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Bupe Buprenorphine and Immodium

N

ninth_u

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
5
So this is only going to relate to a niche group but I wanted to get this information documented and out there. I am currently on a fairly low dose of Suboxone daily (2mg). I need to also state that I do not take 2mg daily but more like 3-4mg until im out. Im prescribed it every two weeks meaning I run out early. Every so often I will take a few large recreational doses of Immodium (lopermide and roughly 98-144mg per dosing) until I refill my subs. I wouldn't recommend this due to lopermide being cardiotoxic at these doses. The main point im getting at is that I had precipitated withdrawals from taking the sub to close to the lopermide dose. Yesterday I took 98mg of lopermide around 3pm. Then today around 4pm I did 3mg of suboxone IV and 1mg sublingually. Within 1 minute of doing the shot it became apparent I was going into precipitated withdrawals. However it only lasted about 45 minutes before symptoms were getting largely better. Now obviously lower doses of lopermide would not cause this but from my new experience there is a line with it that once crossed will trigger PWs. If anyone has any thoughts or questions, I would love to hear it. Be safe.




https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm504617.htm
-Immodium cardiotoxity warning.
 
I never encountered any issue with PWD when switching between HDL (high dose loperamide) use (approx 160mg) and using buprenorphine the next day. I never used HDL like this for more than one day in a row though. Most folks I've heard from had similar experience as I did, without having any issues, but I've been noticing more folks who experience PWD/something similar when messing with HDL.

Perhaps some people respond differently to HDL use? Some questions for you OP: have you experienced this only when IV Suboxone use is involved, or also sublingual alone?

To note, PWD generally takes longer than 45 minutes to resolve. What symptoms are you experiencing when this happens? Specifically I mean.
 
toothpastedog said:
Perhaps some people respond differently to HDL use? Some questions for you OP: have you experienced this only when IV Suboxone use is involved, or also sublingual alone?

To note, PWD generally takes longer than 45 minutes to resolve. What symptoms are you experiencing when this happens? Specifically I mean.
Click to expand...

Normally I would take around 2mg SL a few hours before IV bit this time I essentially did .5mg SL about 30 mins before the shot. This is the first time I had a reaction like this from IV bupe.

I have been pondering myself on it only lasting 45 mins before getting much better. Not 100% but a solid 65-75%. From my own experience and from what others have said this is not a long time at all. That said, lopermide is a strange drug when abused and that might have some effect on it. I really dont know though. It was definitely PWs but not nearly as bad as heroin/oxy/dilaudid PWs that I have experienced before. Ill go ahead and list symptoms: slight nausea, intense stomach cramps with immediate relief from constipation, headache, sweating and chills. The cramping and chills were the most noticeable. The headache continued for quite a while even after the other stuff got significantly better.

Also im assuming HDL is high dose loperamide or something siright? Not high density lipoprotein right?
 
Yes, high dose loperamide use. I have nothing to say about your cholesterol, except to eat your greens ;)
 
Hello, yea.. I have been back on Suboxone for almost a month, the last extended use of Suboxone was more than 2 years ago for about 6 months.
I'm on 8 mg of Suboxone to curb a love affair with skag and hydromorphone, I sometimes skip a dose of Suboxone and use my DOC, and save my dose of Suboxone that day.
I actually just kind of went through this today, this morning actually. I popped 96mg of loperamide on Tuesday night, well 3am Wednesday morning, so I skipped my Suboxone dose yesterday and went in to get my dose today, I was a little worried hearing of the potential horrible PWD that I may have encountered as I had to work today.
Well I put the 8mg Suboxone under my tongue, with a couple drops of vodka, as I always do for absorption, when I got to work, I can't say it was PWD or anything withdrawal related, I have been through many WD's, but I did feel pretty weird, almost negative, but easily bearable, and it only lasted about 45 minutes and now I feel great, so it sounds similar to you, but I'm back to %100 though, no complaints.
I don't use HDL chronically and just high dosed once this week, with my last high dose being months ago, so definitely not filled up with lope from chronic use.
So, it sounds similar other than the ROA for the Suboxone/ dose differences
Just my 2cents
 
Are the 4mg films any good? Somebody help me find a spot for this post as im sure this isn't the appropriate place or give me some feedback if you have any. I've been on the 8mg films for four years and they have been garbage lately. The doc may switch me to 4's as I take 12mg daily. 3 fours should be better that 3 halves of an 8 right? Am I gonna have issues with the switch. My 8's have been repeatedly going to shit for six months one week after I get them so this is my only option now.
 
Adsleeves said:
Are the 4mg films any good? Somebody help me find a spot for this post as im sure this isn't the appropriate place or give me some feedback if you have any. I've been on the 8mg films for four years and they have been garbage lately. The doc may switch me to 4's as I take 12mg daily. 3 fours should be better that 3 halves of an 8 right? Am I gonna have issues with the switch. My 8's have been repeatedly going to shit for six months one week after I get them so this is my only option now.
Click to expand...

I use the 2mg suboxone strips. I wasn't aware there was a 4mg strip. If you are taking 12mg then get the newish 12mg strips.
 
I split the 8's though. I take 4 mg three times a day. I don't want to take 12 mg at once. Im having problems with the 8's because of cutting them. Im not getting accurate doses because the bupe isn't spread evenly throughout the films. The 4's should be more accurate dosing since I only want 4mgs at a time.
 
Hey TPD,
You seem like you have a lot of knowledge on Lope and Suboxone (and you do too OP) so I wanted to ask a question here instead of starting my own thread.

I'm on day 7 of suboxone WD and I just took my second dose of Lope to combat the WD- I took 24mg. My question is:

Do you guys think Lope is just extending the WD process? Is it worth it to use as a WD aid? This is my second dose, first dose I took on day 3 and I took 40mg my first dose. I plan to make this my last time taking Lope because I have a feeling all I'm doing is just contributing to my addiction. Is there any difference between taking Lope and taking, say, Vicodin? I don't believe the "doesn't cross the BBB" nonsense... how could I possibly feel better (and maybe even a little high, albeit very minor) if it doesn't cross the BBB?

Anyways, TBD I know you are very knowledgeable on recovery and I wanted your expert opinion, and thank you OP for starting this thread cause it has helped me a lot.

Cheers,

PubNub
 
Taking hydrocodone would almost certainly cause you more problems if you are trying to move away from the habit forming aspect of opioid use (in another sense it would be safer, as its more active at less problematic doses compared to loperamide).

But I don't think using loperamide for a few days or a week is contributing to any substance use disorder, particularly if it's only being used to treat acute opioid withdrawal.
 
My guess is that 45min of PWD, induced via IV suboxone, is probably a byproduct of the naloxone.
 
MrPubNub said:
Do you guys think Lope is just extending the WD process? Is it worth it to use as a WD aid? This is my second dose, first dose I took on day 3 and I took 40mg my first dose. I plan to make this my last time taking Lope because I have a feeling all I'm doing is just contributing to my addiction. Is there any difference between taking Lope and taking, say, Vicodin? I don't believe the "doesn't cross the BBB" nonsense... how could I possibly feel better (and maybe even a little high, albeit very minor) if it doesn't cross the BBB.
Click to expand...


As far as BBB issue, this is my theory. Lopermide does cross the BBB but is immediately kicked out. Now i think that when you take high doses it is doing the same thing but since there is so much if it that the brain is constanly being bombarded with the drug. Meaning by the time it is knocked out then another one is right there to take its place. Taking vicodin would definitely just prolong the process and from my experience it would take far too much of it to make a difference. Waste of money imo. The lope is at least cheap and as far as i can tell, it is quite a bit stronger than other opiods. Even with a good tolerance it seems to break thru.


mostly-human said:
My guess is that 45min of PWD, induced via IV suboxone, is probably a byproduct of the naloxone.
Click to expand...

This might have some truth too it. Im doing some experimentation to try to get more info and stuff that relates to that idea. I will post when I come to a conclusion
 
I'm not sure if the IV ROA would have anything to do with tripping the naloxone to cause 45 min of PWD.
From what I've read here is that the Buprinorphine's affinty is much higher than the little bit of naloxone that is in the pills, I could be wrong I'm not %100 on that, and naloxone would last longer than 45 min, I think??
I had a weird feeling for about 45 min too, with sublingual administration.
Just another 2cents

I guess the results of the experimentation can help shed some light.
 
Weird though, as I have IV'd my Suboxone before without those effects, albeit not with loperamide in my system at the same time though
 
It is unlikely the naloxone is the cause of PWD - there is the issue of naloxone's lower affinity compared to buprenorphine and that I seem to remember someone posting that they had this issue with Subutex (buprenorphine without naloxone).
 
^^That's what I figured, maybe some type of reaction between the lope and bupe, or maybe the lope and naloxone??
I would think bupe would trump it all, but if it wasn't the naloxone causing the PWD and it was the bupe instead, the PWD would last longer I would assume
 
I guess if it takes bupe say? 45min , Im not sure on the time here? , and everyone is different, even with an IV ROA , to reach a level high enough to kick the lope off the receptors, and fill them with itself it may be the reaction of the two. I find IV Suboxone very mysterious
 
Ultimately we are all just speculating about anecdotal experiences, particularly as little known about the pharmaconetics of HDL and interactions with other opioids.
 
^^This is true...

....I actually just took my dose today, 8mgs sublingual Suboxone. I definitely didn't get the feeling I had Wednesday when I took my dose, I skipped yesterday, and last dose of HDL was Wednesday around 3am, I dosed Sub today at 1:50pm. So roughly 60 hours after I took the HDL, if that info helps
 
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