oral book report in psych class. When I had to share at these people's houses I would get so nervous I thought I was going to have a heart attack. For what it's worth my therapist's partner who I did my one-on-one sessions with did diagnose me with social anxiety eventually because my sponsor wanted a professional opinion best I can remember. The therapist didn't want to say for sure until I'd been clean about 6 months so he could be sure it wasn't PAWS related I suppose. Even down here I always had a dread going into meetings that I'd have to say something. Sometimes, if I trust the people I'm with it's usually fine. One guy in the program up in Jax thought I had something going on with too much anticipation about things. I can't remember what he called it.

I was talking with a friend from high school the other day. Keep in mind I haven't seen this guy since high school 44 years ago. I don't remember how it came up, but I told him I had social anxiety and he couldn't stop laughing. He thought it was ridiculous from having known me as a teenager. I said yeah you guys never saw that side of me probably because we were close friends and I felt totally comfortable around you. I also thought I would break it to him gently that I struggled with some issues with strong opioids (from about 2001 -2013) and he started laughing about that too like "that's just who you are dude." Anyway I just have to say BL has turned out to be pretty useful for me. Connecting with people is a good thing.
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I don't have an issue with talking in public (I was a teacher for many years), it's just the longer I stay clean, the more selective I am in what I choosing whether or not anything I have to say has any real value to me or another addict. There's already waaaay too many people at 12 step meetings who are in love with the sound of their own voice and I don't need to be a part of the Chorus of Harpies.
toothpastedog said:
A week from today I'll be in grad school. Yay! :)
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Congrats. I just got my safety/rescue diver card. Not a degree, but I already have an assortment of those lol
simco said:
Hey, aihfl...First, I'm so sorry people didn't respond when you mention clean time milestones on BL. I know the feeling, and it's shitty.
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Much appreciated
 
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You know, in many ways a diver card is more practical than most degrees :) I really look forward to diving out around Catalina Island again. The ocean is so much fun!
 
Had a pretty unpleasant flashback a few days ago. I was going from a NA meeting to Costco, and I had to travel a road I rarely go down. It didn't take long to figure out that was the road where the impound lot is where my car was taken to in 2015. I was blacked out in a rest area on the interstate (lucky beyond words I was not charged with a DUI - did not know at the time that you don't actually have to be driving to be charged with that) and someone called the cops and I woke up (again) in a hospital. The emergency room kindly discharged me around 3:30am and I waited on a bench outside the hospital until around 6:30 and started walking. Mercifully, the impound lot was only a couple of miles away. Right at 7 when alcohol sales start I popped into a gas station and bought a couple of tall boys and shotgunned them in the bathroom to keep from having withdrawals. Good memories. I voluntarily went to treatment the next day.
 
aihfl said:
Had a pretty unpleasant flashback a few days ago. I was going from a NA meeting to Costco, and I had to travel a road I rarely go down. It didn't take long to figure out that was the road where the impound lot is where my car was taken to in 2015. I was blacked out in a rest area on the interstate (lucky beyond words I was not charged with a DUI - did not know at the time that you don't actually have to be driving to be charged with that) and someone called the cops and I woke up (again) in a hospital. The emergency room kindly discharged me around 3:30am and I waited on a bench outside the hospital until around 6:30 and started walking. Mercifully, the impound lot was only a couple of miles away. Right at 7 when alcohol sales start I popped into a gas station and bought a couple of tall boys and shotgunned them in the bathroom to keep from having withdrawals. Good memories. I voluntarily went to treatment the next day.
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More than anything else, revisiting places related (in my mind) to drugs is still the thing that fucks with my head the worst. A big part of why I just moved across the country is due to the fact that the shitty town I was living in was just haunted for me...dope everywhere.

I'm glad you went to treatment that day.
 
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