Misc Fioricet (butalbital) and kratom

[vostochnik]

Hello,

I can't seem to find any information on the internet about the combination of (a small amount!) of barbiturates with kratom. I know that barb + opiate combos are somewhat common, but since you can't overdose on kratom, I gave this combo a go.

Butalbital seems to potentiate even kratom alkaloids immensely, about twice their strength. I don't like to take Fioricet often, but when I do, the combination feels great.

Before I get replies about the dangers of barbiturates, I am aware. I typically take 3 tablets (50mg each) for recreation. About three times per year. I do suffer from seasonal allergy induced migraines, but since a 30-count prescription will last me 4-5 months, even if I take a few extra one or two days, I do not feel like habituation or dependency is an issue. I have been prescribed this medication for about two years. I do not recommend combining barbiturates with any other substance, and I want to discourage taking large amounts of any barbiturate. Butalbital is pretty weak, at least compared to phenobarbital, but it is not to be fucked with. When I was first prescribed it, I took it three days out of two weeks, and I felt slight withdrawal symptoms. So, even though this post is about barbiturates with kratom, I do not encourage abuse of barbiturates at all, by themselves, and especially combined. There is a reason that butalbital is the only one of probably 15 different barbiturates that is still used with any frequency.

I guess the point is that butalbital seems to reset my tolerance to kratom for about a week, maybe a little less. I have scoliosis, and I take kratom for the chronic pain. (I am not interested in seeing a doctor to get pain pills for this condition, although physicians have offered.) So, while not very practical in terms of how often one can use it, I find this combo exceptional.

Peace, love, safety.

vostochnik

 

[Speed King]

Between the caffeine and stimulant effects in the kratom, you shouldnt​ have an issue. I would keep doses low to gauge any additive effects.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I imagine all that stuff would rather tax the liver.

 

[I-amoff4life]

You'll be ok. All I know is that I've researched kratom plus opiates for days. Half of the people say it's a great combo and they go together nicely. The other half say it eith blocks some of the effects or has no effect. Not sure which is true. As for safety you should be ok as kratom is not a crazy strong resp depressant. Peace,

 

[psy997]

I imagine all that stuff would rather tax the liver.

This is what I'd worry about. If you do try the combination, A) report back please so we know how it went and can know and B) drink tons of water to ease the strain on your liver/kidneys.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Too much water can end up taxing those organs too though. Definitely drink water, but do so basically normally (if you don't drink the recommended daily amount of water, drink more than you usually would).

It would be great to hear how it goes OP. I doubt you'll have any issues, I just wanted to point out that you probably don't want to make a habit of regularly using this combo.

 

[aspiringchemist]

My wife is prescribed fioricet for migraines. I use kratom daily in high doses (10-15g dose) and have taken 1 or 2 butalbital on many occasions. It synergizes nicely.

I take a benzodiazepine so I do have a tolerance to GABA drugs.

This is no different than kratom with any barb, just be aware of caffeine and apap as others have stated.

I have not studied this thoroughly but butalbital is said to be an inducer of the cpy enzyme. Theoretically this could alter the metabolism of kratom alkaloids and therefore altering the experience or subjective strength of kratom.

 

[vostochnik]

Here is the extremely late report (sorry, people):

Number one: Because I was working at a job that caused minimal stress to my spine or upper back, I wasn't taking kratom often. I don't really take it for recreation because the job I have now requires a lot of stress on the back, and I take kratom every 9 hour shift on my feet. So, back then, 8.5g of Red Vein Thai without cat's claw, even, was enough to give me a nice little buzz.

Number two: This was during my honeymoon phase with butalbital. It is still as effective at stopping migraines, but the tolerance to barbs is insanely long, at least recreationally.

Anyway, this was a great combo. I would compare it to maybe 25mg of methadone with a shot of vodka and some benzo effects. (*Side note: the human brain has a specific receptor site for barbiturates in the GABA system, even though bartiburates are not found in nature.*) When I was ready to sleep, I took 1/3 of my daily Valium dose for insomnia. That wrapped up the experience into a soft, peaceful, sleepy phase. I slept like a baby and awoke at a decent hour (I work nights). And don't worry, I drink pretty much nothing but water. 3 large bottles refilled with tap water every day.

 

[Mycophile]

Between the caffeine and stimulant effects in the kratom, you shouldnt​ have an issue. I would keep doses low to gauge any additive effects.

Does Kratom have caffeine in it?

I mean I know it's related to the coffee plant technically, but I have never heard that it actually has any caffeine in it specifically.

Is that what you meant or was he also combining it with coffee?

That would be interesting if I didn't know there was caffeine in it, but also quite annoying, since I am trying to cut down on my caffeine intake while still taking Kratom 3 days a week lol.

 

[Mycophile]

Here is the extremely late report (sorry, people):

Number one: Because I was working at a job that caused minimal stress to my spine or upper back, I wasn't taking kratom often. I don't really take it for recreation because the job I have now requires a lot of stress on the back, and I take kratom every 9 hour shift on my feet. So, back then, 8.5g of Red Vein Thai without cat's claw, even, was enough to give me a nice little buzz.

Number two: This was during my honeymoon phase with butalbital. It is still as effective at stopping migraines, but the tolerance to barbs is insanely long, at least recreationally.

Anyway, this was a great combo. I would compare it to maybe 25mg of methadone with a shot of vodka and some benzo effects. (*Side note: the human brain has a specific receptor site for barbiturates in the GABA system, even though bartiburates are not found in nature.*) When I was ready to sleep, I took 1/3 of my daily Valium dose for insomnia. That wrapped up the experience into a soft, peaceful, sleepy phase. I slept like a baby and awoke at a decent hour (I work nights). And don't worry, I drink pretty much nothing but water. 3 large bottles refilled with tap water every day.

What is cat's claw and does it potentiate Kratom?

Are there any safety issues with it and can it be safely combined with SSRIs and benzos?

 

[Speed King]

Does Kratom have caffeine in it?

I mean I know it's related to the coffee plant technically, but I have never heard that it actually has any caffeine in it specifically.

Is that what you meant or was he also combining it with coffee?

That would be interesting if I didn't know there was caffeine in it, but also quite annoying, since I am trying to cut down on my caffeine intake while still taking Kratom 3 days a week lol.

The caffeine is in the Fioricet combination pill. Kratom has a structure similar to Yohimbine.

 

[treezy z]

I've taken up to 5 or 6 fioricet and felt nothing (and even that amount probably has too much of whatever NSAID is in the pill, forget which it is.)