PiHKAL and Chemistry Education

[Forever Jung]

I finally finished reading PiHKAL front to back, after a solid 15+ years of knowing and loving psychedelcs. I'm many months clean now from a horrible opioid addiction (thank you 1P-LSD) and I've been feeling motivated again to improve myself. I would very much like to pursue an education in chemistry/pharmacology, but have limited financial means as I'm still in early recovery. I currently work a menial service job and live off tips.

I was just a year away from getting a [sweet degree], and just about to get my [redacted] certification when I let myself cross that line where I could no longer function as a student and addict simultaneously. It's been about 10 years now since my last university class, although I never stopped learning.

I guess my question to you all would be...Is it worth it to take free online chemistry classes (MIT/FU Berlin/Alison/Etc) while I struggle to save up $$ for tuition at an accredited university? I've had some chemistry before and it seems like the lab component is critical to learning the skills required to work in the field. Any thoughts/suggestions on how I should better myself coming out of the fog?


One Love
F&L

 

[Solipsis]

I think either way it'll be expensive to do right... but yeah an online course couldn't hurt but I would check out Neuroscience & pharm forum on books to learn from (should be a sticky?), like you would get in a uni (there too you build up the level of difficulty gradually although it is integrated in a curriculum and combined with better foundation in maths and physics of course), then find a cheap way to get for example outdated (previous, but not TOO outdated!) presses of such books like from ex-chemistry students or some in pdf form and combine it with practice you could do at home again by starting with the easy and safe stuff and the ones that don't require too special or expensive glassware or equipment, maybe see if you can get old glassware through the right kind of people mediating in labs that shut down etc (of course some glassware is total loss and unusable). Join a chem forum as well i guess..

There are limitations to all this, to how well you can judge progress in your skill and handling of safety, lack of analysis of what you're doing... so eventually you're going to have to use that saved up money to find ways to do those things in legit ways in order to know what you're doing, keep making progress and not hurt yourself. For example you learn how you can't handle which chemicals without e.g. a fumehood you *could* build yourself and other things that may be required for that... Always stay a few steps below your safety limits because of inevitable errors without proper guidance.

I am not endorsing doing it all without proper education, at some point things just get irresponsible... but on the other hand I don't think you couldn't do anything at all if you're really committed...

If you would start with that budget way and study from books a bit and talk to enough other people about doing this, you should be able to judge along the way what is a realistic way to continue if any.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

what is the end goal? I could think of thousands of reasons to tell you this is a bad idea in terms of practicality but I wouldn't even know where to start. Just do a google search for "job prospects for scientists/chemists" and that should start to scare you quite a bit. Also realize that that chances of doing anything even remotely connected to neuropharmacology are almost none. I can think of only about 6 professors or Principal investigators studying this topic in the US, multiply that 6 by about ten or 20 and you have the number of slave wage labor positions available in the US conducting research in this filed...not very good odds or job security.

drugs are a great hobby, but they should remain just that and not try to be made professional careers of. I did the exact thing you are suggested and quickly realized that pursing the psychotropic drug angle was a bad idea on multiple fronts. sorry to rain on your parade but its my opinion having gone down the same road.

 

[Solipsis]

Don't know about the fucked up ness of the american job market, but here having an actual uni chemistry sort of education can very easily get you jobs in various sectors like also banks etc. It's about the analytical skill involved that is sought after for many kinds of consultancy etc etc.
Agreed I would forget about working in sought after field of expertise like psychopharm...

If it is for fascination of chemistry in general that is different. Someone just said in one of the social threads that chemistry is an example of something much better a qualification than liberal arts.

I don't even know what kind of education would give job security in the US then... : O

 

[TheAppleCore]

I guess my question to you all would be...Is it worth it to take free online chemistry classes (MIT/FU Berlin/Alison/Etc) while I struggle to save up $$ for tuition at an accredited university? I had some chemistry before and it seems like the lab component is critical to learning the skills required to work in the field. Any thoughts/suggestions on how I should better myself coming out of the fog?

I haven't much experience with other online education platforms, but I will say that lately I've been getting a lot of mileage out of khanacademy.org. I've been studying basic chemistry and neurophysiology.

Also, I like your username, Forever Jung. :D

 

[Forever Jung]

Frankly, I think I am trying to transform an unhealthy obsession with drugs into something that can be positive in my life, and the lives of others. When I quit opioids, it felt like a big piece of me went missing. The hollow/empty feeling still has not left. I believe it is because my life lacks purpose. I feel like I am wasting the blessing of intellect that was given to me. I want a thinking job.

Even when I was strung out I was able to succeed in educating myself in things like fluid dynamics and welding enough that I was able to start a company that made closed-loop extractors for the MMJ community. It was a wild success until state laws changed and I sold the business. The point is, I know I have it in me to do anything I am properly motivated to do.

I realize that a career in psychedelic research is fantasy, but is it so far fetched to think that I could educate myself into a career at a pharma house like Lilly or Pfizer doing bleeding edge research on whatever class of chemicals they'd pay me to study?



PS: I met a gentleman from NL yesterday at work and it reminded me of you Solipsis! Thanks for the reply!

(thanks to all of you really)

 

[TheAppleCore]

I realize that a career in psychedelic research is fantasy, but is it so far fetched to think that I could educate myself into a career at a pharma house like Lilly or Pfizer doing bleeding edge research on whatever class of chemicals they'd pay me to study?

Psychedelic research is picking up steam lately. Maybe by the time you've completed your education, there will be a place for you in the field? And, sure you could secure a career in big pharma doing research on random pharmaceuticals, but would that give you the sense of purpose that you seek?

 

[Forever Jung]

Here is the learning materials stickythread on the sci/tech forum.

Psychedelic research is picking up steam lately. Maybe by the time you've completed your education, there will be a place for you in the field? And, sure you could secure a career in big pharma doing research on random pharmaceuticals, but would that give you the sense of purpose that you seek?

It would sure be a good place to start. Shulgin's experience at dow chemical comes to mind

Shulgin's professional activities continued to lean in the direction of psychopharmacology, furthered by his personal experiences with psychedelics. But during this period he was unable to do much independent research. His opportunity for further research came in 1961 after his development of Zectran, the first biodegradable pesticide, a highly profitable product. In his book PIHKAL, Shulgin limits his pesticide days at Dow Chemical to one sentence in 978 pages. Dow Chemical Company, in return for Zectran's valuable patent, gave Shulgin great freedom. During this time, he created and patented drugs when Dow asked, and published findings on other drugs in journals such as Nature and the Journal of Organic Chemistry. Eventually, Dow Chemical requested that he no longer use their name on his publications.^[7]

Just work for big pharma until I achieve "fuckoff status" and am allowed a clandestine drugs lab in my back yard lol

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I

Go read the blogs that pharma researchers (and mostly ex researchers) tend to frequent and they will be glad to tell you everything u need to know about why this is a horrible idea. Chemjobber and "in the pipeline" are good places to start.

I would go into psychiatry if u have this interest. Big money. Big demad. High job security ...basically the total opposite of research.

 

[Forever Jung]

I've seen a lot of things on bluelight get called bad ideas lol, but I never imagined pursuing an education would be on that list!

 

[Inzo]

The University of Irvine Cali has whole semester Org Chem lectures on youtube from a couple different professors that i find are similar as real classes. Of course there are other numerous all kinds if lectures that i think are beneficial.

 

[Solipsis]

I would go into psychiatry if u have this interest. Big money. Big demad. High job security ...basically the total opposite of research.

Talk about unrealistic... 'only' have to study medicine and specialize in psychiatry... How many tips is that kind of tuition?

Again, I don't know about the ins and outs of the American job market but a good point of Lucid's is that it is worth separating fascination and hobby from realistic education and career paths. If the job market for chemists is that terrible then maybe you should make it only a hobby and just do some extractions and work your way up (again, minding the limitations for safety) and find an alternative 'thinking career' (maybe IT?), if it would be a decent qualification then perhaps there is something similar to what translates to "higher career education" here which the level right below college and is also shorter and possibly more affordable per year as well... it is not the really academic kind but still decent.

In the pipeline is funny as hell! I thought it quit/moved or something?

 

[Lopeism]

Does anyone know where I could sell my signed copies of PiHKaL, TiHKaL, and The Shulgin Index? I'd like someone with the same love for psychoactives as I have to be the next owner but at the same time would like to be reimbursed the true value of these special books

 

[Solipsis]

Why not just eBay, setting your price but enable "best offer"? Surely it will be psy lovers that cough up that dough...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Talk about unrealistic... 'only' have to study medicine and specialize in psychiatry... How many tips is that kind of tuition?
ki

Seems better than a 5 to 7 year PhD plus a 5 year posdoc..all while working 60 to 80 hrs per week. This is what it takes these days to become a pharma research scientist with dismal job security...and that's assuming u your research academically is succesful and u went to a top tier school.

So OP ...u are looking about about 14 years of academics ahead of you to land a pharma job that will lay u off on a whim for sales reps bonuses.

---

Medicine seems like a cakewalk compared to that

...getting masters is a much better option these days ....and they make almost as much as the PhDs...still need to publish research and get killer grades at a legit uni. Online classes and such will be scffed at.

Research science nis highly competitive in the US institutions u are competing with mostly top Chinese ppl here on visas and they all work 70 to 80 hrs a week like nothing....no Xmas vacation. No sundays. U will be the one white guy with a lab. Of 20 other Asians that straight up slave like beasts

 

[Solipsis]

It's not like that at all here... sure it takes plenty of work but doing chemistry should be a doable career here. Medicine alone and certainly with specialization is afaik very hard pretty much everywhere and for the best and especially the persistent ones.

Sorry to hear things are fucked up in the US, but none of this sounds like a cakewalk especially not if you wanna do something advanced and fulfilling AND have job security, in particular after having failed a study. If it was that easy, Americans wouldn't be having such problems?

I mean: very fair warning basically about making your plans not only realistic but i guess S.M.A.R.T. and pulling something off like this might require a financial miracle and/or a life changing event that makes you into a functional workaholic of sorts... but it's up to FJ whether he wants an only slightly less hardcore career plan he might not be *that* interested in (despite the clever username), or to just manage expectations and do something else with interest in chemistry.

You don't just go work at Dow, no... let alone be given a lot of freedom in what you want to research.

It's not the education that is a bad idea, but having unrealistic expectations and basing a career plan on that is.

I flunked out of college (chemistry, i finished most of my BSc but not all, before shit happened remotely like with FJ) and my options are limited now. Am finally able to live without having to move now and can also finally save a bit, but I don't think it is wise for me to dream about some extensive education and still ending up in chemistry academics or something. I'll be happy if I can use my analytical skill and creativity in my future job (aiming for a programming traineeship now).
For me limitations have shown to be disorders though unlike the job market / equity limitations in the US...

 

[Forever Jung]

I think my best course of action is to pursue something that I have significant life experience in already. As fate would have it, I was literally offered 2 jobs today extracting cannabis at licensed facilities. One was the guy I sold my extractor business to. The other, the manager of my go-to dispensary walked outside and caught me at the red light to see if I was interested in running his plants for him because he always hears me bullshitting with the budtenders there. I don't have any felonies, so all I have to do is get my industry support badge for like $70 and I can go to work...I got away from that line of work a couple years ago for fear of serious legal problems but this offers a safe, legal pathway towards a career doing something I truly love.


God damn I love 2CB, have been insufflating every mg lately, but this time I smashed up an ondansetron tab and mixed in 30mg of the HCl and parachuted the whole shebang. Just starting to feel a bit fancy as my fingers are clickity clickity clickin away... off to enjoy the night, love you guys and thank you for the insightful, no-bullshit replies


One
FJ

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It's all free in the US once u pass undergrad...actually u get paid 25 to 30 USD a year to earn a graduate degree in chemistry

 

[Inzo]

Isnt the ever evolving world and especially today's technology built on chemistry and physics? It looks to be consistently growing. Plus just getting offered a job dealing with the chemistry side of marijuana kind of proves it is easier than some people make it out to be.

 

[Thomas Davie]

I finally finished reading PiHKAL front to back, after a solid 15+ years of knowing and loving psychedelcs. I'm ~6 months clean now from a horrible opioid addiction (thank you 1P-LSD) and I've been feeling motivated again to improve myself. I would very much like to pursue an education in chemistry/pharmacology, but have limited financial means as I'm still in early recovery. I currently work a menial service job and live off tips.

I was just a year away from getting a bachelor of science degree in aviation (pilot), and just about to get my flight instructor certification when I let myself cross that line where I could no longer function as a student and addict simultaneously. It's been about 10 years now since my last university class, although I never stopped learning.

I guess my question to you all would be...Is it worth it to take free online chemistry classes (MIT/FU Berlin/Alison/Etc) while I struggle to save up $$ for tuition at an accredited university? I had some chemistry before and it seems like the lab component is critical to learning the skills required to work in the field. Any thoughts/suggestions on how I should better myself coming out of the fog?


One Love
F&L

I've got a chem degree, 4 years of pharmacology and 28 yrs + of lab experience. I'll say this - 'it is always worth it to continue to educate yourself in this field as much as you can'.

With limited financial resources, taking free online courses is a start. When you can afford it, occasional 1 on 1 tutoring can help you get through some rough spots. At some point, depending on how confident you feel, challenging for permission to take a course (that you can afford, but maybe don't have the specific prerequisites for) could be an option.

Yes, working in a lab can be very valuable or indispensable for learning some actual skills; synthetic organic chemistry was something that I learned as theory first. Learning how not to kill myself in a lab or to quickly recover from a mistake is something that will take hands on experience.

What I would do is try to ask for permission from a college prof to sit in on chemistry classes. At the first/second year level, the classes may be so large that you can just blend in.

This last piece of advice is doable, but you need to find a good prof. Sit in on classes or receive permission to do so, and ask to take the exams and have them graded. The worst a prof can do is say no. They may say yes, and you might get an idea of how a formal chemical education fits with you.

Go for it man. Better living through chemistry!

Tom