my experience using and tapering my huge kratom addiction (8ish years use, 4-5 daily)

[dumbstruck]

Howdy folks, long while since I've been here. Oh, how i miss thee kratom induced serenity.

Forewarnings: only a few days past main withdrawal as of now. And apologies but I will likely be slow responding but I shall do my best to check in every day or so for a bit.

Where to start... well i dose by tsp or tbsp despite having several scales. I leveled off around 12 tsp a dose, 2-4 times a day, around 2.5 to 3 years back. For each dose, so 24-48ish tsp daily. Last year it went up quite fast, peaking around 21 or 22 tsp toss and wash per dose. I waited a minimum of 4 hours between dosing, usually aiming for 6-8 and sometimes dosing 3.5 hours in.

Been using the same vendor for a long while and my understanding is it is good kratom but not mmm or hh in quality with their huge prices. I have averaged 150g a day, 1kg a week, for 1-1+ years. Puking became a regular event, happening once a week or so. For those curious company has been <snip>. I think that's alright to say...

Well no real health issues beyond the one I am about to mention. Hate to do so with all the ban kratom shit going around these days. I thank all those who signed with me to stop the previous ban!

Anyway. It does appear, so far, that kratom has been a notable factor in me having occasional seizures. I didn't know this until about 1.5 years back, but looking back, I have, echhhhhhh, alright honesty, 3 car crashes, from times I was on kratom. No memories of these and I am damn good at staying awake and a better than average driver. Well the third and last I drove to visit an old friend many miles away in Maine, seized in front of old friends, fled home shortly afterward as I felt embarrassed even though I know I shouldn't. Seized on the 7ish hour drive home. Thankfully (luckily) injuring nobody, including myself. In any of the 3 total car wrecks I am responsible for. Wear your seat belts!!!

I am guessing the seize in car thing, as they were all big dose kratom drives, and me loves long solo driving. Must be enjoying the ride too much! But no memories (remember hitting a deer just fine, no concussion diagnosis or the like. Catheter once, ooh much fun. So I didn't know I had any seizures until this last year.

I began my taper 12ish days ago, this morning being the first time I went past 24 hours between dosing with no significant withdrawal noticeable. I just took as little as possible as rarely as possible. Jumped down to 6ish tsp starting and ended taper with the last dose of 0 1, and before it 0.2g. The first 10 days I could not get past 12 hours without a dose to moderate the discomfort. Now I am fine 30 hours after a 0 1 tsp dose.

Well this may be premature to believe, but no seizures for a month or so now. They were once a week average before this, several times two in a day (oh sweet sweet gluttony). Feeling pretty good, considering the ridiculous amount of leaves from that tree I have eaten. No complaints, honestly. Cheeks might be a bit sunken, as I recall that a side effect. Can't say I have noticed yellow skin, though.

Surprisingly painless, despite shiver sweating between doses a handful of times. I expected much longer...

I would like to remind everyone that seizures have no single cause. As such, I believe the kratom just nudged me over a threshold. I most likely imbibe enough crap food and occasional drugs for those to likely be a factor. But I do believe now that excessive use makes seizures more likely.

All for now, I guess. I will try to answer any questions, again note I will check in once every day or two. Still lots of physiological changes due to no more absurd opiate doses all day every day. Cheers, my brothers (and sisters!). May you live long lives and never encounter such troubles.

 

[dumbstruck]

Bah. Edit not working on my phone here. I only dose in tsp/tbsp. So where I said 0.1 or 0.2g I meant tsp, not grams.

Puking only happened when I did two huge doses less than 6 hours apart. Didn't have much any trouble except the times I dosed 3.5-5 hours after eating the previous dose. Still good fun!! Also first car crash about 4 years ago. Seems to fit with the seizure kratom hypothesis from my perspective. I will be sure to chime in should I have another. Or should I go several more months with nome.

Apologies for brevity. Phone typing and all. Much love you beautiful community, you!

 

[AddictRecon]

Dumbstruck, I just posted a thread on how I dealt with withdrawal from an ounce a day kratom habit. tsp Toss n wash every few hours for a few years. I could never do more than an ounce a day, my body would forcibly reject it and I would violently vomit anything in my stomach right up.

Thank you for posting this and maybe you might review my thread, It may help you as I have successfully defeated Kratom, which turned out to be a nasty little monster I never thought actually existed.. Most people dont take the doses we do, so they naturally champion that Kratom is benign for the most part in terms of withdrawal, but the real heavy users know differently. This stuff, can and will put you through hell, it wont be anything as long as opiate withdrawal, but if this stuff gets you hooked, and you get too high on your dose like I was, then the surprise Kratom has to offer cannot be avoided.. This stuff almost cost me everything, and not because the kratom was expensive, but the things I did while on Kratom clouded my judgement to the point that everything kind of came crashing down in a crossroads kinda way.

Kratom, like anything else, when abused, will rob you of a life you are truly missing out on, and I hope people start to become aware of this.

 

[simco]

Thanks for your post, dumbstruck. I hope you'll keep us updated as you move forward. We've got a lot of folks on SL who are interested in kratom for various reasons, so I'm glad to get some details on the process of coming off of it.

I'm just curious...did you start, way back in the day, with a more typical dose? Or did you hit the ground running with those big doses?

 

[Stargazer]

I tried Kratom for opiate withdraw on several different occasions. No go for me

I found it incredibly difficult to ingest. I can't get past the horrible taste. Or maybe I could've if it helped at all. It did not help w withdrawal even a little. I took 20-22gms each time. I dosed twice a day each attempt.

Also, it msde me incredibly anxious One time while using it, I got dope the dane day and it overpowered the dope! Meaning, even the dope didn't help my anxiety. I guess I'm one of the people it doesn't help. After reading this, I'm grateful.

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. Hope you're well OP.

 

[AddictRecon]

I tried Kratom for opiate withdraw on several different occasions. No go for me

I found it incredibly difficult to ingest. I can't get past the horrible taste. Or maybe I could've if it helped at all. It did not help w withdrawal even a little. I took 20-22gms each time. I dosed twice a day each attempt.

Also, it msde me incredibly anxious One time while using it, I got dope the dane day and it overpowered the dope! Meaning, even the dope didn't help my anxiety. I guess I'm one of the people it doesn't help. After reading this, I'm grateful.

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. Hope you're well OP.

A local headshop near me is under investigation for synthetic marijuana compounds being mixed and sold in Kratom, I came across a batch of this stuff and the anxiety was some next level stuff.

Your experience with it also seems unusual because you would have been taking what I would consider above average doses, but 10 grams at a time would have made me puke. I was spacing out an ounce of Kratom per day over 6-8 doses I believe.

Taking too much Kratom in a sitting is the worst, it almost always affects you negatively.. Kind of a weird drug, at different doses it does different things. Higher doses induce lethargy, lower doses give an energy burst. Too much will make you insane lol.. Vomiting up 10 grams of Kratom will change your life... Its that terrible of an experience..

 

[Stargazer]

I meant 10-12gms per dosing. Sorry. Thank God it wasnt 20-22gms. I also got really nauseous from it. The anxiety was horrible!! Really up there. It

 

[AddictRecon]

I meant 10-12gms per dosing. Sorry. Thank God it wasnt 20-22gms. I also got really nauseous from it. The anxiety was horrible!! Really up there. It

Dont apologize, you clearly said 20 grams but twice a day, I kinda figured they were 10 gram doses, which even for an above average user should induce vomiting at the least, and paranoia at best.. lol I broke my doses into roughly 4-5 gram 'ish' doses, i never measured, kinda just took a teaspoon and got used to knowing how much did the trick, which happened to equal about an ounce a day, sometimes slightly under, sometimes slightly over.

max ever was 7 grams and I almost choked to death on my own vomit.... If you start sweating, and your mouth starts preparing to ward off the effects of stomach acid by salivating, then you have a short time to find a toilet and fast.. Keep water running so that in between gags you can get the taste of your own vomit out of your mouth, this helps.

ultimately my only advice is for people to get as far away from kratom as they possibly can, deceptively nasty little drug, I found out the hard way..

 

[dumbstruck]

Hello again! Sorry for the slow response but I thought a nice little vacation would help get my mind off things and I have been out of town until yesterday.

Again, apologies, but I never was much one for weighing doses. Teaspoons and tablespoons have been consistent enough for me, despite reading many warnings to the contrary.

One post says 10 grams was enough to make them vomit. I was this way myself for several years. Another asked if I started on heavy doses or started low. My maximum dose in the first year or so was 2 tablespoons (6 tsp). Even that would make me dizzy and often feel sick. It was mostly a regular increase in tolerance that led me to such massive doses. Excepting the big jump from 12tsp to 18ish tsp I mentioned in the OP.

As for me! I'm quite happy where I am! Urge to dose definitely becomes difficult at least once a day. Thus far I have been able to fight it, despite once or twice becoming quite close to ordering some more "for a once weekly dose" or some other such self-delusion. I don't notice a whole lot of increased energy or focus or the like, but I definitely am not as complacent sitting in a chair being lazy and reading/reflecting about the world with every last minute of my spare time. My urge to accomplish various projects and goals seems to be growing by every passing day.

I still wake up feeling like some sort of withdrawal. Cold but sweaty despite it being 75-80 degrees (up to 90 some days) where I currently live. I have attributed this to the fact I resist using air conditioning (in the hopes I save money by not becoming too used to room temperature. Afraid this hasn't really worked but it sounds good enough in theory to keep me trying... for years now. Hah.). So I quite often fall asleep with my window fan maxed out, both windows open, and a second box fan to help circulate the air coming through the fan. Too hot in the day and by 3 am definitely cold, thus my sleeping self curls up under my blanket until I am awoken normally or due to some particularly extreme feeling. I don't believe I mentioned but I no longer sleep in a bed. Fell out and bashed my brow on a nightstand corner, requiring several stitches, in one of my seizures. Thus I now sleep in a rather small and uncomfortable faux-leather recliner. Seems to work for keeping me from falling out if a seizure happens.

Well, still no seizures! That is worth a HUZZAH from my perspective! Urge has not diminished much at all, yet I am sure my resolve is slowly doing so. With a bit of luck and intentional distracting I believe I will be able to stay off for at least several months. Since I still have a positive view on kratom as a whole, I expect myself to go back eventually. But I am at least 50% confident that this experience will let me use far more sparingly. Or at least feel far more guilty if I am dosing daily, perhaps allowing me to change for the better before the SHTF (before it gets too bad). I am hoping for at least 2.5 - 3 months with no use. Most likely this view will have me go back and try some as soon as I hit 2.5-3 months, so for others I definitely recommend expecting to never have another dose if they wish to never use it regularly again. I suspect even if I don't feel an absolute need to take some more kratom that my gluttonous self will order some regardless, knowing I have met my minimum hopes.

Oh. My constipation has cleared! Hah! Took a good week-ish to see any notable improvement, and now it is down right strange to have normally shaped excrement. Sorry for those of you easily disgusted. Well, not too sorry. The world is often a dirty, disgusting place filled with the aftermath of humanity's less desirable tendencies. Get used to it! Were I not always trying not to use them, this would probably be an appropriate place for a smiley face emoticon/emoji.

I can't say going through a kg a week (obvious when checking and averaging my purchase history, this is an accurate figure for those in doubt) has left me with any other serious complaints. I have noticed nothing else negative from my use, and a reasonably sized list of things I found positive when using kratom 2+ times every day. It is worth saying I do not recall ever meeting anyone or even reading about anyone that has used these size doses with any regularity. I must be some sort of super hero! Oh, wait, super addict! (dun dah dah daaa!). This is partially the reason I felt posting was worthwhile to the community.

BTW. Apologies for the snipped part in the OP. I thought my allusion was easily obscure enough to keep anyone who did not have personal experience with the companies from discerning any information. I even tried to google using the info in my post to see if it could lead to the companies, but found nothing. Many apologies. I know mentioning vendors is bad but it would seem more helpful to quite a lot of people if they could use their experiences to compare my usual vendors quality versus the best and worst out there. Ah well. You still hold a special place in my heart, BL. Now.... everyone who is reading this is required to have a good day and have a surprisingly great thing happen to them in the next 2 weeks.OK? Required!!

Until later, brothers (of both sexes) from other mothers. I will continue checking in and reporting.

 

[simco]

^^
Don't sweat it about the snipped part, dumbstruck...I redacted that out of, as they say, an abundance of caution. Mostly I'm just glad you're leading this kick-ass thread!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I agree, this is great. I find that with a small kratom habit it takes a week for the physical symptoms to clear, perhaps two for my mood to begin to stabilize. It's not easy, but you can do it! How many days has it been for you now?

The physical symptoms clearing is such a joy in and of itself though

 

[dumbstruck]

Hello everybody. Boy I have an odd history of posts...

To the point. I have moved states (NY to DE), and have now settled a bit. I am happy to report I am completely off kratom. No withdrawal symptoms in a week without use.

I still found myself using 1.5 to 3 tsp every 4 or 5 days as some way to placate myself... Imagining I was getting intoxicated. But effects were never high enough to notice. Please note my 20 tsp doses toward the end also provided no euphoria. It managed to fill my addictive void but did not give a pleasurable high or a nod.

I have since, probably two months now, been overly abusing alcohol. I don't know how much this affects my stomach's ability to deal with toss and wash kratom. But I often now get nauseated from a single tablespoon (3 tsp). I don't know what caused the change in my ability to stomach kratom.

I started a ketogenic diet, known (outside of most doctors, as they only have a few hours of nutrition experience in their many years of college),
..... known to fix seizures if done for 6 to 12 months. Usually for a good 10 to 15 years.

Anyway, I am without seizures after about a month after starting the diet. And I am almost a year into it. With once a week cheat days where I eat far too many carbohydrates. Kratom was definitely a major cause of my seizures, but I believe the diet will fix most problems anyway.

If I may digress (despite always making long posts), I don't think most people will have this problem. I took around 20 tsp every 3 to 4 hours every time I had a long drive... It took me four car crashes, completely totaled cars, to recognize it was seizures that was causing my accidents. I am endlessly thankful I preferred driving from midnight to 6am, so I never hurt another person. Or even hit another car. Seizures are good for crashes (wearing seat belt), because you don't brace yourself. You are essentially limp, so the belt and air bag does its job and you don't break any limbs.

I've had two best friends die in car crashes in my life. Wear your damn seat belt.. If someone doesnt want to, abruptly brake and make them smash their head into the head rest. After two or three lessons they will never forget.

I have not had a seizure for around 20x my average. My average when it was worst anyway. The diet works with wonders. I am completely off regular kratom use. For the last month I have been taking 1.5 to two tsp twice a day. Mostly to alleviate cold sweats in my legs. And now I don't need any to feel fine.. Hooray.

Not sure what else to say... But I'll probably edit or add another post as something comes to mind. So much love, bluelight. You not only helped make me what I am but also saved me from any major mistake. Keep it up. Love all. Keep those spirits up!

 

[dumbstruck]

For what it is worth... Kratom worked beautifully to fill any desire to get high. I managed two plus years off other drugs (outside weed and alcohol with friends once a week or less). Since I have stopped use my desire for other, fondly remembered highs has returned. Thus my extensive drinking as of late.

I would advise caution. Though in the same breath, I would say a regular Kratom addiction may be a great trade off if you are having addiction troubles with other drugs. I have always been one to experiment wildly, and binge for two or three weeks followed by an abrupt stop of use. But I found being addicted to Kratom to make me happy and functional without any other drug use.

It may be a trade off you are willing to make. And it may be a problem you find yourself in. Please take caution.

 

[dumbstruck]

For what it is worth... Kratom worked beautifully to fill any desire to get high. I managed two plus years off other drugs (outside weed and alcohol with friends once a week or less). Since I have stopped use my desire for other, fondly remembered highs has returned. Thus my extensive drinking as of late.

I would advise caution. Though in the same breath, I would say a regular Kratom addiction may be a great trade off if you are having addiction troubles with other drugs. I have always been one to experiment wildly, and binge for two or three weeks followed by an abrupt stop of use. But I found being addicted to Kratom to make me happy and functional without any other drug use.

It may be a trade off you are willing to make. And it may be a problem you find yourself in. Please take caution.

Edit: by the way... I have found all my recent doses of Kratom to cause a severe froth / frothing problem in my stomach. Like the powder let's off gas after ingested. I have puked many times off 3 or less tsp and made a big pile of bubbly vomit. If I can burp it relieves the pressure. So I believe it to be a gas issue. And for clarification I have not dosed every day for about two months now. Sorry I was unclear.

 

[dumbstruck]

For what it is worth... Kratom worked beautifully to fill any desire to get high. I managed two plus years off other drugs (outside weed and alcohol with friends once a week or less). Since I have stopped use my desire for other, fondly remembered highs has returned. Thus my extensive drinking as of late.

I would advise caution. Though in the same breath, I would say a regular Kratom addiction may be a great trade off if you are having addiction troubles with other drugs. I have always been one to experiment wildly, and binge for two or three weeks followed by an abrupt stop of use. But I found being addicted to Kratom to make me happy and functional without any other drug use.

It may be a trade off you are willing to make. And it may be a problem you find yourself in. Please take caution.

Edit: by the way... I have found all my recent doses of Kratom to cause a severe froth / frothing problem in my stomach. Like the powder let's off gas after ingested. I have puked many times off 3 or less tsp and made a big pile of bubbly vomit. If I can burp it relieves the pressure. So I believe it to be a gas issue. And for clarification I have not dosed every day for about two months now. Sorry I was unclear. My old doses of 20+ grams I would take about 5 tbsp (15tsp) and a few minutes later take 5 to 8 or 9 tsp. And I never had a problem with this frothing. Nausea was normal but it was a completely different kind of nausea.

 

[CfZrx]

Excepting the big jump from 12tsp to 18ish tsp I mentioned in the OP.

This is the ultimate advertisement for keeping your dose at 2 tsp, max 3 tsp once a day!

 

[dumbstruck]

Hello again.

Still off kratom use. Not even using it once weekly to placate myself. However, as I mentioned, alcohol has become a regular thing in my life. I will go days without and then spend 4 or 5 days drinking alone. Often within a couple hours of waking up.

In my defense I almost always sleep in small batches. 2 three or four hour sleeps. So I wake up not hungover but still a bit drunk, and it is easy to rationalize some more.

I bring this up because I realized both kratom and alcohol act as NMDA antagonists. I have always been part of the small portion of humans that endlessly love dissociatives (aka NMDA antagonists).

I used kratom for 2+ years to be happy not using other drugs... And now kratom is gone and I have rapidly become an alcoholic. I think my whole life since embracing drug use has ALWAYS had a regular NMDA antagonist dose weekly.


Does anyone have any insight on kratom or alcohol's effect as a dissociative? Or am I fooling myself thinking that NMDA antagonism is the common thread here?